Why not the dealer?

I get all my work done at the dealership, but I have a rather unique situation. Dealership is a large Ford/Subaru dealer on its 3rd generation of ownership. I have been buying vehicles there since 1967. In addition:

Through other activities I know the current owner on a first name basis.

I was the middle school shop teacher for 4 of the mechanics, 2 of the service writers, and the Ford service manager.

The manager of the Quick Lane's wife and I taught school together for a number of years.

I never get any of the BS other people talk about when I take a vehicle in for service. And they don't even blink when I roll in with a supercharged Ford Focus to be serviced.

Another one for trust. Bmw goes to a local indie. The local dealer does the constant upsell. They haven't recommended total bs stuff but the upsell tactics erode trust. The indie is very forthright in what it needs now vs what can wait or when.

The particular dealer that was doing the "maintenance for life" oil changes on my car would leave the oil a half quart low. "Within spec" according the manual, but perturbed me. Truthfulness? Not sure...

They also used to try and up sell services all the time, and between the two I said screw it, I can do my own oil changes anyway... (yeah, kind of dumb to walk away from free oil & filter...).

Having said that, you and your associates have produced a bulletproof car for me ('12 Focus 5sp), so kudos to y'all.

I take the BRZ to the dealer mainly because it is under warranty and I have 2 years free maintenance. After that, if I still have the car, no way will I go to the dealer. 2 weeks ago is a good reason. I took it in because of a specific problem, valve clatter like pre-detonation, only for them to come back and say they didn't hear anything. My wife go it a few hours later and said what the hell is all that noise. You can plainly hear it, but the dealer refuses to admit there's a problem.

Give the other complaints I have about the BRZ, it will not be in my possession for very much longer. And, I will certainly not buy another Subaru either given the level of customer service.

I can't use the price excuse for it, as I haven't spent anything out of pocket. But I can going back to my MINI and BMW days as the dealer was double what it cost to go to a private specialty shop. And they didn't want to nickel and dime you to death like the dealer.

I will use another dealer example for our F150 at work. One of our engineers was heading to Atlanta from our "base" in Huntsville, AL. About a 4th of the way there it got stuck in 2nd gear. Being the "engineer" that he is, he finished the next 130 miles in 2nd. Ford dealer in Atlanta proceeds to do $3k worth of work and hand him a bill, which he paid. Heading back to Huntsville, it was still stuck in 2nd and he didn't go back. Took it to a shop here and within an hour they called and wanted to know what all the wire on the transmission was for, and were we taking speed data off the truck. Of course our "engineers" were for a project but neglected to remove the wire. Zero cost from local shop, $3k from Ford for doing nothing and refusing to refund expense.

No, I usually do not trust dealers. In my experience through the years a good independent shop performs better since their very existence depends you being happy. Dealers, not so much. Of course there are plenty of bad shops too.

My wife took our Mazda 5 in for 36K service at slightly less than 12 months old. The service writer told her she needed $1,400 worth of service to keep the warranty. This included trans service, brake flush and a host of other things not required according to the official service schedule from Mazda. They intimidated her into getting it done and when I called they lied to me and said those services were required as per Mazda. Needless to say, the car is serviced exclusively by me now.

Good stuff!

Going to make my follow up question very interesting to answer.

Dealer - Warranty work and service work while under warranty.

Myself or independent shop - almost everything else.

Why? - since dealers have had their margins shaved on sales, they try to make it all up in service including OUTRIGHT LIES.

My wife took our Explorer to our local dealer with 55k kms on the clock. They called me and told me that the rear rotors were under spec and needed to be replaced. I questioned them on it, especially due to the low mileage. They insisted they required replacement. I said no.

Took it home and checked. Min spec stamped on the rotor 10 mm - measured with a digital caliper in 4 places on each rotor 14mm.

Can't trust them as far as I can throw them.

Woody wrote: I think that the indie shops will at least make an attempt to fix what's not working, whereas the dealer will just replace what's not working, and then often try to upsell. The other thing that bugs me is that dealers will sell genuine parts for less through their online parts sales than they will over the counter. I can buy Genuine Toyota parts cheaper from a Toyota dealer in Texas and have them shipped here for less than I can buy them at my local dealers.

