WWGRMD: When do you decide that someone doesn't want to sell you a car?

Some members on here may remember that I'm currently kinda cross-shopping the ND MX5 with a Caterham 7. I'm getting more than a tad frustrated with the seller of the Caterham(s) and am wondering if I'm just unusually short fused at the moment.

Story goes something like this:

Saturday three weeks ago I visit a seller of Caterhams, specifically to look at one of the cars he has for sale. Turns out after a five hour journey, the car I came for is at the back of his workshop and while we can start it up, we can't get it out of the shop. He knew I was coming, I made a point of letting him know I was on the way and that I was running slightly late, but at that time, we'd been talking about me showing up for a couple of days already. Anyway, I don't fit the older car that well, he has a newer car for sale also, but that's not running as it needs fuel system work. Newer car fits me much better, he mentions he should have it running in a few days when the parts show up. I told him I wasn't going to buy either car without a test drive, but that I was basically ready to buy otherwise. He tells me he'd be in touch in a few days when it's running.

Crickets.

Ping him again the following Friday, not all the parts showed up. Another week's delay.

Crickets.

Ping him again, another Friday, should be all done Saturday. Wife re-arranges our weekend plans. Ping him again, looks like it won't be done Sunday, suggests it should be done early in the week. I tell him I would prefer to come down again the next weekend, but I may be able to take a day off and show up during the week. Keep in mind the round trip takes me a full day.

Crickets.

Pinged him again yesterday. Not done, should be done tomorrow. I have heard that one before...

Now, I get it, it's a specialist car so parts aren't always on the shelf. But I'm getting this rather annoyed "oi, whose leg do I have to hump to get some service in here" feeling.

I mean, if I have someone walk into my shop who clearly knows what he's looking at, just traveled 250 miles and is happy to drop between 25k and 35k on a car, I'd probably at least try to keep him in the loop as to what's going on, especially when said potential customer tells me he is a bit of a time crunch.

Of course, the above may explain why at least one of the two cars has been for sale for months.

So, WWGRMD?

Play along and hope he gets his act together before the ND shows up at the dealer, after taking a chill pill? Walk? Start bidding on the Maxton Rollerskate that just showed up on fleabay?

Keep checking but keep shopping.

I'd take it as a sign that he is truly terrible at taking care of anything, or ever following through.

Then, I'd assume that's the way he treats the cars, and leave, shake the dust off my feet, and never look back.

I don't want to buy a rare specialty car from someone who doesn't take care of stuff.

Unless the price tag was about half of the value.

Some folks just live on the same clock, but in a different reality. What's important to you and what's important to him don't line up. And yes, that's probably why one of them has been for sale a long time.

Personally, I don't screw around with people or play games. I'd show him the cash I have ready to spend for a running car and say, "Call me when you have something to sell." That's it. Walk away and go on with your life.

I get your frustration. I'm constantly amazed that in the days of e-mail, phones physically on your person nearly 24/7, phones, text instant messaging... that this is a daily recurring theme. People are crashing cars to read their texts. I have no explanation. On the seller's side - many people are interested enough to kick some tires and would love to drive these toys. Real buyers are few and far between. Does he really want to invest time, money, parts for the next guy's fun outing/day trip to just end up buying a miata because the caterham is too primitive to live with.

I wouldn't waste any more time. If he can't even bother to call or e-mail you to let you know the status, then look elsewhere.

Take a pass. Just a few months ago I was looking for a certain used car. Found one less than a mile from my office at a small independent dealer. Grey on grey (bleh), higher miles, a little rough around the edges. After two visits and leaving my contact info, it was clear that they had no motivation to make a sale.

That next weekend, I found the same car, but black on black (rare-ish), lower miles and better condition at another dealer 2 hours away. I called and told the salesman that if it was as advertised I was driving it home. He knew that if I left I wasn't coming back, and made me a cash out-the-door deal.

I realize that a Catherham is a unique specialist car, but if it isn't right it isn't right. Keep looking.

I tell my clients when there will be a delay.... and my work doesn't sell for $25k

Sounds like you want to buy the car more than he wants to sell it ... thats not good for you.

I would keep looking at others cars and never call him again. If he calls you before you buy, good but otherwise dont look back.

Now if you really want the car, you have to play his game.

You can keep bugging him but he clearly doesn't want to sell the car. Or at least to you

The other thing you could try is let one of us contact him. It may be a simple personality clash.

You're welcome.

