Worst design trend of the last 25 years

Seconded on the visibility stuff.  I've had quite a few people used to new cars ride in (or drive) one of mine and end up shocked at how good the visibility is. 

I also agree on the jack point complaints.  Many cars seem like they're meant to go on a dealership lift and nothing else.  On some, jacking isn't the issue, but having somewhere to put stands after jacking is. 

For the cars in our fleet, SWMBO's Prius isn't too bad.  I haven't actually looked for a front center jack point as I haven't needed it.  In the rear it can be jacked by the axle beam (although the beam does flex a bit when jacking in the center). 

The Jeep has stick axles front and rear, plus fairly substaintial "frame rails" for a unibody, so finding places to jack and support it is a non-issue. 

The E38 has a front center jack point on the engine subframe, but you need a rather long jack to reach it, as it's at least 2 feet back from the bumper.  In the rear, the closest you've got is the diff, but officially, you're not supposed to jack the car there.  And the only good place to put stands is on the side jacking points, so I can't see a way to get the entire rear end up on stands without violating BMW's jack point guidelines.  I did jack it by the diff once and the world didn't end, although I can't imagine it's particularly good for the diff bushings. 

calteg said:

Alright, I'll bite, what's an air spring?

A spring using Boyle's law, not Hooke's law.

Hooke's law spring - Steel coil or torsion spring - Fs = kx

Boyal's law, or air spring PV = k

In reply to Slippery :

I don't recall my E46 having that puck, just flat sheet metal in that location.  That's where I used to jack it, but it didn't do that bottom closure plate any good.

All these kids on my lawn.

AMIRITE?

rslifkin said:

I also agree on the jack point complaints.  Many cars seem like they're meant to go on a dealership lift and nothing else.  On some, jacking isn't the issue, but having somewhere to put stands after jacking is.

On the V60 I had to use my little aluminum HF jack because my big "...and I will move the world" cast iron Mohawk jack won't fit beside the car in the garage.  And of course when jacking form the rocker hardpoints you have to put the stands under the control arms, which aren't generally configured to provide a nice stable spot, and are in droop anyway so you have to tolerate them moving on the stand as you gently lower that side of the car onto it.  Plus it takes more time to do this way.

All of this would be solved if I could lift the whole front on the big jack and toss a couple stands under the rockers behind the front wheels.

Duke said:

In reply to Slippery :

I don't recall my E46 having that puck, just flat sheet metal in that location.  That's where I used to jack it, but it didn't do that bottom closure plate any good.

 

That puck sits against the subframe. If you jack it there, there is zero flex. Actually, its the jacking point :)

BMWs do jacking points right.  Front jacking puck fits perfectly in the saddle of a typical trolley jack.  Pretty easy to get them on four jack stands without screwing anything up.  They even have pucks for the jackstands, so you aren't tearing up a pinch weld seam.

As far as trends, everyone else has hit the high points.  High beltlines, poor visibility, big pillars, small rear glass, disjointed design elements.  

The Honda Odyssey has to be one of the top offenders for having swooping scalloped lines that aren't aesthetic or functional, or even cohesive.  From the floating C pillar, to the fake window extension in the front fender, to the crooked beltline, to the forehead trim over the headlamps and grille....just a hot mess all around.

mad_machine said:

the grills thing is funny.  For years, grills were designed to be just large enough to cool the car, but not destroy the aerodynamics completely.  When Japanese cars came to the US and started to become popular, they all but went away as the Japanese People saw big grills as being too aggressive looking for their tastes.  This was the age of "bottom feeding" coolent as both this design trend and the need for ever greater aerodynamics was running headlong into our still not completely understood abilities to lower CD.

Now, China is dictating a lot of design trends. They are the largest untapped market for cars and they love big grills, they feel it makes the cars look expensive and powerful. Our understanding of aerodynamics makes this possible to make the entire front of the car look like a grill and still have a low coefficient of drag.

Of course the auto manufacturers love big grills. They are cheap to make, do not require paint, can look "tacked on" and are easy to replace in the event of a small bump with another car. What would you rather replace, a big section of the car that comes in a box and requires no prep and paint before installation, or something that requires a lot of bolts/screws, special paint to avoid cracking, and is quite easily damaged in the first place.

Functionally my beefs have already been covered. Dipsticks, elimination of rotary volume controls, etc. But there is one thing that just feels like an affront against laws of nature and all that it holy, it is.....

Dumpy trunks. Ford And Infiniti were the worst offenders, but you still occasionally see someone do this (Mercedes)

Slippery said:

Duke said:

In reply to Slippery :

I don't recall my E46 having that puck, just flat sheet metal in that location.  That's where I used to jack it, but it didn't do that bottom closure plate any good.

