Aggressive/Suicidal Bicyclists

when I ride my bike, it's to commute. I'm a mountain biker, granted, and the only form fitting clothes I own are underarmors and one set of shorts liners, but I do make it a point to obey the rules of the road as best I can, and it serves me well usually. when I go up to visit my girlfriend, who lives in an area that has a fully paved bike path running through it, (it is literally like a road, nicely maintained asphalt and dividing line down the middle and all, it's just a LOT narrower than a regular road, it's about 1.5 car lanes wide) I encounter more people riding on the road that runs parallel to said bike path than I care to think about. seriously people, you were given YOUR OWN ROAD TO RIDE ON, yet you still ride on a road with many blind curves and crests that's slightly narrower than your average one lane each way road. I'm not a road cyclist in Loudoun County, so I don't know the mentality of a lot of riders up there, but it seems like to me, I'd rather use what was built specifically for user groups similar to mine (equestrians, runners, and cyclists) than risk my neck trying to share the road with cars that are just as likely to not see me or not care if I become a speed bump

The problem with greenways is they get overrun with joggers wearing ipods who don't hear you coming and either get startled or wander in front of you, dogs on nearly invisible leashes that are stretched almost all of the way across the path ready to clothesline you, accompanied by children on little tiny bikes riding in the one foot of path not blocked by leash, inline skaters, and people walking that don't like encountering cyclists on "their path" any more than some of the drivers do.

In reply to Slyp_Dawg:

Ok. Find an average road cyclist... even some out of shape slob like me... and take him on this path... and start walking... looking at trees... birds... listening to your iPod... now ask your cyclist friend to wait a few minutes and then pass you at a typical cruising speed and come back and tell us what it was like.

You really don't know what you're talking about here. Bikes don't belong on jogging paths.

EastCoastMojo wrote: The problem with greenways is they get overrun with joggers wearing ipods who don't hear you coming and either get startled or wander in front of you, dogs on nearly invisible leashes that are stretched almost all of the way across the path ready to clothesline you, accompanied by children on little tiny bikes riding in the one foot of path not blocked by leash, inline skaters, and people walking that don't like encountering cyclists on "their path" any more than some of the drivers do.

...and parents who have no issue letting Hayden, Kayden and Brayden block the entire path road-block style because they're basking in their little moment of family fun.

That said--I just tend to blast through all of that.

I hae gotten sick of our cyclists. They are too cool to use the bike lanes that have been put all over the city, and feel that we should accomodate any stupid thing they feel like doing. Now they seem to be into breaking windows and mirrors. They ride in the blind spot of a 60 ft long bus, when the bus signals it moving right and 6 amber lights flash on the right side of the bus they try to pass on the right. When they almost get run over they take their lock and smash a window or mirror.

One thing I keep coming back to ..... Most of the people here are usually reasonable, sane adults. That's one reason I keep comig back. After reading this thread, I can't help but think that I have misjudged the cycling community in general.

Most of the people I ride with are respectful of traffic and obey the laws. I really thought it was that way most places, and the idiot cyclists were the exception.

I have enough respect for the people on this board that I now have to believe this many people being pissed must have a pretty good reason.

And that makes me kind of disappointed in the cycling community in general.

EastCoastMojo wrote: The problem with greenways is they get overrun with joggers wearing ipods who don't hear you coming and either get startled or wander in front of you, dogs on nearly invisible leashes that are stretched almost all of the way across the path ready to clothesline you, accompanied by children on little tiny bikes riding in the one foot of path not blocked by leash, inline skaters, and people walking that don't like encountering cyclists on "their path" any more than some of the drivers do.

Nicely put, and funny too!

ultraclyde wrote: One thing I keep coming back to ..... Most of the people here are usually reasonable, sane adults.

Reasonable, yes. Sane? Are you nucking futz?

Hmmm...as sane as I am? birds of a feather, you know....

