Any architects here?

My 13-year old daughter has always been artistic, and has mentioned graphic design as a possible career choice, but more and more I've been seeing her spend hours upon hours in Minecraft building complex and elaborate mansions/palaces. So I'm wondering if architecture my be something to expose her to?

Unfortunately, I do not personally know any architects(and living in BFE, we don't have too many nearby). Our school is also tiny, and doesn't have anything to offer either. So are there any good online resources that would help explain more about the career at a junior-high level? Or anything to give her an idea of what kind of high school curriculum she need if she wants an architecture degree in college?

It's hard for the creative types, but doable.

I've got a few friends that went through architecture, most are doing product design now, not buildings. The career path of architecture and design of buildings is very difficult and competitive, especially in the last 5 years. The architects I know that are now on teams that design buildings got their job after being at the top of their masters classes, slaving away for 6-8 years in Studio, and most importantly: making all the right connections. From my experience, a median starting salary in a building design firm for someone with a masters in Architecture is $35k-$45, and their jobs are intense. After 5 years, the expected pay is around $55k. It's not a cakewalk. Like my musician friends, my Arch friends will advise that you should only do it if you couldn't see yourself doing anything else.

Industrial Design is a much easier path, and so is Civil Engineering. You can walk out with a Bachelors in CE to a reasonable 9-5 job that pays $55k+. ID is a little more competitive.

Thanks Warren, I appreciate the insight into the career.

I have a friend who graduated from Purdue in Industrial Design…and is an insurance underwriter - never once worked in his intended trade. Mostly because it was such a tough field to break into. Partly because he didn't want to relocate either.

Industrial Designer here. I've worked in the business since graduation 25 years ago... The thing is "Industrial Design" covers a lot of ground. Classically it's mass produced consumer stuff...hair dryers, cars, washers and dryers. I design exhibits for trade shows and events. It's kinda the fun part of architecture. The bad part is it's sort of disposable architecture. As a guy that sees kids trying to start, showing visualization and problem solving is what gets paid. I'm old and I sketch/draw in meetings and at work. Using the computer for 3d photorealistic renderings is expected. I hire kids that can think and can present those ideas. Draw all day, know how stuff is built, have her change brakes, pull transmissions...build cabinets. It makes for a better Industrial Designer. Graphic Design is a great profession, but just so many folks that are good at it...competition.

Different schools have it as an AA certificate, some as art degree, some as an engineering degree.

As a side note, I get to design nifty things for a lot of car industry folks at this point in my career. So SEMA and PRI are part of my work.

I met a few friends my freshman year of college, mostly architecture students, most of them aren't architecture students anymore. Its a HARD CORE curriculum, and I'm an engineering major. The only building on campus open 24/7 was the architecture building and the lights were always on.

Hmm... Well I have no problem with her entering a competitive environment, if that's where her passion is. So it sounds like I should set her up with whatever software packages are used in graphic arts. So...what software is used for graphic arts??? Illustrater? In Design???

If she wants a good job in graphic design she better learn how to code sites.

Competitive environment is an understatement.

I know people who got straight A's (graduated with a 4.0) studied overseas for 2 semesters, had the 3 internships that are recommended and ended up bussing tables.

Architecture isn't what she thinks it is, or anyone else not in the field for that matter.

First thing she needs to do is talk to some professionals in the field to get a real idea of what it is.

The American Institute of Architects is a great place to start. Be straight up with them and say she would like to interview an Architect for some career advice and maybe go to a local meeting. This will give her a real world view of what goes on day to day.

Ask if she can do a summer intern as a high school student to see if it is something she wants to do.

Make sure she asks about time lines to being profitable, licensing and testing along with associated fees. Where would she have to live to have the best shot of being gainfully employed (not just a check but there are areas where certain skill sets pay much more than the COL adjustment.) What are the hours and work environment like. What should she do to avoid the previous example of great student and failed architect.

There is nothing that sucks more in her poring her entire life into what she thought she would love only to find out it doesn't exist anymore. People don't have homes designed anymore, and under a certain size/municipalities don't require and architect to sign off on. So if that is her dream, tell her to move on or become a drafter.

Good Luck, I wish her and you the best of luck.

EDIT: In retrospect this would be good advice for anyone wanting to go into any field.
1. Find professional organization and interview
2. Find current professional in field
3. Intern or mirror for X amount of time
4. Decide if that is the lifestyle they want
5. Repeat if necessary.

