Would you rather drive an RX-8 or an FRS?

This might seem like an odd comparison, but the RX-8 went out of production right before the FRS was released, and in real world terms they cost about the same to buy used, right now it seems like you can either buy a nice RX-8 for ~ 10k, or buy an early one with engine problems for 4k and budget another 5k roughly for engine replacement. About 11k will get you a clean, stock FRS even with current pandemic pricing. I've driven both cars, but only very briefly and many many years apart. Obviously the Scion will cost less in fuel, but imo the rotary is more fun to drive hard. (Though I thought the FA20 in the FRS was a lot more alive and fun than the internet led me to believe in my brief test.) Has anyone driven both cars thoroughly? Which car has better turn in, better steering feel, feels more alive? I think both cars are within about 100 lbs of each other, though the BRZ I drove felt very spartan inside, whereas the Mazda had lots of features and generally felt like it was bolted together well, though it's been so long that I don't remember what trim level it had.

Which car would you own if practicality was not a major concern and you mostly drove it on hill roads? Which would you own as a daily? If someone tossed you the keys just for the day, which would you drive?

I'd lean towards the FRS, but I couldn't give a whole lot of solid reasons why. Styling is a bit nicer, I prefer a piston to a rotor, .......might be more interesting if I got to do a back-to-back comparison to see if it reinforces or refutes my biases.

I likes the idea of what amounts to a 5 seat Miata. But the styling is...off, and spinning triangles dont do a thing for me. 9,000 rpm is that special anymore .  Used ones are probably on their second or thrid owners.

The GT86 looks like a proper ports car. The flat 4 isn't for everyone. The torque dip exists, apparently,  but I've never noticed. Aftermarket is much more diverse.  Attracts hard parkers, and flatbiller who like to crash.

From a pure driving experience standpoint, the rx8. That chassis was simply sublime, imo. The FRS is a great car, and arguably better looking (not to mention reliability, etc) but the Mazda just felt right. 

Appleseed said:

I likes the idea of what amounts to a 5 seat Miata.

4 seat unfortunately. (Says the guy with 3 young kids at the time he really wanted to buy one.)

I looked at the number 4. I swear. My fat finger liked 5 instead. We're both lucky it wasn't 9.

I don't have any experience with either, Rx-8 is on my bucket list. All of what you said is why I like it, the con for me is finding someone that is willing to work on a Rotary if it were need apex seals or stuff that I would have a mechanic do. FRS is cool and newer and parts are seemingly easy to get, but as you said it's not as cool/different/fun as the RX-8. 

FRS. 

Where are you finding them for 11K?

Anything under 14k here is 100k+ miles or beat up. Or both. 

Exploded RX8 with some kind of real engine swap.

If it has to be largely stock, then FRS.

Both seem like excellent LS swap candidates to me

RX-8 all day every day. Best chassis I've ever experienced that didn't have a Porsche emblem on it. 

RX8 is ugly. Sorry but Mazda was doing weird stuff with front fender lines during that period. 

Would never be comfortable with the fragility of the engine. "When" rather than "If" it is going to crater the seals. 

I consider it foolish to try and extract more power from either of them. The engineers left nothing on the table if you want the car to be reliable at higher power levels.

Disclaimer: Been driving an FRS for almost 10 years. I bought it because I could not not buy it. Had seen the Mazda and while it was OK, it never gave me the urge to own one for all the years it was in production. 

I've driven both, but the drives were separated by so many years, it's hard for me to say.   The RX-8 disappointed me very much in it's utter lack of thrust.  If Mazda had brought the RX-8 to market with a turbo, it would have blown up just as soon or a bit sooner, but at least it would have been wonderful while it lasted.

The FRS was not disappointing.  And by that metric alone, this hardcore Mazda rotary fanboy would have to give the nod to the FRS.

Just kidding.  RX-8!!!

I enjoy the fact that we're discussing the relative reliability of a rotary and a Subaru flat four.

Javelin said:

RX-8 all day every day. Best chassis I've ever experienced that didn't have a Porsche emblem on it. 

I read stuff like this, but everyone like to trash the NC Miata, and aren't they basically the same underneath? Is the NC's only offense that it's heavier than other Miatas? Sorry for muddying the waters by bringing a third car into the discussion, but having no experience with either car, this always confused me.

Drive? RX-8

Own? FR-S

obsolete said:

Is the NC's only offense that it's heavier than other Miatas?

Yes. The NC is an amazing car on track, if properly prepared.

