A rant on pro-rating.

So if I go down to most any place that sells car batteries, they have different levels of battery for me to buy, with different length of warranties. the battery with the shortest warranty costs $50 (for example) and the battery with the five year warranty costs $100 (for example.)

so if i buy the $100 dollar battery, and it fails after two years, and i bring it back what do they do? they "PRORATE" it, they deduct the amount of time ive used it, from the cost of the new battery and charge me for that time... THIS PISSES ME OFF!

First of all , didn't i pay more for the battery with a longer warranty already? I paid for a battery that should, in effect cost me $20 per year, for five years. But, it didn't do what they said it would (assuming the car charging system isn't to fault) and toasted itself after only two years. Now they charge me back $20 per year that it did work, on a battery ive already paid for. so the "warranty replacement " battery costs me $40 more.. Now my total investment in a five year warrantied battery is $140, or $28 per year. if THAT battery fails again after another two years, its going to cost me an addition $80 for a "warrantied" replacement battery, as ive now used that warranty for FOUR years..

this brings my $100 battery with a five year warranty to cost me $220, or $44 a year, not to mention the six trips back and fourth to the store and time pulling and replacing the thing.

So, I /We the consumer are expected to pay more for a product that is guaranteed to work for a certain amount of time, BUT when it fails, they expect you pay for that failure. What a great scam eh? just like insurance taking your money for years than dropping you as soon as you get in a fender bender.

If id have bought the $50 battery in the first place, and replaced it every two years, id of had battery for 6 years and it would've cost $70 less... OR I should of spent my money on a battery vendor that does not prorate.. I wonder if there are any that dont pro-rate?

I just think if i pay for something that has a five year warranty, it should last five years, and if it doesn't, they need to replace it free of charge because they didn't live up to their promise, be it a battery, a widget, or whatever...

right? wrong? discuss...

Buy the cheap one. It's probably the same battery in a different color case. I usually run the Walmart specials in everything. They're cheap and I have never had a problem with them.

So if you bought four new tires, wore them bald before the mileage warranty is up, I (the auto parts seller) should give you four brand new tires for nothing?

No, you're going to get credit back for the mileage you didn't recieve, towards a new set of tires.

But those new sets of tires are going to have a new warranty, not a continuation of the old warranty.

You have to know that there is more to the $100 battery that makes it sell for twice as much as the other battery then just the warranty. The thing that you need to do figure out is what the extra features and benefits that the more expensive battery has and what they are worth to you. Is it a trusted name brand? More amps/watts or whatever? The warranty is a valid feature that you may pay more for but I would never even consider paying extra for. In your above scenario, I would always rather have 2 cheap-o parts then one good one (or one cheap part and the cash to replace it in my pocket).

Remember David Wallens' "Trusted Allies" article from an issue or two ago? That goes for parts stores too. Just last week, my black Corrado killed another battery (and I thought I had it licked this time! I've disconnected every single plug & removed every single relay in the $%^#$%&^#%&#%^#% motorized belts..), this one from Autozone, and a little less than a year old. Credit where credit's due, it did this once when the battery was 3mos old, and when they checked & charged it the thing was good as new. But this time, it wouldn't hold a charge.

I go to this AZ a lot, even after we moved (there's one closer to the new place, but the staff stinks). When she saw the thing wasn't going to revive this time, she immediately started filling out the warranty work. When I asked if this might be a problem, since the battery was fine before I stuck it in my German Voltage Drain she said, "..I won't tell em if you won't, darlin'..."

An old buddy of mine in college was manager of a bar. He used to say that the "regulars" were only 30% of the crowd, but 80% of the profit, and you better be good to them.

Find a parts outlet that understands this.

Don't get baffled by batteries; As soon as you start comparing similar types(lead acid. lithium ion etc) they all boil down to stats. Pretty much you get Amp Hours (ah) and Cranking Amps and Cold Cranking Amps

If the numbers are the same, buy the cheaper one. It annoys me to no end that I can't see an amp hour rating on my AA batteries.

Damn, now I find this post. See this one http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/battery-differences/13567/page1/

With the varied interests and experiences of the member on this board I bet someone knows the answer to this question.

Is there any difference between automotive batteries? Is there a great difference between say the 72-month battery and the 36-month battery? Are you paying more money just for the longer warranty period? What is the difference between the batteries at Sprawl Mart and PepAdvanceZone? I seem to recall mention years ago that there were only about three battery factories in the USA. Still true?

mith612 wrote: So if you bought four new tires, wore them bald before the mileage warranty is up, I (the auto parts seller) should give you four brand new tires for nothing?

yes, you should. if your tires cant meet the mileage guarantee , which is a condition of the original sale, than the consumer should not have to pay for the failure of those tires to meet that promise, even in part, in my opinion. Ive already paid for the use of those tires in the initial purchase for the full amount of mileage they were guaranteed for, now you want to charge me again? that's just wrong..

Prorating is simply a device which allows companies to place the expense of the failure of the product they sell, back on the consumer. shouldn't the manufacturer, who is responsible for the claims of longevity, also be responsible when that product fails?

