Learn me component compatibility..... And future bicycle build

So this will be my "other" ride's build thread, and also were you peeps in the hive the know your cycling can school me. 

For those that never venture to the motorcar side of the forum, here is my short intro:

My name is Corné Neethling, screen name StripesSA1, born in 1986. 

I live in Bloemfontein in the Free State Province of South Africa and I am a counter partsalesman at one of the Midas's in town. 

Midas is a auto parts franchise, much like the USA's Rock Auto. 

I have 3 threads in the Builds and Project Cars forum: My SA spec VW FOX, My wife's GWM H5 and Some crazy E36 M3 I do in the garage. 

Said garage is more a gated car port, than an actual garage. 

So back story on below item's in question.... 

My brother in law is a monster of a man, 'bout 2.02/2.03meters tall and weighing in at a "lean" 120kilograms. I did tip the scales at 160kg a while back. 

Ao he had this 26" Kona Coiler that he used to ride, and then after having the rear shock set at it' s hardest/firmest, and still bottoming out, he parked it and went with a 29er and custom build suspension. 

Subsequently he stripped this bicycle for some spares to fix his wife's and the frame and parts ended up in storage. 

When cleaning out he gave me the frame and all his odds and ends. 

And so my journey into FS bicycles have started. 

Now my question is, what of these components will work with each other, and if somebody has any service manuals for some of the suspension parts. 

Firstly, the front shock.... 

Rock Shox 426 Pike U-turn.

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Definitely in need of a lube job since the oil leaked out... It is an non air shock... Also can shock lock out be added and does any body have a service manual for it. 

Next lucky winner for a question is the rear shock

Fox DHX 5.0....with some funny red turn button

Again, if someone has a manual for it or a diagram and setup chart, I would appreciate it. 

And lastly, shifter and derailleur 

Shifter is a Sram X-9, which seems to have a small inner working problem(not free shifting) and a Sram X-5 long cage derailleur. 

Not pictured is a Shimano (model to be inserted) short cage derailleur. 

Photo to follow later. 

Now a couple of questions and variables that I will add later:

Chain is unknown brand

The cassette is also an unknown(needs some cleaning) and will count the number of cogs and teeth for a future reference. 

Bicycle was setup as a 1x, but not a true 1x, as the front chainring was disassembled from a 3x setup and front derailleur was removed. 

Now what I also do not have a phot of is a similar Sram X-9 3x front shifter and a Shimano front derailleur. 

Will the Sram and Shimano components be compatible with each other? 

I do not do a lot of downhill, since the Free State province is some times called the Flat State province and an anthill is the largest hill around, so this bicycle will be redone with a 3x setup, and all pivot points will receive new bearings. 

I can see if I can help with other details later, but wanted to start with suspension adjustment details. It is best to get spring and preload in the ballpark first, then adjust damping to match. Measuring sag is the best way to check springs, and is best done with a helper. A Google search on sag measurement will point you towards some online guides. 
I can also let you know that the bicycle industry has pretty much settled on red anodized knobs/levers for rebound damping adjustment, and blue anodized for compression damping adjustment, with clockwise being more (slower) and counterclockwise less (faster.) If you don't have separate low and high speed adjusters, the compression damping adjustment is likely focused on low speed to minimize bobbing, but still respond to a sharp hit. Check the bottom of the fork legs for rebound damping adjustment. There are exceptions to these rules, but that will get you a start on suspension setup if you can't get more detailed setup information.

Blue for bump, red for rebound :) I'll bet you can pull up the manuals for both shocks.

Yup. Front and rear

If the oil has leaked out of the front fork, I'd look at a full rebuild with new seals and packers. Front shocks take a lot of abuse because their load paths are all over the place.

(current status: replacing the 3x9 drivetrain on my 2007 Rocky Mountain with used XTR parts off eBay right now)

ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) said:

I can see if I can help with other details later, but wanted to start with suspension adjustment details. It is best to get spring and preload in the ballpark first, then adjust damping to match. Measuring sag is the best way to check springs, and is best done with a helper. A Google search on sag measurement will point you towards some online guides. 
I can also let you know that the bicycle industry has pretty much settled on red anodized knobs/levers for rebound damping adjustment, and blue anodized for compression damping adjustment, with clockwise being more (slower) and counterclockwise less (faster.) If you don't have separate low and high speed adjusters, the compression damping adjustment is likely focused on low speed to minimize bobbing, but still respond to a sharp hit. Check the bottom of the fork legs for rebound damping adjustment. There are exceptions to these rules, but that will get you a start on suspension setup if you can't get more detailed setup information.

Thanks a lot. When I am in the garage again, I will get a photo of the bottom of the fork, as well as the top of the rear shock.

Will also have a look at setting sag

Keith Tanner said:

Blue for bump, red for rebound :) I'll bet you can pull up the manuals for both shocks.

Yup. Front and rear

If the oil has leaked out of the front fork, I'd look at a full rebuild with new seals and packers. Front shocks take a lot of abuse because their load paths are all over the place.

