I've had a mixture of good and bad experiences with dealerships that sell new cars, although I was always in there for used cars. I once bought a Focus from a Ford dealer (edited to add - it was Lou Sobh Ford in Decatur, GA) where everything went smoothly: The salesman let me wander around the lot until I found something I was interested in, then we sat down and I explained I'd be paying with a check and a trade in, no financing. We worked out a price that was acceptable for both of us, and the F&I guy seemed content to just take the check and save his time for customers he could actually make money off. I was in and out of that office in five minutes. Apparently some of the finance guys do get that it's better for everyone around to just keep the deal moving.
Then there was another Ford dealership (ironically named Courtesy Ford in Conyers, Georgia but their courtesy only extends as far as the sign) with ultra pushy salesmen who kept trying to get me to test drive things I specifically told them I had zero interest in. If I'd been in a shiny happy person mood and didn't have my wife with me, I'd have been tempted to take all the cars they pushed on me out for long test drives, then explain at the end of the drive that the car was totally unsuited for me for the same reasons I stated before driving them. Then those guys called me a week later asking me if I was still interested! I asked to be transferred to their sales manager, got her voice mail, and left her a long explanation of why having salesmen who blatantly ignore customers' requests and needs is not going to sell cars, does not contribute to a good customer service experience, and does not live up to the dealership's name.
Also bought an Isuzu Amigo from a Nissan dealer where they first quoted a price that was about $2000 higher than the price they were advertising on the Internet, charged me $250 to etch the VIN on the glass and did not actually do this, and otherwise were a real nuisance to deal with. The final price still came out agreeable, but the experience was far worse at the Ford dealer, and those guys definitely aren't getting any repeat business or referrals from me.
plance1 wrote:
I read a couple pages of these posts but not all of them. You guys who monkey around with this test drive nonsense are just setting yourself up for a miserable day. If you know you want a specific car, why do you need a test drive? If you don't know if you like a car and you need a test drive to convince yourself that you do, you're as bad and as indecisive as 99% of the buying public. But if you insist...
Step 1: Call local dealer, ask for the sales manager. Step 2: Tell him you are willing to come in but you're not going to buy that day. Ask him if he understands and agrees. Tell him you want to take a test drive of a car and if he says no, then just hang up and move on to the next dealer. Just separate the test drive from the buying experience.
I totally disagree with this. When the Mazdaspeed 3 came out I knew absolutely it was the car I wanted. I read every magazine article printed in this country, I read the Euro magazines where it's called the MPS. I studied the specs, read everything online. I knew that car inside and out. I sat in one. Yup, it's the car for me 100%. Went to the dealer to do a deal. Test drove the car. Best thing I ever did, I discovered I really really didn't like it.
Note. This is not to say the Mazdaspeed 3 wasn't or isn't a good car. For an autocross / track car it's undoubtable brilliant, but for a car that spends 90% of its time on Michigan roads it sucks. NVH and ride are appalling.
In reply to Datsun1500:
Given Nissan was giving them the off lease cars in in truck loads, I would say there is more to that story.
This thread reminds me of Steve Buscemi in the opening scene of Reservoir Dogs.
I'd forgotten about this until I was posting in Tommy's SVT Focus thread, but the easiest car purchase I ever made was my Focus in Dec 01. I had driven plenty of Focii so I knew what I wanted a yellow ZX3 with manual trans zero options except A/C, manual everything. I called the local dealer and by pure chance they had the car I wanted. I talked to them at lunch, went via the house so my wife could take me to the dealer around 4:30 and was out the door at 5:00 after signing.
As I said a few pages ago, maybe SE Michigan is unique, but I've found new car purchases to be zero hassle. I either finance through my credit union before I walk in, or have used manufacturer special financing at 0% with no fees. I've never paid anything other than a $50 paper work fee which I can live with.
The biggest issue I've ever had was with my credit union, not the dealer. That's because before being married we both had accounts with the same credit union. I'm a believer in that if you're not prepared to share finances you're not ready to be married so we went to close one account. Hers had been open longer so we closed mine and added me to hers. The issue came when I wanted a car loan, because she was the primary with me added, she had to sign for the loan, not me. Dumb, but not the dealers fault.
They had many a car they couldn't/wouldn't ship and they were clearly marked. I still believe there is more to the story.