I hate that about our local Toyota dealership. When I bought the hitch and wiring harness for the RAV4, it was over $100 cheaper to buy it from another place and have it shipped (the hitch was big and heavy) than it was to buy it from the local dealership.

When I bought my truck, the dealer offered me the option of Line-X but it would cost $x and take about 10 days before they could do it. I said no, drove the truck to the Line-X place at the end of the block and had it done immediately for less

Which is part of why people have trouble with dealerships. The sales side has this slimy reputation of trying to get one up on the customer with a frankly ridiculous sales experience, and this slimy reputation transfers to the service side of the same building. You go in expecting to get screwed.

I do feel bad for the parts counters. The online resellers that are selling parts barely above cost and running huge volumes are making it difficult for physical shops that have to maintain actual inventory and do more than just pull parts for a website order. I had to deal with this with a customer recently - I'd given him a couple of hours of support and troubleshooting on a part he'd bought used, and then when he bought the $25 part needed to repair it (from our inventory) he gave me grief about the fact that we were more expensive than Summit Racing (who drop-ships with a two week lead time). Next time, I'll just charge him $130/hour for my time and he can buy the parts from Summit...

Local dealers screw you on parts purchases are a big reason I won't go there. Only way I go is for a part that I have ordered over the phone and they have given me a break on. Conversation goes as follows.
"Parts Department Please."
(wait)
"Can I get price and delivery on PN xxxxxx"
"Sure, that will be $obscene amount and take a week, plus its prepay and nonrefundible"
"OK Thanks" [orders online]

Or its "Parts Department Please."
(wait)
"Can I get price and delivery on PN xxxxxx"
"Sure, that will be $obscene amount and I have it on the shelf"
"I can get it from (online dealer's name) for $xxxx including shipping. Can you beat that?"

Depending on the answer I will either buy the par from the local guy or order it in. Its honestly 100% about the cost, the service at all dealerships and most parts stores is so piss poor I would rather buy parts online myself. Its sad that even the parts houses like NAPA don't get this. The local NAPA had the air filter for my truck for $75. Ordered it Amazon Prime and it was to my house 2 days later for $35. Same exact filter. I asked NAPA how close they could get to $35 and they told me they wouldnt move on price because I didnt have a commercial account. Then they wonder why their sales are slipping.

With anything non-current, it's going to be a crapshoot whether the dealership staff knows anything about it. Most places really grind through techs in my observation.

I was very happy with the local Chevy dealership when I had my Volt. The one problem I had with the car was a sticky steering rack and they went out of their way to straighten it out.

To keep the universe in balance, the local VW dealership returned my e-golf to me with a big double-chip on the hood. It looks like it's from an air chuck to me. It was in for a recall SW update and I (stupidly) decided to have them rotate the tires while it was there.

I'm pretty self sufficient but I'm fortunate to have several quality local shops to pick from when I need a hand. My favorite has actually loaned me tools unprompted ("here's a noid - make sure your injectors are firing before we order a fuel pump for you") and even let me do quick work in their shop while doing a tire swap or whatever.

I have never used a dealership for maintenance work. Reason being, when I started my current job at a previous location, it is right next to a shop. We (as employees) got free oil changes and a small discount on other work (they got an employee discount from us). For 2.5 years they didn't get a dime out of me, I still go to that shop. Even with a 150 mile round trip, that's how much I trust this location of a chain shop.

With local dealers: Cost and time are the big ones for me. As others have noted, I've got a good relationship with the parts guy at the dealership, but I've gone there for service twice. I've not been disappointed with the work, but they did try to up-sell me to have work done based on the mileage of the car that I'd already completed.

Now, about 90 miles away, there is a small Toyota dealership that I drove to in order to have an aftermarket suspension installed. Their labor rate for the install and alignment was low enough that I was able to conclude that my time was worth more than the out of pocket cost and the 3 hours of drive time and gasoline. There was no BS involved in the transaction, either. Granted, the guy I was in contact with is also a member of a local 4Runner group to which I also belong, and he knows I can wrench myself if I want to, so that may explain why the labor cost was attractive and there was no BS.

That may sum it up: If you can get a good relationship going with your dealer, it's not so bad, but many dealerships don't take the time and look at their service department as their number one revenue generator by any means necessary.