Actually, im just making a point.. kinda tired of being hit for $$ at both ends when the products fail..

as for actual batteries.. i gave up buying high end , i get them at evilmart now, and recently had one replaced after three years (5 year battery) and they didnt pro rate it, no charge at all.. guess where ill buy batteries from now on??

924guy wrote:

mith612 wrote: So if you bought four new tires, wore them bald before the mileage warranty is up, I (the auto parts seller) should give you four brand new tires for nothing?

yes, you should. if your tires cant meet the mileage guarantee , which is a condition of the original sale, than the consumer should not have to pay for the failure of those tires to meet that promise, even in part, in my opinion.

The reason for prorating is this:

You bought 50,000 mile warrantied tires, but only got 25,000 out of them. Could be they were defective, could be you didn't do enough rotations and alignments, could be you have a heavy right foot or think neutral drops at 6000 rpm is fine for tires. I give you another set of 50,000 mile tires for free and, for whatever reason, they last the full warranty. Now you've gotten 75,000 warrantied miles when you've only paid for 50,000. How is that fair to me, the tire seller?

On the other hand, you bought 50,000 mile tires but only got 25,000 from them. You come in, I give you new tires for only half cost. You've now paid for 75,000 miles of warrantied tires, and you have new 50,000 mile tires on the car. Last time I checked, 25,000 + 50,000 = 75,000.

Should be easy math.

You have no idea how much of this E36 M3 I have to contend with on a daily basis, simply because people think they deserve something for nothing.

makes perfect sense to me the way mith explained it. if you want a battery that will last longer than 3 years, but will get replaced in the unlikely event that it doesn't, buy the duralast gold from AZ, they come with a 3 year full-replacement warranty, with another 5 years prorated (from date of purchase, mind you) after that for a total of 8 years of warranty for the battery. when i was working at AZ, we'd have people come in with five to seven year old duralast gold batteries to be replaced. 5 years on a car battery is AARP card status, seven is damn near ancient

mith612 wrote:

924guy wrote:

mith612 wrote: So if you bought four new tires, wore them bald before the mileage warranty is up, I (the auto parts seller) should give you four brand new tires for nothing?

yes, you should. if your tires cant meet the mileage guarantee , which is a condition of the original sale, than the consumer should not have to pay for the failure of those tires to meet that promise, even in part, in my opinion.

The reason for prorating is this: You bought 50,000 mile warrantied tires, but only got 25,000 out of them. Could be they were defective, could be you didn't do enough rotations and alignments, could be you have a heavy right foot or think neutral drops at 6000 rpm is fine for tires. I give you another set of 50,000 mile tires for free and, for whatever reason, they last the full warranty. Now you've gotten 75,000 warrantied miles when you've only paid for 50,000. How is that fair to me, the tire seller? On the other hand, you bought 50,000 mile tires but only got 25,000 from them. You come in, I give you new tires for only half cost. You've now paid for 75,000 miles of warrantied tires, and you have new 50,000 mile tires on the car. Last time I checked, 25,000 + 50,000 = 75,000. Should be easy math. You have no idea how much of this E36 M3 I have to contend with on a daily basis, simply because people think they deserve something for nothing.

Im going to disagree...

On the other hand, you bought 50,000 mile tires but only got 25,000 from them. You come in, I give you new tires for only half cost.

hmm, okay.. what if i come in with the tires that for arguments sake, i paid $400 for, and they only lasted for half the warrantied life span. I dont want those tires again because theyre crap.. are you going to give me $200 in cash back?? that would be a fair resolution , would it not? but ive yet to be given that option.. i think id break my jaw on the pavement if i heard it too..

local business shouldn't have to eat the cost, this should be covered by the manufacturer, its not "your" fault either.. but if your gonna sell it, you gotta back it up.. otherwise, its just the consumer thats getting screwed on both ends...

924guy wrote: hmm, okay.. what if i come in with the tires that for arguments sake, i paid $400 for, and they only lasted for half the warrantied life span. I dont want those tires again because theyre crap.. are you going to give me $200 in cash back?? that would be a fair resolution , would it not? but ive yet to be given that option.. i think id break my jaw on the pavement if i heard it too.. local business shouldn't have to eat the cost, this should be covered by the manufacturer, its not "your" fault either.. but if your gonna sell it, you gotta back it up.. otherwise, its just the consumer thats getting screwed on both ends...

At that point you'd still need tires, so for most people, cash back isn't even a consideration. What I've done is to put someone in a different set of tires that they hopefully like better. You'd still get the half of what you paid (not half of what the new tires are, obviously) applied to the new tires, new warranty, whole new shebang.

In the one instance I've seen where trying three or four different sets didn't satisfy the customer, we were able to offer the prorated amount of money back (it was paid credit so it went back on their card) (can't be giving cash back for a credit sale, after all) but it had to get approved through the office.

I do what I can to take care of my customers, but you can't think that I should just blindly give anyone who complains whatever they want. Hell no.

at the zone, if you tell them you replaced the part with another from a different store, they'll refund your original purchase price from the warranty. of course, then you'd be out the core charge for the new one if you actually did that.