I would say a more likely story is the people who bought tons of new cars were pissed Carmax was buying up all the lease cars. Nissan is in the new car business and decided that either they only keep them local or not at all. Carmax would have just washed their hands given the profit calculations they use.
FYI, by giving I meant giving them the nod on the winning bid. Not free of charge.
Adrian_Thompson wrote:
I totally disagree with this. When the Mazdaspeed 3 came out I knew absolutely it was the car I wanted. I read every magazine article printed in this country, I read the Euro magazines where it's called the MPS. I studied the specs, read everything online. I knew that car inside and out. I sat in one. Yup, it's the car for me 100%. Went to the dealer to do a deal. Test drove the car. Best thing I ever did, I discovered I really really didn't like it.
Yep - there's some things you can't pick up from magazine reviews. Another one for me (being on the tall side) is driving position and ergonomics.
Flight Service wrote:
In reply to Xceler8x:
Carmax doesn't sell new cars because the profit margin is too low.
If you notice the few new lots they have are usually selling below everyone else in the area.
They want your used car.
Datsun1500 wrote:
Carmax bought new car franchises so they could go to the manufacturer only auctions for off lease cars. They got in trouble for buying off lease cars at the Nissan sale (they have a Nissan store in MD) and shipping them to other parts of the U.S.A.
They used to have 21 new car stores and new cars were about 35% of their business at one point. They refused to stop shipping cars to other areas and lost some of their franchises. They have 4 or 5 new car stores left.
Thanks for setting me straight car bros!
Adrian_Thompson wrote:
I totally disagree with this. When the Mazdaspeed 3 came out I knew absolutely it was the car I wanted. I read every magazine article printed in this country, I read the Euro magazines where it's called the MPS. I studied the specs, read everything online. I knew that car inside and out. I sat in one. Yup, it's the car for me 100%. Went to the dealer to do a deal. Test drove the car. Best thing I ever did, I discovered I really really didn't like it.
Note. This is not to say the Mazdaspeed 3 wasn't or isn't a good car. For an autocross / track car it's undoubtable brilliant, but for a car that spends 90% of its time on Michigan roads it sucks. NVH and ride are appalling.
I have to agree with this. I drove a Mazdaspeed3 for years and I know from experience that the top of the seats can be too narrow for broad shouldered guys. If that's the case you'll always feel pinched in at the shoulders while driving. This would be a very hard thing to figure out unless you spent some time in the car.
In reply to Datsun1500:
yeah, the way our buyers did it is one guy would cover 4 lanes, 2 left, 2 right. Then they would have a guy up in the both just calling out numbers.
very advantageous. I was there from 2003-2008
Xceler8x wrote:
Flight Service wrote:
In reply to Xceler8x:
Carmax doesn't sell new cars because the profit margin is too low.
If you notice the few new lots they have are usually selling below everyone else in the area.
They want your used car.
Datsun1500 wrote:
Carmax bought new car franchises so they could go to the manufacturer only auctions for off lease cars. They got in trouble for buying off lease cars at the Nissan sale (they have a Nissan store in MD) and shipping them to other parts of the U.S.A.
They used to have 21 new car stores and new cars were about 35% of their business at one point. They refused to stop shipping cars to other areas and lost some of their franchises. They have 4 or 5 new car stores left.
Thanks for setting me straight car bros!
Adrian_Thompson wrote:
I totally disagree with this. When the Mazdaspeed 3 came out I knew absolutely it was the car I wanted. I read every magazine article printed in this country, I read the Euro magazines where it's called the MPS. I studied the specs, read everything online. I knew that car inside and out. I sat in one. Yup, it's the car for me 100%. Went to the dealer to do a deal. Test drove the car. Best thing I ever did, I discovered I really really didn't like it.
Note. This is not to say the Mazdaspeed 3 wasn't or isn't a good car. For an autocross / track car it's undoubtable brilliant, but for a car that spends 90% of its time on Michigan roads it sucks. NVH and ride are appalling.
I have to agree with this. I drove a Mazdaspeed3 for years and I know from experience that the top of the seats can be too narrow for broad shouldered guys. If that's the case you'll always feel pinched in at the shoulders while driving. This would be a very hard thing to figure out unless you spent some time in the car.