(current status: replacing the 3x9 drivetrain on my 2007 Rocky Mountain with used XTR parts off eBay right now)

Will contact Enduro Cycles in Bloemfontein as soon as they open for a rebuild kit plus fork oil. 

And thanks for the links. Will print them out when I start the rebuild

Re: mix and match. In general, rear shifters need to be brand matched to derailleur. You can mix up and down within a brands different levels, but the motion ratio is different between Shimano and SRAM. Cassettes and chains can be anything, so long as they're the right # speeds to match. Front derailleurs... I think Shimano and SRAM have the same motion ratio so you can mix and match if you're in a bind.

Brotus7 said:

Re: mix and match. In general, rear shifters need to be brand matched to derailleur. You can mix up and down within a brands different levels, but the motion ratio is different between Shimano and SRAM. Cassettes and chains can be anything, so long as they're the right # speeds to match. Front derailleurs... I think Shimano and SRAM have the same motion ratio so you can mix and match if you're in a bind.

Thanks Brotus. That is what I wanted to know. 

The Sram trigger shifter is a 9 speed, while the casette counted out to 8, so that would have already been a issue for alignment.

So while getting some stuff together for some pool maintenance, I snapped a couple of photos 

Pike Uturn does have the red rebound button as mentioned by ae86

And the manuals linked by Keith gave me the idea to look for these two buttons on the rear shock 

Now by the looks of that valve in th above photo, I will look at the manual again tomorrow, cause that looks like an air valve. 

The short cage Shimano 105 rear derailleur 

And in a box I found the handle bar with the Bravvos hydraulic disc brakes still attached to it, as well as the Bravvos 8 speed shifter

In the same box the bicycle's original cable operated disc brake levers and calipers. 

And the cassette on the rear wheel

So I still need the photos of the front derailleur and shifter. What is left looks like a bottom pull 3 speed derailleur, a Sram 3 speed trigger shifter and what looks like the parts to a 3x chain ring. 

What I already bought is the BB(bottom bracket) and need to by is a set of flat pedals, since the cranks are there also. 

So the POA(Plan Of Action/Attack) is to assembled the bicycle and see that everything is functioning as it should, and then blow it apart for part swapping where needed. But everything will be cleaned an lubed in each one of those assembly processes. 

Spend some time in the garage again tonight and went through the box of goodies and had a look at the front 3x Sram X-9 shifter

And had a look at the Shimano Altus 3x front derailleur 

Will take a better pic of both later. 

So now the question was already answered before, so I will run these two together and see if it works. If not, I will try and find a matching Bravvos 3x shifter, or go ghetto 1x like my BIL had it. 

The short caged Shimano 105 rear derailleur had me thinking, this part does not look like most MTB derailleurs. 

After some Googling, I found it to be a road bike derailleur. 

Make: Shimano

Model: 105 Rd(I guess for road) 5600

Speed range: 10speed

Some screenshots of an Ebay add that features my specific derailleur. 

So I know the Bravvos 8speed shifter worked on the 105 derailleur and the 8 speed cassette, but my question is, how efficient is it exactly? 

105 is a road bike group. You want Deore for mountain bikes. I'm not sure I'd use a short cage unless you have a pretty small range of gearing. You CAN use a short cage on a mountain bike but there will be potential gear combos that might rip it apart. I had a Fisher AL-1 back in the 90s that was like that. 

Keith Tanner said:

105 is a road bike group. You want Deore for mountain bikes. I'm not sure I'd use a short cage unless you have a pretty small range of gearing. You CAN use a short cage on a mountain bike but there will be potential gear combos that might rip it apart. I had a Fisher AL-1 back in the 90s that was like that. 

That will explain why my BIL had it setup as an 8speed 1x.

In that case, I will install the front chain rings and derailleur and shifter, but not the cable, and when I get the right derailleur replace it and install the cable and make it a 3x

Got an itch last night, and 30mins to spare and did some cleaning of the derailleur, mounted it and rear wheel 

Also found the new BB amongst the items

Then one thing led to another 

Just need a top headset bearing

And a quick mount of the drive side crank and chainring

There is no mounting hardware for the chainring, according to my BIL, the BB and hardware is what he used from this bicycle to fix his wife's. Had to cobble together some bolts and nuts just for last night's fitting. 

I will be getting some decent bolts an nuts. Also tried to see how to mount the rest of the 3x rings, only to notice that all of the chainrings are either (3x of) 24T and (2x of) 36T and (1x of) 34T. So after some digging, I found European only Kona's were 3x and ROW got 2x, BUT, there always has to be a but, the PPO of the bicycle ground down the smaller chainring's stand off flat for the 1x conversion. So will be running that with the 105 derailleur. 

A photo of the Truvativ 34T chain ring. I suspect I have it mounted wrong way, but it was just a quick mount and measure situation. 

Looks like a good starting point! Get that thing down off the hook and give it a good wash. Seals and oil change on forks are typically pretty easy so you are on the right path there. There's lots of adjustment on that rear shock too but with a coil spring it should really be changed to suit the rider, sounds like a higher rate would have been good for your brother in law. It's funny with bikes, Shimano/Sram won't give you anything to do a simple seal change on a brake lever or caliper but the suspension companies will give you all the details to get deep down into their products to do full rebuilds.