Thanks for all the feedback!

I probably didn't make this too clear, the seller in question is not a "civilian" but a specialist dealer. That's the part which has me a little confused, I thought dealers made money when shifting inventory.

I do guess that selling either of the two cars is not as high on his priority list as not missing the rest of the motorsports season is for me. I get that.

There may be a "I want the car more than he wants the money" going on. My problem is that once I have made a decision (which can take some time, as all the readers of my various what car threads can attest to), I do get frustrated when it then keeps hanging around unmade. I've also had a whole bunch of car-related frustrations over the last year or so, and this ain't making it any better.

G_Body_Man wrote: You're welcome.

I have that on my bookshelf, actually.

Given that the next event I don't have a car for is on June 27th, buying steel tubing right now may be a little optimistic.

And yes, I have a backup plan for that event (rent a Spec Miata), but it eats into my car buying fund.

oldtin wrote: On the seller's side - many people are interested enough to kick some tires and would love to drive these toys. Real buyers are few and far between. Does he really want to invest time, money, parts for the next guy's fun outing/day trip to just end up buying a miata because the caterham is too primitive to live with.

I hear you, and that's why I wanted some feedback if I appear to be unreasonable. I'm not always that good at communicating (introverted techie and all that, much better off hiding behind a keyboard).

In my case the problem is more the perpetual question about my ability to live with its ergonomics which may or may not have me end up buying a Miata. For that I need to test drive it, and I have been very open about that. I can understand that this may get me labelled as a tire kicker, if that's the case, well, I can't fix that.

You mention that it's buried in the back of a shop. What is it buried behind?

I ask because, if I get the feel right, the guy may have obligations for people who are paying him money now and expect their car back soon. Definite money is always more important than maybe money, and until you sign paperwork and transfer funds, a car sale is always maybe-money.

I completely get where you're coming from. I too go from indecision and overanalyzing to gung-ho gottahaveit gottadoit nownownownow can't waste time this has to happen kind of mentality. Zero to WOT and nothing in between. And I get rather impatient. But I also work in a shop where we have to work with this kind of weird stuff, and a lot of times it has to be deprioritized on our end because of other factors. The standing joke is "everything needs to be done first before we touch anything else".

Tell him you have cash and tell him to let you know when he is ready to have you test drive it. If something better/different comes along (like a rollerskate) before he gets his act together then so be it.

Knurled wrote: You mention that it's buried in the back of a shop. What is it buried behind?

A couple of other Caterhams, possible an errant Elan chassis as well. And I think there was a Lotus/Ford twin cam in the mix, too.

And that was just the straight line between the car and the roll-up door.

Knurled wrote: I ask because, if I get the feel right, the guy may have obligations for people who are paying him money now and expect their car back soon. Definite money is always more important than maybe money, and until you sign paperwork and transfer funds, a car sale is always maybe-money.

You may well be onto something. Of course, if he just told me that I'd be a much happier bunny and probably would be willing to work with him rather than nursing the nagging feeling that I'm being given the run-around.

At this point it's not so much the "gottahavenownownownow", it's the overpromising and underdelivering while messing up our weekend plans that's bugging me. Telling me "look dude, I need to finish these two cars before I can even find the time to look at the one you're interested in" is perfectly reasonable in my world.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

Some people can't say "no". Some are introverted grease-monkeys who do much better hiding under the hood of a British car than answering calls and emails. Not saying that's what you're up against, but seems plausible.

There are a few completed cars available on the Locost forum. Might be worth looking at (and a bit cheaper).

My feeling has always been if you're getting poor or no service before you've given them any money, what's it going to be like after cash has changed hands, and there is a problem? I think you already know the answer.

bentwrench wrote: There are a few completed cars available on the Locost forum. Might be worth looking at (and a bit cheaper).

I know they're a bit cheaper, but I'm always a little concerned about completely home-built cars. One of the reasons for buying one from a person who seems to know his way around them. Plus, I really wanted the "original".

car39 wrote: My feeling has always been if you're getting poor or no service before you've given them any money, what's it going to be like after cash has changed hands, and there is a problem? I think you already know the answer.

That's a very good point. Mind you, I have a few friends that live within about 1/2h of the Caterham factory in the UK , so getting parts may not be quite that big a deal.

Stalker AXR http://stalkercars.com/

I'd keep at it. I've bought a lot of cars and some people just aren't great salesmen. In my experiences its usually worth the wait and hassle.