Minecraft rocks. I think google sketchup claims to be architect friendly and its free, so that might be something to look into. It's very different from the mine craft environment since it has no limitations and you don't have to build half of your stuff with cubic meter blocks. It might be overwhelming or very stimulating, I couldn't say, but its very easy to learn to use and it's free so no loss if she doesn't like it. It also tends to be easier on computer hardware than minecraft with the video settings cranked.

petegossett wrote: Hmm... Well I have no problem with her entering a competitive environment, if that's where her passion is. So it sounds like I should set her up with whatever software packages are used in graphic arts. So...what software is used for graphic arts??? Illustrater? In Design???

Yup, if she wants to be a graphic designer the Adobe Suite is the standard. As you said, Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign. Web stuff is related but with other programs...someone else can chime in on specific programs.

If she's leaning 3d/Architecture/Industrial Design that could mean Autodesk stuff: I use 3dstudio Max all day, sometimes AutoCAD, Maya. The best renderings I've seen come from folks that have a great artistic eye, and a bit computer geek.

"most" graphics folks I know work on Apples, "most" 3d folks work on PCs....but you can go either way.

I'm an architect. Some of what has been said above is true, some is not necessarily. I will be glad to give my thoughts later when I am at a computer, or you're welcome to PM me.

Architecture is very much a canary in a coal mine profession tied directly to the perceived strength of the economy.

OK, can't sleep and the computer is available so I'll give you some random sleep-deprived thoughts. The first step is to see if she's interested; ask her. Take her to a good bookstore - most have an Architecture section that you can browse. These will be filled with coffee table books about individual firms/architects, or building types, or styles. See if looking at pictures of cool buildings evokes a response. See what kinds of buildings she thinks are cool. When you're out and about, everywhere, point out interesting buildings and ask her to do the same. I mean buildings you guys think are interesting, not what you think you should think is capital-A Architecture.

Flight Service has it pretty well covered, though I would stress that the American Institute of Architects is only a place to start, not the ultimate authority. The AIA is only a professional organization and has nothing to do with licensing architects, though many people equate them with that.

There is a popular perception that it is a glamorous, lucrative field. It can be both but it is more often neither. Because of this, the field is fairly heavily overpopulated, even when times are good. When the economy is in the dumps it can be a wasteland, especially around big urban centers where there are a lot of architects. Architects are notoriously bad businesspeople and many firms balloon in size when they are busy and then dump excess staff when the bottom falls out. GOOD firms work a little too hard and stay understaffed when times are good, so they don't have to lay off when things are slow. I work in a small firm (2 partner architects, I am the senior employee and only other registered architect, plus 2 non-registered designers) with low overhead, and we have managed to stay afloat and busy. Some other firms in the area are sucking wind and going into debt.

If it is the field you enjoy, then you can make a decent living doing it, but there will be a significant investment in education. She'll need a minimum of 5 years of college in almost all programs, because in the US she will need either a Bachelor of Architecture or a Bachelor of Science in Architecture. In most cases those are 5-year degrees. A Masters is really only required if she wants to enter academia. I have a Masters, but that is because A) I thought I might want to teach, and B) the school I got my undergrad degree only offered a non-professional liberal arts degree in Architecture. I had to go elsewhere for the graduate degree in order to qualify for licensure. Getting your license will require a professional degree from an accredited school - if it goes that far, do some real research and make sure the program she is entering is NCARB certified as a professional degree.

Once she gets out of school, she will need to do a minimum 3-year internship working in a firm with a registered architect. She'll get paid an entry-level salary and will be working as a drafter, with increasingly more complex responsibilities as her experience grows. I don't know the current salary figures, and they vary by area, but FS's numbers sound about right above. She'll most likely need to enroll in a program that documents her experience, and sets minimum standards for exposure to a large variety of tasks. Once this internship is complete, she will submit the documentation to her state's professional registration board and will receive approval to begin sitting for her licensure exams. This is a series of 8 or 10 tests that measure her competence in a variety of tasks, including related fields like site design, structures, and mechanical/electrical systems. In my day these are only offered once per year for a solid week, but nowadays you can take them on a rolling basis throughout the year. Once all are passed, she will receive her license to practice architecture professionally in her state. If she completes the NCARB internship program (which is, I believe, required almost everywhere) it is not overly complex to get licensed in most other states without having to test again.

Some people never get licensed, for a variety of reasons. They can still have viable careers in the field, and even get to design buildings (or parts of buildings). However, that means they will never be legally allowed to call themselves an Architect. It also means that they will always have to work in someone else's firm, because someone on staff will have to have a license in order to generate usable construction drawings for permits. This situation varies and in rural communities it may not be as cut and dried as that, but in general, that's the way it is.