That puck sits against the subframe. If you jack it there, there is zero flex. Actually, its the jacking point :)

I get that, but I spent a reasonable amount of time under my 2003 and I don't recall ever seeing that puck being present on my particular car.

buzzboy said:

...I like nice low door frames and toothpick thin pillars.

This always come to mind for thin pillars, BMW 635CSi

^^ High beltlines. I like great sightlines, not playing like a gangsta.

This:  

Not this:

How about the bright guy that said "We are getting a lot of owners wasting the time of our dealers because they see what they think is low oil pressure and take them in for warranty". Their solution - eliminate oil pressure gauges in the cars.

As an old car racer (in both senses) I have spent a lot of time keeping an eye on the oil pressure and resent not being able to do that. The other similar move that I feel is annoying/stupid is the elimination of an oil dipstick so you can tell when you run low.  I guess if the trouble light fails to light up you just toasted an engine.

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

Dumpy trunks. Ford And Infiniti were the worst offenders, but you still occasionally see someone do this (Mercedes)

 

Its the one thing I hate about the new Hyundai Sonata, the "dumpy trunk".

Live edge woodwork and barn doors.

Or did you just mean automotive stuff?

I've been observing car design trends for 6 decades. Every 10 years they change. Sleek to boxy and back to sleek... Gaudy to simple and back...

Eliminating tow hooks was a really stupid idea, and I'm not too fond of donut spares. 
 

Run-flats aren't great either. Why do we need a tire that the average driver can't look at and determine that it's flat?

Front wheel drive.

Four cylinders.

Electric parking brake.

Driver "aids" - lane keeping, blind spot monitoring, etc. If you're too lazy to pay attention and drive the car, then ride the berkeleying bus.

Controls scattered hither and yon all over the interior, and every manufacturer (hell, every model) has them in different places. There should be an industry-wide standard for the vast majority of controls - power window switches, headlight switches, radio, HVAC, etc - pick ONE design and location, and everybody use it. Every time I get in a rental car it's a game of "where the berkeley is the damn USB port/outside rearview mirror buttons/headlight switch/radio station tuning setting in THIS POS?"  

Hood lines (leading edge) so high you can't quite tell if you are about to run somebody over.

ProDarwin said:

I hate this image when people use it to suggest all CUVs look the same (not sure if that is implied here or not).  If you show all cars in white, from a side profile, cover the wheels, and scale them to be the same size there are some similarities?  No way!

While there is some truth to the idea that cars are more similar in this fashion than they used to be, it's all down to the wind tunnel.  It turns out that the laws of physics don't really care what badge is on the car, so when different companies start prioritizing fuel efficiency and drag you wind up with very similar solutions.

As for the worst design trend, I'm going to say the death of pop-up headlights.  They're cool, bring them back! :)

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

ProDarwin said:

I hate this image when people use it to suggest all CUVs look the same (not sure if that is implied here or not).  If you show all cars in white, from a side profile, cover the wheels, and scale them to be the same size there are some similarities?  No way!

While there is some truth to the idea that cars are more similar in this fashion than they used to be, it's all down to the wind tunnel.  It turns out that the laws of physics don't really care what badge is on the car, so when different companies start prioritizing fuel efficiency and drag you wind up with very similar solutions.

Yep.  And regulations.  Just like an A320 and a 737 are borderline indistinguishable to the casual observer.  Imagine that.

wspohn said:

How about the bright guy that said "We are getting a lot of owners wasting the time of our dealers because they see what they think is low oil pressure and take them in for warranty". Their solution - eliminate oil pressure gauges in the cars.

As an old car racer (in both senses) I have spent a lot of time keeping an eye on the oil pressure and resent not being able to do that. The other similar move that I feel is annoying/stupid is the elimination of an oil dipstick so you can tell when you run low.  I guess if the trouble light fails to light up you just toasted an engine.

 

 

The younguns seem to refer to that light as the add oil light. At least that's what I read on some Hyundai forums. :(

amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) said:

The younguns seem to refer to that light as the add oil light. At least that's what I read on some Hyundai forums. :(

Many new cars have a 'low oil' light and a separate 'low oil pressure' light

My biggest design grump is the "black everything" trend, first it was wheels, then headlight trim, then all the damn trim......then there was the "murdered out" look......what the hell does that mean anyway? If someone drives a black car they murder people or.....????

At any rate, I'll be glad to see them move away from at least the all black wheels - people think they're cool, but to me they just look cheap, and always dirty.

Back in the day when you couldn't afford hubcaps you had black steel wheels - that's what this trend reminds me of....

I've had 2 cars with DCT transmissions & have liked them a lot. My problem with them is that the car must be in neutral to be towed and can't be put into N unless the car is running.