Battery in my truck just died after 9 months, took it in got a free replacement. Bought the HD spendy battery with 2 year free replacement and 8 year prorated after that. Do I have a problem with the pro rate? Nope its right there in the warranty and I have dealt with enough business where I had to prorate services and the like because of some screw up.

Look at it this way if they didn't prorate it like in the case of tires I could go out thrash the hell out of the car wearing the tires down even faster and have a continuous supply of new tires because they would never meet the warranty mileage a guarantee you if I just had to wear them out to get a fresh set.

I have a $20 tractor battery in my car. The warranty is if it goes bad I throw it away and buy another $20 tractor battery.

Cheap batteries go bad more often than expensive batteries. The plates on cheap batteries are poorly held in place, which means vibrations shake them loose and they short out against each other. Better batteries have a grid system that holds the plates more firmly, so the vibrations (which are inevitable) won't shake them loose as much.

Spiral cell (Optima) batteries rarely, if ever, have this problem.

Timeormoney wrote: If the numbers are the same, buy the cheaper one. It annoys me to no end that I can't see an amp hour rating on my AA batteries.

?? Basically every battery I own has a mAh rating on it.

I just replaced the battery in my wifes Altima. The sticker on the side said it was manufactured in 9/01 that makes it 8 years old. Assuming it was a year old when installed (dont know when it was installed, It was in the car when we bought it) that means a seven year old battery failed. I aint complaining. I did get 9 years out of the original battery in my Ranger. I wish I knew what I did to get that kind of service.

The battery in my Liberty is approaching 7 yrs old. It's the original battery. I keep looking for signs that it is dying, none yet. I want to be able to replace it with an equal one, when the time comes.

Depending on where you go, you will get X-months of "Free Replacement". THat was typically the difference on a lot of AZ Duralst batteries. It was 12mo, 24, or 36 month free replacement with 5yr, 6yr or 7 year prorated warranties. As well as more CCA, Reserve power and CA to go with the more expensive batteries.

If you go to some cheapo shop that won't offer free replacement for any length of time, then IMO you better expect a junk battery

I've got an interstate battery dist. center near me. They don't advertise it, but if you walk in and ask for a blemished battery (cosmetic defect) - you'll walk out with a new battery for $20. Last one I got had OEM Acura logos - one corner of the plastic edge was deformed. It outlasted one of the new optima red-tops (they don't last like they did with previous ownership).

mith612 wrote:

924guy wrote: hmm, okay.. what if i come in with the tires that for arguments sake, i paid $400 for, and they only lasted for half the warrantied life span. I dont want those tires again because theyre crap.. are you going to give me $200 in cash back?? that would be a fair resolution , would it not? but ive yet to be given that option.. i think id break my jaw on the pavement if i heard it too.. local business shouldn't have to eat the cost, this should be covered by the manufacturer, its not "your" fault either.. but if your gonna sell it, you gotta back it up.. otherwise, its just the consumer thats getting screwed on both ends...

At that point you'd still need tires, so for most people, cash back isn't even a consideration. What I've done is to put someone in a different set of tires that they hopefully like better. You'd still get the half of what you paid (not half of what the new tires are, obviously) applied to the new tires, new warranty, whole new shebang. In the one instance I've seen where trying three or four different sets didn't satisfy the customer, we were able to offer the prorated amount of money back (it was paid credit so it went back on their card) (can't be giving cash back for a credit sale, after all) but it had to get approved through the office. I do what I can to take care of my customers, but you can't think that I should just blindly give anyone who complains whatever they want. Hell no.

mith612, I see your point about tires, but in this case we're talking about batteries. How would someone misuse a battery on purpose? 1000 watt stereo? Launching a thousand Estes model rockets? Shorting the wires on purpose to light a cigarette?

I'm not making light of your comment, as I've also seen what people do to tires-and you're right about that. Just mounting a new set every time someone came in with a "defect" would bankrupt a lot of stores. I'm just asking everyone to consider that different parts live in different environments.

In reply to friedgreencorrado:

i had a guy come in with a melted down battery that had been directly wired to the winch, no fuse, and parked outside. apparently someone walked by and flipped the winch to "in" just for fun.

the bajillion watt stereo is another way to abuse your battery if you don't have a properly rated alternator

Strizzo wrote: In reply to friedgreencorrado: i had a guy come in with a melted down battery that had been directly wired to the winch, no fuse, and parked outside. apparently someone walked by and flipped the winch to "in" just for fun. the bajillion watt stereo is another way to abuse your battery if you don't have a properly rated alternator

To quote the old Carfax ads..."people do some strange things to cars"..I guess that since it's just a hobby for me, I haven't seen things like that.

I am thinking about buying a garden tractor battery for my Miata next time. I don't have a radio or any real electronic gizmos (like interior lighting) to power. It should do the job.

When the battery exploded in my dad's GMC Jimmy 10 years ago, my dad, friend, and I found ourselves at an airfield for RC planes alone with no cell phone. We eventually decided to rig up the tractor battery that we had been using to run the chargers and starters for the little planes. The thing ran like a champ!