Glad you got it handled! I'll have you know I deleted "most likely clutch is the culprit" from my last post
Glad you got it handled! I'll have you know I deleted "most likely clutch is the culprit" from my last post
Good call.
It still seems like it will get hot if provoked. I didn't overheat it, but I was able to get it close by using more throttle than necessary and going up tons of hills very slowly. I am not sure what temperature the clutch fan kicks on, but when I shut it off and grabbed it, it wasn't locked down. Maybe the temperature gauge is conservative. I'll give her a few days to see what she comes up with.
On mine a heavy duty/towing clutch helped, the oem may have also been old. Had to add washers to the bolts for the fins to clear. When I fill the coolant I jack the front of the jeep as high as my jack will go and run the engine until the thermostat opens so as to burp it.
Good luck
The radiator isn't one of those copper finned jobs that a lot of chryco products had where the fins turn to mush is it?
Kenny_McCormic wrote: The radiator isn't one of those copper finned jobs that a lot of chryco products had where the fins turn to mush is it?
It actually appears to be relatively fresh and aluminum. I am surprised.
Hmmm.....I've only had mechanical clutches fail 'locked'. In other words, the failure wasn't one that caused overheating. It caused the dang thing to sound like a 747 at takeoff whenever revs climbed above.....well, idle.
How old is the radiator? Even with regular coolant changes, deposits get built up on the inside over time, grime/debris invades the space between the fins, fins get crushed -- eventually, they simply won't transfer enough heat to get the job done. This usually manifests with '....I don't understand. Rad cap is good, t'stat is good, fan is good -- it just gradually gets hotter especially when taxed with load or high summer temps; it never did this before...'
MichaelYount wrote: Hmmm.....I've only had mechanical clutches fail 'locked'. In other words, the failure wasn't one that caused overheating. It caused the dang thing to sound like a 747 at takeoff whenever revs climbed above.....well, idle. How old is the radiator? Even with regular coolant changes, deposits get built up on the inside over time, grime/debris invades the space between the fins, fins get crushed -- eventually, they simply won't transfer enough heat to get the job done. This usually manifests with '....I don't understand. Rad cap is good, t'stat is good, fan is good -- it just gradually gets hotter especially when taxed with load or high summer temps; it never did this before...'
I agree, I had only had them fail locked before as well, but it wasn't blowing much at all as compared to the new one, and the behavior is definitely better.
As far as the radiator goes, with upper and lower hoses removed, I can readily pour water through it. I know that doesn't mean that it isn't all clogged up inside, but at least it passes through somewhat. Likewise, the fins look very good. It must have been replaced somewhat recently, but Dexcool can still be clogging up inside. I am not sure if there is a good way to check this.
tuna55 wrote:MichaelYount wrote: Hmmm.....I've only had mechanical clutches fail 'locked'. In other words, the failure wasn't one that caused overheating. It caused the dang thing to sound like a 747 at takeoff whenever revs climbed above.....well, idle. How old is the radiator? Even with regular coolant changes, deposits get built up on the inside over time, grime/debris invades the space between the fins, fins get crushed -- eventually, they simply won't transfer enough heat to get the job done. This usually manifests with '....I don't understand. Rad cap is good, t'stat is good, fan is good -- it just gradually gets hotter especially when taxed with load or high summer temps; it never did this before...'I agree, I had only had them fail locked before as well, but it wasn't blowing much at all as compared to the new one, and the behavior is definitely better. As far as the radiator goes, with upper and lower hoses removed, I can readily pour water through it. I know that doesn't mean that it isn't all clogged up inside, but at least it passes through somewhat. Likewise, the fins look very good. It must have been replaced somewhat recently, but Dexcool can still be clogging up inside. I am not sure if there is a good way to check this.
I've had two of them fail free and cause overheating problems. Both were high mileage units that showed signs of leaking around the shaft.
In reply to Toyman01:
Well now I've had one fail freewheeling as well. I didn't inspect it thoroughly, but it was awfully greasy.