Hmmmmm....Well I never owned an MS3 but I have spent some time in one and absolutely loved it. All on Michigan roads too. It's no Cadillac for sure as far as the ride goes but I think it's one of the few cars that they got right, straight out of the box.
Adrian_Thompson wrote:
As I said a few pages ago, maybe SE Michigan is unique, but I've found new car purchases to be zero hassle.
My experience has been the opposite. I set my sister up with a Family discount and gave her the stock numbers of some AVP package (base model) Grand Caravans on the lot at 3 different dealers around Sterling Heights. None of them would sell one to her. Either they "didnt have that one but could make a killer deal on a loaded one" or were strongly pushing her to a lease. I went to the dealer in Lapeer with her and they kept steering her to a Town and County. She never did buy a new van.
logdog wrote:
Adrian_Thompson wrote:
As I said a few pages ago, maybe SE Michigan is unique, but I've found new car purchases to be zero hassle.
My experience has been the opposite. I set my sister up with a Family discount and gave her the stock numbers of some AVP package (base model) Grand Caravans on the lot at 3 different dealers around Sterling Heights. None of them would sell one to her. Either they "didnt have that one but could make a killer deal on a loaded one" or were strongly pushing her to a lease. I went to the dealer in Lapeer with her and they kept steering her to a Town and County. She never did buy a new van.
That's my experience too. Years ago I was casually interested in a Ford Contour SVT. At the Ford dealer they had two in the back behind rows and rows of other vehicles. They basically refused to get them out for a test drive and hammered on me to test drive a behemoth Expedition instead. What the?!! From a Contour to an Expedition? I walked out. Never did test drive one or buy a Ford product after that but I did enjoy my Subaru that I purchased instead.
Back to the line about car dealers being in business to make money. I work in sales myself, and there's one conversation I had with someone who did sales for another company that stuck in my mind.
Salesman: "What would you say is the most important thing for a salesman to have?"
Me: "Product knowledge?"
Salesman: "That's good to have, but it's more important to know what the customer needs, and believe you have something that meets their needs."
It seems the good experiences I've had with dealerships were when the salesmen there remembered that rule. The dealer I bought the Focus from got, "Ok, he wants to be left alone on the lot to find a car... ok, he's found the car he wants, and he'll just need tax and title, no financing or other things - all right, let's work out a price that's fair for everyone." And that went smoothly. Require a sales staff to push products they don't believe in (a good non-automotive case I've seen was a sofa salesman that wanted to charge me $100 to put Scotchgard on a sofa - he actually tried to get a manager to sell me on it when I declined, and I told the manager that there was no way they were paying more than $10 for the chemicals when bought in bulk), and you're setting the stage for a bunch of conflicts, arguments, and annoyed customers. The first one seems like a much better way to get repeat business and customers referring their friends to you.
MadScientistMatt wrote:
Back to the line about car dealers being in business to make money. I work in sales myself, and there's one conversation I had with someone who did sales for another company that stuck in my mind.
Salesman: "What would you say is the most important thing for a salesman to have?"
Me: "Product knowledge?"
Salesman: "That's good to have, but it's more important to know what the customer needs, and believe you have something that meets their needs."
It seems the good experiences I've had with dealerships were when the salesmen there remembered that rule. The dealer I bought the Focus from got, "Ok, he wants to be left alone on the lot to find a car... ok, he's found the car he wants, and he'll just need tax and title, no financing or other things - all right, let's work out a price that's fair for everyone." And that went smoothly. Require a sales staff to push products they don't believe in (a good non-automotive case I've seen was a sofa salesman that wanted to charge me $100 to put Scotchgard on a sofa - he actually tried to get a manager to sell me on it when I declined, and I told the manager that there was no way they were paying more than $10 for the chemicals when bought in bulk), and you're setting the stage for a bunch of conflicts, arguments, and annoyed customers. The first one seems like a much better way to get repeat business and customers referring their friends to you.
That reminded me of when I was in college and briefly worked at a dealership. They salesman would sell some poor schmuck the fabric protection package and have one of us run over to the local auto parts store and pick up a can of spray fabric protector for about $5.00 (back then) come back and spray it on the seats and charge the customer $300.00. Completely ridiculous.