That kind of covers the nuts and bolts. I will post more about what the schooling and job really entails.

Here's her latest. She spent 10-12 hours working on it.

I knew I wanted to be an architect when I was in 7th grade. I am one of the lucky few who still liked the job once I found out what an architect actually does, and everything it entails.

There are two main types of architecture programs - design-oriented and technically-oriented. Most colleges and universities will offer design programs, which will be filled with history of architecture, design studio classes, and art classes in addition to the usual distribution requirements, most likely including calculus and physics. Primarily the goal is to teach students how to develop a conceptual design process - they often get ridiculously theoretical and intellectualized, BUT, that's the hardest part to get a handle on, so they try to pound it into you while they can. It's mostly art, just working in 3-dimensional drawings and models that represent real buildings. This is the part that is very competitive in school. You are given a design task, starting with simple artistic compositions and working up over the semesters into designing schematic building plans, cross sections, and elevations to meet an assigned list of program spaces. Design project assignments may last anywhere from a few days to a month or more. You work on the design in class and after hours, usually in studios in the architecture building. You'll usually have a workspace to call your own and because of this, you'll be there A LOT. Like, 12 scheduled class hours a week for your main design class (in addition to all your other 4 or 5 classes). Then you'll be working a couple hours a night on the design projects, too, on a light night. As the deadline approaches, you'll be putting in more and more time - I've gone as long as 48 hours without any sleep and been drawing pretty much the entire time. To this day, 30 years later, I can still sit down and take a 20-minute nap (no more, no less) under almost any conditions. The issue is this: because it is a design class, not a regular research project or set of problems, it is literally NEVER done. There is always something that could be a little better resolved, a little better proportioned, a little more interesting. The trick is to figure out when it's good enough, which usually means you should have quit sketching and changing stuff and started final drafting about a day earlier than you did.

Then, instead of handing the project in and waiting for a grade, you have to present it. In public. On zero sleep. In front of your professor, your peers, and a panel of your professor's architect buddies. You have to take this thing you have been lovingly crafting for the last month or so, explain it and show it to everyone, and then wait while they criticize the hell out of it, discuss all your mistakes, and point out the obvious things you should have done better if only you'd thought of it.

Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, it's competitive. And, frankly, that's at least part of the point. The point is to wash out the untalented and uncommitted early on in the process so they can find a better way to spend their college education. Because the field simply can't support all the people who think it might be cool to be an architect, design schools have to be selective in who they graduate. Don't get me wrong, if you have moderate talent and perseverance, very few programs will actually DENY you… but they don't make it easy to get through. And they shouldn't, really. You need to learn how to design good stuff. There are a lot of crappy architects out there, and buildings cost a lot and last a long time.

Design schools will also have some technical classes that concentrate on building technology, construction, and basic structural engineering. The technical side is often minimal, however, which kind of leaves these students underprepared for work in the actual job market. That's where the heavy job market competition comes in - since a newly-minted graduate isn't much good for the technical side of the firm's output (which is, honestly, the bulk of the work), then students must be well-versed and talented in graphic design and conceptual design. That's what gets your foot in the door and makes a firm hire you, so they can train you in the technical side of construction detailing and putting together contract documents that are used to permit, bid, and build the project. So you need to show enough spark of talent and ability that they are willing to invest in you.

The other side of the coin is Architectural Technology programs. These reverse the proportions of a typical design program - you'll get some basic design classes, but the concentration will be on drafting (as opposed to drawing), physical construction techniques, light structural engineering, and HVAC/plumbing/electrical systems. There will also be courses on construction management, estimating, etc. These programs are much less time-consuming and competitive - not that the material is necessarily easier, but it is much less subjectively graded and therefore much more like a traditional academic program. In addition, graduates come out of school with a marketable skill. They are more likely to find an entry-level job in the industry, either at an architecture firm or a construction firm. It's not a bad career - I don't see this kind of program as second rate in any way - but its more like engineering than art. That suits some people better than the design programs do.

The vast majority of the architecture job is technical. Think of a building like a car. You can build beautiful, dynamic designs that are difficult to get comfortable in and leak a lot. Or you can build appliances that are decent looking, serve their function well, and are reliable and cost-effective. Just like the difference between a Ferrari and a Ford, they make a lot more of the latter kind than the former. Buildings are expensive and therefore in most cases, utility wins out over drama. The trick is to make buildings that are attractive AND efficient AND reliable, and that is the satisfaction that makes up for the mediocre pay and frequent long hours. There are very few rockstar architects, though there are a few. The good architects are the ones who make interesting buildings that aren't eyesores within a few years of completion (or immediately, for that matter).