In reply to Ian F:

Slyp_Dawg mentioned Loudoun County so I assume he is referring to the W&OD trail. He described it pefectly and its more than wide enough for bikes and pedestrians to safely get around eachother.

http://www.nvrpa.org/park/w_od_railroad

In reply to EastCoastMojo: A valid point, but its kind of ironic how similar that can be to cyclists on a roadway.... Both have a right to be where they are, and bigger, faster, modes of transportation, while possibly being inconvenienced, should slow down and use caution around them. I mean, whats the rush anyways?

Damn aggressive/suicidal pedestrians, always ruining my bike rides.

failboat wrote: In reply to Ian F: Slyp_Dawg mentioned Loudoun County so I assume he is referring to the W&OD trail. He described it pefectly and its more than wide enough for bikes and pedestrians to safely get around eachother.

I've ridden that path as well as other rails-to-trails paths and no, there really is NOT enough room when you're dealing with closing speeds with pedestrians exceeding 20 mph. Many of the bike paths around the Philly area have 7 mph speed limits for bikes. Even when riding my mtn bikes, I have trouble going that slow. On my road bike, under optimal conditions, I can easily cruise at 22 mph without working very hard to do it. Get a few guys together and 25 mph plus is their "cool-down" speed.

Again, if you really know what it's like to ride at training speeds, then you know that multi-use non-motorized paths are not a viable option.

failboat wrote: In reply to EastCoastMojo: A valid point, but its kind of ironic how similar that can be to cyclists on a roadway.... Both have a right to be where they are, and bigger, faster, modes of transportation, while possibly being inconvenienced, should slow down and use caution around them. I mean, whats the rush anyways? Damn aggressive/suicidal pedestrians, always ruining my bike rides.

My subtle way of saying no one wants us no matter where we go. On the road we are too slow and on the paths we are too fast or too quiet.

Ian F wrote:

failboat wrote: In reply to Ian F: Slyp_Dawg mentioned Loudoun County so I assume he is referring to the W&OD trail. He described it pefectly and its more than wide enough for bikes and pedestrians to safely get around eachother.

I've ridden that path as well as other rails-to-trails paths and no, there really is NOT enough room when you're dealing with closing speeds with pedestrians exceeding 20 mph. Many of the bike paths around the Philly area have 7 mph speed limits for bikes. Even when riding my mtn bikes, I have trouble going that slow. On my road bike, under optimal conditions, I can easily cruise at 22 mph without working very hard to do it. Get a few guys together and 25 mph plus is their "cool-down" speed. Again, if you really know what it's like to ride at training speeds, then you know that multi-use non-motorized paths are not a viable option.

25mph bike closing on a 3mph walker is the same closing speed as a 47mph car closing in on a 25mph biker. The difference is if you are on the street, you get to be the annoyer, not the annoyed.

You know, motomoron makes a good point. Even if am unhappy about what a biker is doing, I keep it to myself. I never want to endanger someone else of course, but I also consider that I got winded walking out to my car, and that guy biked 80 miles to get in my way. If it comes to a fight, he will win on endurance alone!

In reply to DILYSI Dave:

That's a lot of truth there, Dave!

As noted earlier, I live in an area where cyclists congregate. Several popular routes pass in front of my subdivision where the road is five lanes wide (the center lane is turn-only).

Three miles short of the main destination/feature, the road shrinks to two lanes (with no bike lanes and no passing lanes) and the speed limit remains at 45MPH. This road provides one of two access points to major commuter thoroughfares. I've seen way too much frustation when 3-4 riders decide to fully occupy the lane when they are traveling at less than half the posted speed limit.

The good development is that once-common criterium parades have nearly disappeared in the last year or so. Even so, a small group of riders with an "attitude" will create a large back-up and even more resentment. Some people just don't "get it".

DILYSI Dave wrote: 25mph bike closing on a 3mph walker is the same closing speed as a 47mph car closing in on a 25mph biker. The difference is if you are on the street, you get to be the annoyer, not the annoyed.

Not really when you consider the percentage difference.

But it doesn't matter. Those who don't understand never will.

I still wish this thread would get deleted...

I understand you like to ride your bike. I just wish it was limited to places where you could actually do the speed limit. A biker has never held me up in my neighborhood.

Ian F wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: 25mph bike closing on a 3mph walker is the same closing speed as a 47mph car closing in on a 25mph biker. The difference is if you are on the street, you get to be the annoyer, not the annoyed.