Feedyurhed wrote:
logdog wrote:
Adrian_Thompson wrote:
As I said a few pages ago, maybe SE Michigan is unique, but I've found new car purchases to be zero hassle.
My experience has been the opposite. I set my sister up with a Family discount and gave her the stock numbers of some AVP package (base model) Grand Caravans on the lot at 3 different dealers around Sterling Heights. None of them would sell one to her. Either they "didnt have that one but could make a killer deal on a loaded one" or were strongly pushing her to a lease. I went to the dealer in Lapeer with her and they kept steering her to a Town and County. She never did buy a new van.
That's my experience too. Years ago I was casually interested in a Ford Contour SVT. At the Ford dealer they had two in the back behind rows and rows of other vehicles. They basically refused to get them out for a test drive and hammered on me to test drive a behemoth Expedition instead. What the?!! From a Contour to an Expedition? I walked out. Never did test drive one or buy a Ford product after that but I did enjoy my Subaru that I purchased instead.
Hilarious and thanks for the flashback. I tried to buy an SVT contour from the ford dealer near Kings Island here in Cincinnati. The kid selling the car didn't know anything about it but he did know all the standard, obnoxious lines to use. I decided early on that this was a big waste of time so I just had fun with it. When I balked at the price, he said, "Oh, I guess you just can't afford this car." I said, "yeah, I can't." After someone tries to insult you into buying a car, I refused to be polite. He then announced that he was going to go to his sales manager to get me a "special deal". I just laughed and asked out loud if he was going to give everyone else a special deal. The other potential customers sitting around just laughed. After some more back and forth I just grabbed his calculator and said to my new friends around me, "Oh look, this calculator doesn't have a subtraction key." So I just left and ordered the car from a dealer out of the back of autoweek magazine. The experience was great, the car, not so much lol.
Flight Service wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
Flight Service wrote:
carmax was designed to combat this
Been to one? They're worse than a regular dealer here. You are FORCED through their showroom into the sharktank before you can even get out onto their fenced lot. someone follows you the instant you walk in.
Why thank you. I worked there for 3 years and hit President's Club (sold a bunch of stuff) and got the Above and Beyond award (customer said I was uber nice person, way better than any car salesmen should be)
Forced through the showroom. Let me guess, you didn't listen to what the person said to you? Give them 3 minutes and they will tell you what you are looking at (the average person knows preciously zero about cars), and show you where & what kind of car you are looking for is located on the lot. They follow you because Carmax does surveys on EVERYTHING and customers at regular dealerships feel ignored. (FYI: They were actually created by Circuit City when they saw the writing on the wall. Then they surveyed people as to what they like and didn't) We get the leave me the berkeley alone crowd in there but the majority like the way it goes.
The "I am really just browsing because I like to look at cars, if I need something I will let you know" works alot better than "Leave me the berkeley alone, I know more about this than you do." Because the numbers say, odds are you don't.
Now you may have had a bad experience, or a bad sales person, but from the post, it seems like you wanted just to blow by everyone and not let the sales person do their job.
Both my father and I worked for Carmax also at one time it was the most soul sucking corporation I have ever worked for in my entire life
Feedyurhed wrote:
Hmmmmm....Well I never owned an MS3 but I have spent some time in one and absolutely loved it. All on Michigan roads too. It's no Cadillac for sure as far as the ride goes but I think it's one of the few cars that they got right, straight out of the box.
Which is why the test drive is so important. We're obviously both enthusiasts, we're both here on this site and like cars, competition, working, modifying, the general culture, but we have diametrically opposite opinions on this car. That doesn't make this car good or bad, it doesn't make you or me right or wrong, it just proves that it works for you but not for me, hence the test drive is essential.
Adrian_Thompson wrote:
Feedyurhed wrote:
Hmmmmm....Well I never owned an MS3 but I have spent some time in one and absolutely loved it. All on Michigan roads too. It's no Cadillac for sure as far as the ride goes but I think it's one of the few cars that they got right, straight out of the box.
Which is why the test drive is so important. We're obviously both enthusiasts, we're both here on this site and like cars, competition, working, modifying, the general culture, but we have diametrically opposite opinions on this car. That doesn't make this car good or bad, it doesn't make you or me right or wrong, it just proves that it works for you but not for me, hence the test drive is essential.
Yes exactly right. Well put.