Doing that requires a lot of knowledge in a lot of different disciplines, coupled with some artistic talent and skill in solving problems. It's a combination that has kept me interested - and employed - for 30 years or more. It's very rewarding to see your drawings take shape in the real world, and even moreso when you hear people say they like it.

As far as high school prep work goes, I wouldn't stress drafting and CAD too much. They won't hurt. But they are not the major requirements, either. Any program is going to teach her those tools in introductory classes she may have to take, even if she had them in high school.

Architects, above everything else, need to be able to COMMUNICATE. Verbally, when talking with clients or the public, and in writing. Architects need to be able to sell themselves, their services, and their designs. I would recommend she take as many public speaking and writing composition courses as she can - that will shine through in her applications and interviews. I would also recommend she take whatever visual arts courses she can, so she gets comfortable thinking from a design perspective, and develops some confidence in sketching, painting, and drawing. Those will all form a solid background to bring to architecture school.

Thanks Duke!

It definitely sounds like she should focus on something more like Industrial Design, Graphic Design(including programming), or maybe even Interior Design?

Not necessarily! If she is interested and intrigued, she should go for it. But she should do so with her eyes open to the strengths and weaknesses of the career, that's all.

As a Mechanical Engineer working with Architects for 7 years now:

1. They are usually an artist with a job.

2. They all want to design the next World Trade Center or the next Falling Waters, but will be instead detailing stairs in the back of a paper machine building or manipulating the standard roof curb detail to fit a specific roof type.

We use Autodesk's Revit. I'm not sure of the licensing, but I think you can buy outdated versions from firms that have updated to the latest and greatest.

Wow, very insightful thread.
All I know about Architecture I learned from Mr. Mike Brady.
I seem to remember that Peter once lost some plans/drawings and Tiger once knocked over a design/model. That's all I've got.

The only thing I know about it is from a reasonably succesful architect that had just retired: It is better as a hobby than a career.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: I met a few friends my freshman year of college, mostly architecture students, most of them aren't architecture students anymore. Its a HARD CORE curriculum, and I'm an engineering major. The only building on campus open 24/7 was the architecture building and the lights were always on.

I'm an engineer, and when I was in school my dorm roommate was in architecture. Over the course of the school year he stayed at the studio later and later at night, until the point where he became completely nocturnal. He'd come staggering in when I was leaving in the morning, sleep all day, and go back about the time I was getting back from class.

I'm not an architect, but I've made a pretty good career out of doing the visualizations for architects. http://chrisv-design.com

The problem with the competition in most of these fields, including graphic designer, is that anyone can buy the software and then start doing it. Which means you compete not only with the professionals charging big money for their work, but with every part timer and kid starting out who'll do it for nearly free. Which makes it hard to make an actual living at it. I decided to go intol teh visualization field because the software is just expensive enough, and the learning curve just steep enough, that fewer people are willing to venture into it, and none of them give away their time. So, even though it's still competetive, it's a good kind of competetive, (i.e. you're not competing with people that are willing to give their time away because they can)

I was an architecture student for four semesters. By the end of my fourth semester, the class was down to about 25% of its original size.

To say that the program was competitive would be the understatement of the century. Pre-med students seem lazy by comparison. I saw more students in architecture with substance abuse problems (adderal, chain smokers, coke, and other stimulants) that in any other program.

In my program, any amount of students could be in the lower-division part of the program. However, only about half were accepted into upper-division. I ended up not making it into the upper division program because of my B-average GPA. I was one of two students that worked at all in my program; 32 hours a week is a lot of time not spent in studio.

Pete, have you thought about steering her towards engineering? Visual-Spacial abilities, planning a design, and the process required to get the right look from the limited block palette in Minecraft indicates an analytic mindset. Many engineers get to design and create objects of their passion (cough cough, I love what I do), as the market is very diverse and MechEs can be applied just about anywhere.

Buy her Kerbal Space Program, and see how she likes it. I'm grooming my little brother to be an engineer, and that game taught him rocket science. Literally. His vocabulary has expanded with "ISP, Apogee, Perigee, Hohmann transfer orbit, specific thrust", etc. The "game" is just like Minecraft, but in space!

It's on sale on Steam for $18 right now, normally $25ish. http://store.steampowered.com/app/220200/

In reply to Warren v:

Wow, that seems like a cheap investment to see if it piques her interest. Thanks! :D