The 1 x 8 with a road derailleur sounds like a downhill setup to me, great if you are riding lift access bike parks and racing pointed down but not fun if you have to pedal up. My memory is a little fuzzy but I believe that 10 speed road derailleurs would work any shimano mtb shifter up to 9 speeds (match shifter to cassette and chain), I was usually thinking about doing the opposite, using a 10 speed road brifter with a 9 speed mountain derailleur.

adam525i said:

Looks like a good starting point! Get that thing down off the hook and give it a good wash. Seals and oil change on forks are typically pretty easy so you are on the right path there. There's lots of adjustment on that rear shock too but with a coil spring it should really be changed to suit the rider, sounds like a higher rate would have been good for your brother in law. It's funny with bikes, Shimano/Sram won't give you anything to do a simple seal change on a brake lever or caliper but the suspension companies will give you all the details to get deep down into their products to do full rebuilds.

The 1 x 8 with a road derailleur sounds like a downhill setup to me, great if you are riding lift access bike parks and racing pointed down but not fun if you have to pedal up. My memory is a little fuzzy but I believe that 10 speed road derailleurs would work any shimano mtb shifter up to 9 speeds (match shifter to cassette and chain), I was usually thinking about doing the opposite, using a 10 speed road brifter with a 9 speed mountain derailleur.

Thanks adam525i.

It is off the hooks already and semi assembled. 

Th fork leaked it's oil out because it dropped down upside down, and I didn't notice. The frame was hanging in one side of the garage, and the front wheel and fork combo was standing on the other side, and it was knocked over then. 

I am thinking to just clean and top up the fork and see what happens. 

Funny thing you should mention the info/parts diagram available. I phoned 3 of our LBSs, and they all want me to book in the bicycle so they can assemble it, set it up and fix what is needed, that is after I tell them I just need X amount of Y parts and I need the price for the budget.

And you mention the downhill thing, and BIL said the PPO did live in the Western Cape Province when he had this bike, and there are a lot of downhill trails, so I think you are right about it being setup for DH, especially with the 140mm fork.

I also suspect he was rather a small, lightweight guy, because yesterday evening I sat down on the bicycle, and the shock also started to compress quickly. But mention must be made, I did not set the sag yet, so once that is set, I will see if I also need a stiffer spring, and then where I can get it.

Note: I am not as tall or heavy as my BIL, me being 1.8m(5,9ft according to Google) and weighing in at 110kg(242US-lbs)

Some 9 and 10 speed parts will play nice with one another but not so much once you get to 11 speed and beyond. I'm on a 1x9 Microshift groupset on my gravel bike and couldn't be happier. Less shifting and no front derailleur to worry about. 

dxman92 said:

Some 9 and 10 speed parts will play nice with one another but not so much once you get to 11 speed and beyond. I'm on a 1x9 Microshift groupset on my gravel bike and couldn't be happier. Less shifting and no front derailleur to worry about. 

I am going to keep her 1x8 as the front derailleur is a top swing, doesn't have far enough reach down. Also as is evident by the photo below, someone ground down the smaller chainring's mounting nubs

Also rummaged through my box o' goodies, and found the larger chainring's mounting screws. Obviously I picked the one with the knackered spline drive over the good out of the 5, but will change it over when clearance the bash guard for the little pin on the chain ring

And wide angle for the mounted chainring. After some back and forth, seems this is the way to mount it in

Will be cleaning and painting the bash guard as well to have it looking good again

The bashguard before sanding and cleaning

And after sanding with some 40grit and cleaning. Will be finishing it with 220 and the 400 and the do something interesting and unique before committing to the black. Hope it works out well

One of the office ladies is very artsy and creative, but got the logo just a small bit wrong... Needs to be mirrored for the idea to work.... 

Alrighty then.... Let's try this again

Much better... 

And also found a headset bearing. Top one of the two is one I had, bottom was one I needed

Running road rear derailleurs with tight-ratio cassettes was a thing for DH bikes back in the days before Shimano and SRAM introduced DH-specific groupsets.  I used to run a short cage 3x setup on one of my XC bikes, but it definitely had a restricted gear-range. In the big ring up front, only about half of the 8 cassette cogs could be used or it would lock up. And it was fairly tight ratio cassette; 11-30.  But in the ranges it would work, shifting was amazing. Granted, they were XTR parts so the performance should be good for the $$$ spent.

The air-valve on the shock is for nitrogen charging after rebuilding.  Don't touch it. 

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

Running road rear derailleurs with tight-ratio cassettes was a thing for DH bikes back in the days before Shimano and SRAM introduced DH-specific groupsets.  I used to run a short cage 3x setup on one of my XC bikes, but it definitely had a restricted gear-range. In the big ring up front, only about half of the 8 cassette cogs could be used or it would lock up. And it was fairly tight ratio cassette; 11-30.  But in the ranges it would work, shifting was amazing. Granted, they were XTR parts so the performance should be good for the $$$ spent.

The air-valve on the shock is for nitrogen charging after rebuilding.  Don't touch it. 

Duly noted