Also, Jeep made it very hard to get to.
tuna55 wrote:MichaelYount wrote: Hmmm.....I've only had mechanical clutches fail 'locked'. In other words, the failure wasn't one that caused overheating. It caused the dang thing to sound like a 747 at takeoff whenever revs climbed above.....well, idle. How old is the radiator? Even with regular coolant changes, deposits get built up on the inside over time, grime/debris invades the space between the fins, fins get crushed -- eventually, they simply won't transfer enough heat to get the job done. This usually manifests with '....I don't understand. Rad cap is good, t'stat is good, fan is good -- it just gradually gets hotter especially when taxed with load or high summer temps; it never did this before...'I agree, I had only had them fail locked before as well, but it wasn't blowing much at all as compared to the new one, and the behavior is definitely better. As far as the radiator goes, with upper and lower hoses removed, I can readily pour water through it. I know that doesn't mean that it isn't all clogged up inside, but at least it passes through somewhat. Likewise, the fins look very good. It must have been replaced somewhat recently, but Dexcool can still be clogging up inside. I am not sure if there is a good way to check this.
Back to the question - how old is the radiator? The kind of deposits I'm speaking of don't impact flow as much as they impact heat transfer between the coolant and the tube. And if Dexcool was involved.....all bets are off.
MichaelYount wrote:tuna55 wrote:Back to the question - how old is the radiator? The kind of deposits I'm speaking of don't impact flow as much as they impact heat transfer between the coolant and the tube. And if Dexcool was involved.....all bets are off.MichaelYount wrote: Hmmm.....I've only had mechanical clutches fail 'locked'. In other words, the failure wasn't one that caused overheating. It caused the dang thing to sound like a 747 at takeoff whenever revs climbed above.....well, idle. How old is the radiator? Even with regular coolant changes, deposits get built up on the inside over time, grime/debris invades the space between the fins, fins get crushed -- eventually, they simply won't transfer enough heat to get the job done. This usually manifests with '....I don't understand. Rad cap is good, t'stat is good, fan is good -- it just gradually gets hotter especially when taxed with load or high summer temps; it never did this before...'I agree, I had only had them fail locked before as well, but it wasn't blowing much at all as compared to the new one, and the behavior is definitely better. As far as the radiator goes, with upper and lower hoses removed, I can readily pour water through it. I know that doesn't mean that it isn't all clogged up inside, but at least it passes through somewhat. Likewise, the fins look very good. It must have been replaced somewhat recently, but Dexcool can still be clogging up inside. I am not sure if there is a good way to check this.
I don't know how old it is. It looks fresher than OEM based on the relative lack of bent fins and the general shape of the aluminum. Is there a DIY way to clean it up internally?
I just replaced a very nice-looking radiator in the jeep this past winter. Then dumped in a bigass ebay aluminum radiator. It also failed in short order and was just generally a piece of E36 M3. Then that company screwed me out of some money during the return process.
So i put another $90 parts store piece of E36 M3 back in it. It'll fail within 2-3 years if i'm lucky.
Moral of the story is: It's probably more likely that the radiator is shot than you'd think.
In reply to Swank Force One:
I don't mind replacing the radiator, it's not that bad, Probably easier than the water pump, actually. The problem is that she doesn't have any money. She had to save for the water pump, and I paid upfront for the fan clutch (she may pay me back), and I know she doesn't have cash for a new radiator. Is there any DIY way to clean this sucker? I don't mind giving away labor, but I can't float many more parts myself.
You could probably do a CLR flush, but it'll probably just take away deposits that are currently keeping it from leaking. 
+1 for a chemical flush. Those passages could easily still flow water, but if the dexcool schmutz is sticking to all the surfaces, the ability to transfer heat goes way down.
I've used the Mercedes Benz Citric Acid powder for flushing out cooling systems with good results in the past. I use this process: Mercedes coolant flush
I've recently used the Zerex cleaner on my TJ, based on the recommendation of some dude at NAPA, followed the directions, but when all was said and done, looking down into the radiator through the opening for the cap, there's just as much chalky white build up as there was before. I don't think I accomplished any more than I could have by just taking $8 out of my pocket and lighting it on fire.
Is there a flush/cleaner that actually works? Never heard of that Mercedes powder before, I've done the Prestone add a T to your heater hose thing before, and it didn't work any better than the Zerex stuff I've used most recently.