Not really when you consider the percentage difference. But it doesn't matter. Those who don't understand never will. I still wish this thread would get deleted...

Mommy mommy make the bad thing go away!

I forgot to address the Spandex issue:

I can't think of an activity during which I've ever thought "You know? these clothes are just too well suited to what I'm doing here".

There isn't anything you can wear while riding a bicycle in anger than cycling clothes. In the case of road bicycles, the shorts are at least half of the seating system. Proper shoes w/ correctly positioned cleats and a clipless pedal system that works for you make a huge difference in efficiency. I'll ride to the coffee shop in cargo shorts, Vans and a Motorhead T-shirt - but if I'm going for a ride - it'll be 20 miles minimum - "flatout".

Would the Spandex detractors also say "He was one of those shiny happy people who rides a sportbike, but he's not Valentino Rossi or anything; why is he wearing leather?" or "he's only doing time trials, why wear Nomex?"

Maybe I'm the exception, but I've got good gear for every pastime I enjoy - and in every case it makes the pastime more enjoyable, safer or both.

There's a concept called "modal bias" which says that however we're traveling, we can't relate to people using other modes of transportation. Cyclists hate cars and pedestrians. Drivers hate cyclists and pedestrians. Tom Vanderbilt has written a fair bit about this.

When you're stuck in a traffic jam, are you working yourself into a blind range about all the other drivers using up your road? Of course not, because you're all driving cars and you collectively own the road. But how about when you're stuck behind a line of cyclists? They're a bunch of spandex clad fascists out to steal your freedom!

The funny thing is, how many hours have you wasted behind bikes vs. stuck in traffic? Why the hate for the cyclists when they've wasted a couple hours of your life compared to thousands of hours stuck behind other cars? Likewise, do you hate all cars and drivers just because a few of them don't follow the rules? If not, then why would you disparage all cyclists?

If you realized how threatening aggressive driving is to cyclists, you might understand some of the hostility. A car passing on a blind curve on a too-narrow road is a life threatening situation like drivers don't get to experience very often. Forget getting physically run over...being pushed off the road at 20-30mph can be just as deadly. Psychologically, a 2 ton car invading my space on the road is no different from someone coming at you with a baseball bat. Adrenaline makes you do crazy things. Self-righteousness adds another layer of stupidity.

Legally and morally, roads aren't there just for cars to drive on. Cyclists have just as much right to be on the road as cars do. That's what the law says virtually everywhere on earth. Roads aren't funded entirely by taxes on drivers. They existed for thousands of year without cars and, ironically, the initial push for paved roads in this country came from the League of American Wheelmen.

Finally, from a safety perspective, the road is the safest place to ride by a wide margin. Per vehicle mile fatalities are way lower for cyclists riding with traffic on the road than on mult-use paths or sidewalks. So, thanks, I think I'll stay on the street.

P.S. Funny clothing? Pot, kettle:

paanta wrote: Legally and morally, roads aren't there just for cars to drive on. Cyclists have just as much right to be on the road as cars do. That's what the law says virtually everywhere on earth. Roads aren't funded entirely by taxes on drivers. They existed for thousands of year without cars and, ironically, the initial push for paved roads in this country came from the League of American Wheelmen. P.S. Funny clothing? Pot, kettle:

Sounds like a good rationale to promote additional user-fees and taxes on bicycles, the revenue then used to fund bike lanes and dedicated bike-only paths.

You (and the like-minded) would stand or ride for that, right?

I hate cyclists when I am in my car. But when I'm on my bike, I really hate the people in cars. Life would be so much easier if everyone could constantly monitor and mimic my mode of transportation.

If I am running, I'd prefer cars and bikes stay off the roads.

Can't we all just get along

In reply to pilotbraden:

More crazy talk, I tell ya!

Otto_Maddox wrote: I hate cyclists when I am in my car. But when I'm on my bike, I really hate the people in cars. Life would be so much easier if everyone could constantly monitor and mimic my mode of transportation. If I am running, I'd prefer cars and bikes stay off the roads.

I laffed.