Why Yes, I Do Like Cars with Handling Flaws.

So all the talk of late has made me realize that I like cars with innate handling flaws.

Case in point my Datsun 1200: while the McPherson strut front suspension isn't what I'd call flawed the leaf spring suspension is quite a different story.

On entry to long high G corners the leaf springs in combination with the bias ply tires have a lot of wind up and so the car moves around a lot.

People following the car, especially those driving modern cars, find this alarming.

I on the other hand find it fun; the fact that the key to going fast is to simply ignore the car feeling like it's completely unsettled and just drive through it is hugely entertaining to me.

Note before anyone starts talking about what needs fixing, the rear suspension is per the Nissan Competition Handling Manual. It's the exact set up on the Devendorf RunOffs winning car so it's as good as these get.

My preference was further reinforced by driving a 2019 911 recently; it was flawless and so easy to drive.........I mean where's the fun in that?

Aren't the handling flaws just the character of the car? Most of what I've driven had plenty of character, including the character behind the wheel. 

"Do not ever lift mid-corner"

911?  Or one of these:

Front springs twice as stiff as stock, rear stabilizer bar removed, rear ride height raised to get the CG further away from the roll center, and you still really don't want to lift, ever.  Lifting in a 5/10ths situation rapidly turns it into a 9.5/10ths situation.  Fun in a "whee!" kind of sense.

My first example of the breed was a completely stock '80, which came with the 18mm rear stabilizer bar vs. the 15mm that later cars got.  Lifting mid corner was a bad idea but it also oversteered so much that you never needed to lift, you just wished for more power to accelerate out of the oversteer.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

We used to flog a buddy's RX 7 around Northshore Rd at Lake Mead and lots of corners had very washboard surfaces. Staying on the throttle was definitely the way to drive it.

In reply to Tom1200 :

This video may be Pascha's fault

AKA that time I went on a Hocking Hills drive with people who shall not be named and I cooked my brakes because you damned well better brake before any corner to turn in because you have to accelerate through or else

Looking back, my car sure looked like garbage, but I was in my mid 20s and broke, and some dumbass tried to break into it one day and ripped both door locks from the doors.  The Cossie Merc, on the other hand, was so rusty that they put a roll cage in it to keep it from collapsing on itself...

[Rear engine and swing axle have entered the discussion]

Preach Brother!

P.S.  I think what you are looking for is an early 911

I wouldn't call the 911 handling flawed, but my experience has been that if it's easy, you're not pushing hard enough.

Tom1200 said:

Case in point my Datsun 1200: while the McPherson strut front suspension isn't what I'd call flawed the leaf spring suspension is quite a different story.

I'll see your rear leaf spring and raise to a front transverse leaf spring Fiat 850

aircooled said:

[Rear engine and swing axle have entered the discussion]

Preach Brother!

 

P.S.  I think what you are looking for is an early 911

I once drove a student's La Carrera prepped 356 around Spring Mountain Motorsports and as the back end stepped out I turned to the owner and said "this handles just like my Datsun"

I was also entertained by my swing axle Baja Bug.

In reply to L5wolvesf :

Didn't know the 850s were set up that way. I drove one at an autocross once and found it to be fun.

In reply to 81cpcamaro :

I drive this, and agree wholeheartedly!

Nothing was as fun as my Yugo with the transverse leaf spring... EVERY corner was on 3 wheels!

Sometimes better isn't.

Flawed is okay, but I'm not a fan of unpredictable. I had a car set up for a while where you never quite knew if it was going to understeer horribly or if the back would step out and get a nice neutral drift. I never did figure out what was going on with that car but it killed a lot of cones in its day. 

E30s do the lift throttle oversteer thing too, but it's predictable, and thus quite a lot of fun if you know it's coming.

Brings back memories of high speed braking while entering a Manila roundabout in a M151 MUTT Jeep in 1966. Later that year the military stenciled warnings on the dashes of all M151s.