The other possibility in a Dexcool scenario is that the same gunk that's showing up inside the rad is also inside the block/head. The only way I know to test the various cleaners is to try them and see what happens. All this assumes that the rest of the system is in good working order - system holds pressure, t'stat working properly, fan working properly, any of the aerodynamic doo-dads needed to help air move across the rad are present and accounted for (lower air dams, 'splash shields', etc.).
Well, she's happy for now. Let's see how it gets when the trips get longer and the weather gets hotter:
Tiffany wrote: I just got home from class and she did not hit the noon position until I drove in the driveway. Good Job! Problem solved. HURRAH!!! I am so happy your adopted me. Thank you so much for all the wonderful things you do.
Good news -- hoping it holds up.
It did not!
A week, it took.
Tiffany wrote: Well I guess you were right to be suspicious about the Jeep. It is heating up again. It started Wed. I did not realize I had a review paper to turn in so I left school to come home and get it. I left my house about 1 and did not get home until 5 with multiple stops and filling the radiator with water. It was fine going to the kennel yesterday but going home the needle was right on the white line that brackets the red flag when I pulled in the driveway and I did not go anywhere but straight home. I had to add about half of a very large bucket the gas station had. I am guessing about 1/3 gallon, probably less because he spilled a lot on the ground.
I am back to the radiator.
Does anyone know any good radiator shops in Greenville that can recore this thing or clean the devil Dexcool, or is it better to just buy a new one? And then:
You sure its losing water out the radiator? An external leak of that flow would be obvious. Pull the spark plugs and see what color they are.
Also, how's the radiator cap? Might be worth testing.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: You sure its losing water out the radiator? An external leak of that flow would be obvious. Pull the spark plugs and see what color they are. Also, how's the radiator cap? Might be worth testing.
I think it boiled away the motor.
The cap is new. Plugs are dry.
In reply to tuna55: I think that your back to the HG, more so than the radiator. The dexcool becomes very acidic when its contaminated, all that nasty goop that comes out with the bad dexcool is the materials that it has eaten away from the internal engine parts.
I've seen water pump impellers eroded to nothing, and even a block with a hole eaten through it from contaminated dexcool. Both were on GM 4.3 industrial engines . The rampant intake manifold gasket failures on the GM fwd v6 engines has been attributed to contaminated dexcool eating the gaskets too.
For your sake, I hope that I'm wrong.
Well in this case the impeller was indeed eroded to nothing. Wouldn't a head gasket have a more major effect and a more immediate effect?
anyway to check between those two without money?
If the impeller was eroded completely away that means it's been leaving crap throughout the cooling system for a while. That will block the steam holes etc and cause localized overheating.
I'm still thinking HG (yeah I know, dammit) but here's something you might try: uno) raise the rear of the car about a foot, maybe 18 inches 2) remove the water pump and thermostat, take all the heater hoses etc off iii) use a garden hose to flush hell out of the block going from back to front, let it pour out of the water pump opening. The reason is that all the junk will travel to the back of the engine and collect there, you should have seen the crap come out of 2.5's and 4.0's when I was at the Jeep place. 
I have seen what looked like river rock come rolling out. Oh by the way don't do this on concrete because the rust stains won't come out.
Remove the radiator and REVERSE FLUSH it, i.e. from the bottom to the top. While you are at it, do the same for the heater hoses and heater core because there's likely to be crap stuck in there as well. You want to reverse flush from the OPPOSITE direction of normal coolant flow, that's because crap will build up first on the side that coolant starts into the radiator or heater core.
Radiator shops that can truly 'boil out' a radiator are pretty well shut down thanks to the EPA. The only real way out of that one is to replace it. Of course the engine has to be clean inside, otherwise it will clog the new radiator.
And of course be SURE it's overheating before jumping into all this. IIRC the temp sender is on the stat housing? if y'all are going by the original dash gauge it might be worth pointing an infrared thermometer at it, see what it's really running. IIRC 205 is about right but check behind me!
One other thing: remember 4.0's have two different water pumps. One's for conventional rotation, the other is reverse for use with a serpentine belt. Vane design is different, it's worth verifying that you have the right one.
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