Woody wrote: I think that the indie shops will at least make an attempt to fix what's not working, whereas the dealer will just replace what's not working, and then often try to upsell. The other thing that bugs me is that dealers will sell genuine parts for less through their online parts sales than they will over the counter. I can buy Genuine Toyota parts cheaper from a Toyota dealer in Texas and have them shipped here for less than I can buy them at my local dealers.

I'm starting to think many on this board expect to have a negative experience and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I purchased all the parts for my Miata's at the local dealer. I told him, "If you'll give me good prices I'll do all parts business with you, instead of online. And I'll come to you with part numbers and quantities."

BANG! 20% discount on everything I purchased, didn't pay shipping (but did pay tax), and it was almost always there the next day. 2 at most.

And I've had the same good experience with my Subaru dealer on the BRZ. Rotating tires, changing trans/diff fluid when it was already in for the free oil change. etc.

Took it in this past weekend for an oil change, told them to throw in the air filter and replace wiper blades. All 3 done and back to me in 30 minutes. At a price I felt was reasonable so I didn't have to mess with it.

When you go in these complaining about the price of 1 jug of coolant and never spend any money there, what kind of reaction do you expect? Build a relationship. Complain all you want about how it should be, but when you do regular business with them, I've always had great service.

I do almost everything, as the fleet ages, that's getting old, but I shall persevere. Only thing I haven't serviced is the DSG transmission in the VWs we have/had. I'm about fed up with dealers, and VCDS along with the appropriate DSG service tools are on my short list for future purchase.

Recently I had the Sportwagen in for a rattling door panel, warranty work. Of course the tech couldn't hear it. When I got the call that they couldn't hear anything I protested, and they said they check again. I doubt they checked in the first place. Why would they? It's a waste of time to test drive, looking for a mystery noise, to only get paid warranty time, when they've got door rate customers to make money on. They called again later, and I suspect lied, they told me it was "fixed," that the tech found some broken clips in the door panel. Then tripped up and tried to sell me a window regulator, 34K miles on the least used window, and it needs a regulator? $400 something dollars, is what the advisor quoted me, I said, "sure it's under warranty," somehow the advisor overlooked that. Of course the regulator isn't in stock, and they aren't allowed to order anything without the car there. I scheduled to bring the car back later. I picked the car up, nothing on the RO about the tech fixing anything, or replacing any clips, and the panel still rattled. I was pretty hot.

When I showed back up for my window regulator, I came with video of my rattling door panel, they allegedly replaced the regulator, and now the door panel doesn't rattle. Such a headache, when it didn't have to be.

I wrote service for a few years, so I've been on both sides. We weren't pushed hard, but were still pushed to upsale. Spiffs were lucrative, but I held myself to a higher standard than my coworkers. Not trying to sound selfrighteous, I just had a stronger moral compass than my coworkers. I upsold stuff when I was convinced the customer truly needed it and only then, but didn't push anything that wasn't a safety issue. My numbers showed it too, my sales figures were crap compared to my coworkers, but my CSI was usually the best of the bunch, probably the only reason they kept me around.

The system is broken though, the techs just want door rate hours, warranty pays crap, CSI is rigged, way to many variables you have no control over impact it, pushing upsales is the only thing you can really control to ensure bringing in the money, and keeping your job. I don't miss it one little bit.

Sorry that was kind of a 2 part novel.

In reply to alfadriver:

Why do you ask? Do you work for a dealership, or is this curiousity?

alfadriver wrote: So, for this question- if you DON'T do the work yourself, why do you not use your dealer?

Price mostly. As well refusal to come of the box.

I used the dealer while my car was under warranty (also had free oil changes). But there were numerous times I felt but couldn't prove that they didn't do everything they said they did, like I'm pretty sure my tires weren't rotated at least twice when they said they did rotate them. I was also annoyed that their oil change plan did not include the official Mazda (Toyo Roku) oil filter. And at least twice I waited for 2 hours for an oil change, only to find out that all the employees stopped working to eat chips & salsa for an hour right in the middle.

I do have some dealer-specific service coming up (ECU update or whatever), but I will be going to a different dealer. Oil changes are easier for me to do myself now that I have a driveway.

The dealership building seems to be a place of distrust weather that be the front of the building or the rear of the building.

I know (and the dealers do to) that many people would avoid the dealership building if they could buy a new car any other way.