In my experience, renesis engines pretty regularly die at 100k miles. This and bad fuel economy are the drawbacks. 

Having autocrossed an Rx8 once though, yeah, chassis is sublime and the rear seat access is better as well. 

I havent driven an FRS/BRZ yet.  I couldnt really DD either, but I think I would lean Rx8 despite it's drawbacks. 

I owned an Rx-8 (from new) from 2007 until last year 2021.  I sold it with about 85k on it and it still had fine compression as of the official Mazda test I had ran about 6 or 7k ago.   I loved everything about it, honestly.   It's way more playful than the FRSes I've driven.  If Mazda hadn't released the ND RF, I'd still have it...

I was really disappointed by the FA20.  I thought it felt & sounded tractorish, and in my usage I kept hitting the torque dip in very disappointing ways.   If I got an FRS, I would immediately get a header & tune on it to get rid of that.  That makes it WAY more fun and rewarding to play with.

For either, I'd be looking hard at previous owners & maintenance.  For either I'd be banking on replacing the engine.  As "The guy with the lift" I've now helped two people swap FA20s and two Rx-8s.. so, it's a wash for me.

So, if I had to chose again, I'd go Rx-8.    But honestly, I'd look at an ND first.  

RX-8, and it isn't even particularly close. If it weren't for the reliability issues with the Doritos, I'd own one. 

Keith Tanner said:

I enjoy the fact that we're discussing the relative reliability of a rotary and a Subaru flat four.

Pegged it!

Never found a rotary appealing, and my recent six months of WRX ownership put me off of Subarus. 

I would say RX-8 too. I never fit in one with a helmet on so I never bought one but I had so much fun driving it. The first gen Twins was good and I fit in it well but it isn't as fun as the RX-8 for me. Since I am too broad for the ND (Literally the worse car I've ever been in for fit) and too tall for the RX-8, I own a 2nd gen twin by default. 

obsolete said:

Javelin said:

RX-8 all day every day. Best chassis I've ever experienced that didn't have a Porsche emblem on it. 

I read stuff like this, but everyone like to trash the NC Miata, and aren't they basically the same underneath? Is the NC's only offense that it's heavier than other Miatas? Sorry for muddying the waters by bringing a third car into the discussion, but having no experience with either car, this always confused me.

The problem with the NC is the existence of other Miatas :) It's a very capable chassis, but it's not as entertaining as the others - instead of going wheeee! it just gets the job done competently. The fact that the stock suspension tuning sucked really, really badly until the last three years of production didn't help. The RX8 may have been better tuned in stock form and it was also being compared to other coupes in a higher weight class where "feels faster than it is" isn't usually a plus. But that's exactly what the Toybarus were trying to capture in my understanding.

I've never had a chance to drive an FRS so I can't compare.

Keith Tanner said:

The fact that the stock suspension tuning sucked really, really badly until the last three years of production didn't help. The RX8 may have been better tuned in stock form and it was also being compared to other coupes in a higher weight class where "feels faster than it is" isn't usually a plus. 

I think this is the biggest thing..  I don't know how long it's been since you've driven a stock suspension NC, but I remember going to the Mazda "gymkahana" launch event (I think it was called "Zoom Zoom Live?").  I got to drive a NC and a Rx-8 back to back.  The first year NC was REALLY bad.  I drove down to the event in my modified NA, and ended up buying a Rx-8 within the year, but all of my group (6 of us in NA/NBs) spent the rest of the day complaining about how Mazda had ruined the Miata.

I never even test drove an NC until years later when I drove a modified one a a track event and was really surprised by how capable it was.

Either way, the NC should be on your radar, but immediately call FM and get a new suspension on order, stat.

When we got our first NC with the "sport" suspension with 3500 miles on it, the poor car was showing signs of bad chassis control just driving down the straight business loop near our shop. I've been told from a fairly reputable source that the chassis engineers were instructed that the new car couldn't be faster than the old and thus they completely kneecapped the suspension, but I find that hard to believe on a bunch of different levels. I'm wondering if they were told to chase a specific demographic, the "drive to eat" crowd and thus put too much emphasis on ride comfort - although you can usually improve that with a set of well-tuned shocks while also improving control.

The "faster than it feels" vs "feels faster than it is" thing is what really separates them when they're properly set up. NA/NB cars are the latter, the NC replaces some of the sheer joy with competence. If you're chasing lap times, that's great. They're a step up in speed relative to the earlier car. If you're simply looking to have a good time, it may not be. The ND has a philosophy that's closer to the NA/NB in this regard, but is still quicker than the NC.