why do we "upgrade" to silicone hoses?

Reading through a thread in sprockets I saw folks recommending silicone hoses for fuel lines. I thought I remembered that silicone wasn't rated for fuel so I went to gates website to doublecheck. Nope, none of their silicone hoses are rated for fuel and all of them carry a warning that they allow 10-15% more loss to water permeation than regular rubber hoses.

As far as I can tell their only benefit is temperature resistance at extremes the average car will never see, yet silicone hose sets are touted as an important upgrade.

Is this just another case of they look cool and modern so we pay extra money for them? As a millwright they were never recommended when spec'ing either coolant or heating lines.

What am I missing?

I use them as replacement for cooling lines for longevity. I'd never consdier using them for fuel

People forget that nearly everything is EDPM now and lasts almost forever?

Interesting, I've only ever known of using silicon hoses for cooling. I'd use rubber or SS for fuel.

My question is more towards why we even use it for cooling. When one of the largest manufacturers of silicone and rubber hoses doesn't even recommend it for that use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSl0URba_ho&feature=youtube_gdata_player

While I believe the silicone hoses are more durable than rubber for coolant. I wonder if the more ridged silicone transmits the vibration of the engine to the stationary elements like plastic radiators? I helped a buddy upgrade to silicone and they sure seemed a LOT less compliant.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: People forget that nearly everything is EDPM now and lasts almost forever?

This.

I've only ever had one coolant hose fail in the past fifteen years and that was because something rubbed through it.

Silicone cooling hoses are not only slick and don't grip very well, but can be cut through by crappy hose clamps.

(But they're BLUE! That's different than stock. That means they must be better!)

Well, silicone vacuum lines seem to work well on the RX7. Wouldn't use them on anything else though.

GM put green silicone coolant hoses with special clamps on every 94-96 Caprice cop car... they still looked brand new and came right off like they were installed a week earlier when i parted out my 94 with 227,000 miles on it back in 2004.

i think they still put silicone hoses on all their police spec vehicles to this day, but i might be wrong..

The only silicone hose I've ever used was for an oil return line on a turbo car. The regular rubber hose would get hard and leak after about a year on the car.

My POS 2005 Impala Police car has regular rubber hoses. It is basically a rental car with lights and a cage though so I am not suprised.

ditchdigger wrote: My question is more towards why we even use it for cooling. When one of the largest manufacturers of silicone and rubber hoses doesn't even recommend it for that use. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSl0URba_ho&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Yuuuup - I put silicone (RED!!) coolant hoses on my WRX when I was 21. They always leaked/seeped a bit of coolant, no matter what you did. Never again.

Replacement rubber coolant hoses are $7-10 bucks each. One set for the car and one set in the spares box is less than 1/5th the cost of fancy-pants silicone and guarantees that you will never be sidelined by a stupid coolant hose.

To add to the argument, I'd wager that most rubber hoses are built to higher QA standards than 90% of the mad tyte blue/red silicone crap that's out there.

in the "hose" world EPDM is rated to 250dgF and silicone is rated to 450dgF. EPDM is an acceptable rubber for ethylene glycol. silicone is cool? not sure

I thought silicone was just for implants... who puts it in their "hose"?

In reply to novaderrik:

9C1 green hoses were the bomb. Factory weird.

In reply to Hungary Bill:

You can find pics on the internet I hear.

To add to the argument, I'd wager that most rubber hoses are built to higher QA standards than 90% of the mad tyte blue/red silicone crap that's out there.

How much are you willing to wager???

I spent 5 years working for the "Fluid and Air Delivery Systems" division of what was that time, one of the largest OEM suppliers.

You would be amazed at how crappy the OEM parts are built...

I love the high grade silicone heater hoses that they sell at my local Parker hose store. They have a black liner, and a different color outer layer which is usually grey or blue. They are made specifically to work with push lock hose fittings, but they will work with regular hose barbs too.

I'm guessing that these are completely different than the silicone hoses that you guys are talking about?

I do like silicon vacuum hoses, but can't bring myself to pay that much for them.

I have a couple silicone hoses, but that's because they're supplying coolant to/from the turbo, and it gets a little toasty over there.

I think it's one of those upgrades that becomes necessary only after you've completed all the real upgrades, but still want to spend money.

I think some years of P71's came with them from the factory.

grafmiata wrote:

To add to the argument, I'd wager that most rubber hoses are built to higher QA standards than 90% of the mad tyte blue/red silicone crap that's out there.

How much are you willing to wager??? I spent 5 years working for the "Fluid and Air Delivery Systems" division of what was that time, one of the largest OEM suppliers. You would be amazed at how crappy the OEM parts are built...

given the numbers of shiny new cars i see clogging up the bays for warranty repairs every time i'm in a car dealership's service department, i would not be the least bit amazed at how crappy oem parts are built.

The only place I use them is the cooling system on the Radical. It's all manner of twists and turns and all the hoses are short sections that connect beaded aluminum tubes. Plus the whole system is 1", so silicone parts from amazon were the easy and fast way forward.

I wonder how many "upgraded" cars have not used the correct gear clamps? I did not know there was a difference until one of my friends made that mistake and he cooked his engine. The gear clamp sliced through the hose like it was melted butter.

grafmiata wrote:

To add to the argument, I'd wager that most rubber hoses are built to higher QA standards than 90% of the mad tyte blue/red silicone crap that's out there.

How much are you willing to wager??? I spent 5 years working for the "Fluid and Air Delivery Systems" division of what was that time, one of the largest OEM suppliers. You would be amazed at how crappy the OEM parts are built...

$1,000?

I'll buy five random silicone hoses from Internetz-based parts companies and five identical hoses from Napa/Autozone. Guess who's going to turn more laps without an issue?