We took SWMBO's Fit to the dealer for a valve adjustment a couple years ago, while we were out of town on vacation. A couple days after returning she tells me the car was shaking badly going down the highway...the lug nuts on all-4 wheels were barely more than finger-tight. I called the dealer - not angry, but as a "You might want to know..." call. They refused to acknowledge the slightest possibility they were at fault, despite the fact their "21-point inspection" stated it including checking brake linings - and since the rears are drums...

Also, I'm a pretty good troubleshooter. I usually know the problem before I take it in. I'd rather take it to a cheaper mechanic who's a good parts-swapper for most common issues.

Oh, and since I usually buy (well) used vehicles, there's no real upside to taking them to a dealer, unless it's an issue a non-dealer wouldn't likely be able to fix.

I’ve had mixed experiences with my Ford dealer.

At around 90K miles, my Explorer started smoking intermittently out the exhaust pipe. I took it to an independent shop and the manager stuck his finger up the pipe and immediately said “yep, you need a new engine”. Really, no compression test…no inspection of the oil / coolant. I invited him to stick his finger up my butt and guess my favorite color. When he guessed purple, I knew to get a second opinion (I’m partial to blue) so off to Ford I went.

They quickly determined that it just needed a new O2 sensor…that was 110K miles ago and the problem hasn’t reoccurred so I’m pretty sure they got it right.

Now on the down side, my wife once took the Explorer in to the same dealer because the fuel gage kept sticking and the service guy tried to convince her that it was because she didn’t always use the same brand of gasoline. Honestly, it really hurt her feelings to be treated like such a fool and I had to give her some examples of times that mechanics told me dumb stuff to make her feel better.

Additionally, I just bought her a new Explorer and the HVAC system blows air that’s ~15 degrees warmer than ambient when on the coolest setting but without the AC running. Obviously the diverter gate isn’t working correctly but they keep kicking her out the door with the write-up saying “customer doesn’t understand that AC must be on to get cold air”….she’ll soon be asking them to guess her favorite color.

Back when I had my E36, I had a truly AWESOME indy specialist who only did Bimmers (unfortunately, as I no longer own one). I was on a real shoestring budget pretty much the entire time that car was in my possession, being in college, and also didn't always have the time to fix what needed to be fixed when it needed it. Those guys were great about seeing what they could do to come up with a cheap fix that would actually last.

In the two years since it was wrecked, I've yet to find another shop that I am totally satisfied with. Not just dealers, but indies too. The local GM franchise was actually decent, but quite expensive. The Firestone chain is staffed by a bunch of 20 year old stoned-out retards and threw a fit when I asked them for a non-stock alignment. Had to all but bribe the tech to align to my specs, then got lectured about how far off my toe was (no effing E36 M3, I told you I just replaced the tie rod ends then drove it straight here.) There's another shop that always seems to have something interesting in the service bay and I really wanted to like, but when I took the XJ there for inspection it failed for several things that turned out to be bogus upon further inspection. The place I've been using lately is ok, doesn't try to upsell at least but it's always at least a 2-3 week wait for a Saturday appointment.

In reply to racerdave600:

Holy cow. That is just thievery.

I use the local Mazda dealership for parts because it's pretty much at the end of my street. it worked out their prices are the same as arlington after shipping, so it's not to bad. But I won't get work done there because my car is older than half the guys in the garage.

I could definitely see using them for warranty work, but our old company truck (late 90s F150) was an issue. The semi-local ford dealer it was purchased from either didn't want the money, or were just stupid. We took the truck back 5 or 6 times because at highway speeds it felt like it was shaking apart unless it was fully loaded and they kept telling us it was the ladder rack. Right up until the day the lower control arm came off going down the highway.

I brought my Mazda to a local dealer for it's first oil change, and when they told me that it would be $55 with a coupon to do it with an hour wait, I said no thanks, walked to the parts counter, grabbed a filter for $5, and went to walmart on the way home for some 0w20 synthetic for $22. Getting the filter, oil, and doing the change took me less than an hour, and I saved nearly $30. I haven't been back.

Most of the independent shops around me are terrible, and follow the dealer model of dishonest, overpriced crap. It took me forever to find a decent tire shop that can properly mount and balance tires, and that's the only thing I'll farm out.