Anyone use these (downhill skiing content)

Does  anyone Know anything about these. The TL;DR version these let you use soft boots for downhill skiing. 

Long version. I love to ski but am in agony most of the time because I have a difficult time finding boots that fit me properly. The pain is bad enough that I ski with my boots completely unbuckled just the Velcro strap holding them closed. 

I tried custom fitted boot liners, and while they are more comfortable; I still get some pain, the liners only last a few seasons, and they are really expensive. 

I can find reviews but only positive ones, I like to read the negative reviews to see what the drawbacks are.

(I know nothing of skiing, but want to start--these questions are for my own edification)

Where is the pain exactly? What hurts? What do these boots offer that a "normal" boot does not?

I can see those giving your ankle to much slack for a black diamond slope,no experience with them tho.

I used to work at a ski store and my own boots are custom-fit by yours truly. Even then, if I start off with my feet tense (I tend to curl my toes on ice, as if I'm trying to dig in) it'll be a painful day as that seems to get my feet swollen to start off and it just goes downhill from there (rimshot). Snowboard boots are soft-shelled, so they have a little give that makes them a lot more comfortable.

This is an interesting and fairly obvious idea when you think about it. I can see it working as long as there's enough rigidity in a twisting direction for directional control of the skis. It seems to me that would be a difference between snowboards and skiing - you want that twist on a board but not on skis. 

Color me interested. This would get my wife back on skis again, I suspect.

I'm sure they work but won't give nearly the control that regular ski boots do. 

You need to find a good boot fitter, then you'll end up with a set of boots that don't hurt.  Don't go to any large store, go to a place that specifically fits ski boots and that's all they do...

In reply to mtn :

Hard plastic ski boots are basically the modern evolution of some sort of medieval torture device. They tend to create various pressure points on all the bony protrusions on the foot, ankle, and elsewhere. They're pretty miserable contraptions.

OP, I have no direct experience with that product, but I agree with the above assessment that it looks like it would allow too much relative motion between foot/ankle-boot-binding to be useful in any kind of aggressive skiing. 

I had an eye on these as well Apex ski boots they are a similar idea just substantially higher cost. 

I have tried custom fit from the most reputable shop in my area and while better than off the shelf, I still have pain. The main difference for me between custom fit and off the shelf; off the shelf boots I leave unbuckled all day. Custom fit the buckles are all undone by the end of the day. 

I agree about possible ridgidity issues with both the Envy and Apex shells,  but since I ski with my buckles undone these shells might be a improvement.

Huh... I wonder if it would be possible to modify a hockey skate for this. I spend hours in my skates a day and never really have an issue.

In reply to mtn :

I get pain in my arches and calfs. I have heard others get pain in their toes. Also ski boots tend to not be well insulated so your toes can get cold. Wool or good thermal socks are important. Wool although not the most comfortable is my favorite because it keeps in heat even when wet. 

Merino wools socks FTW.

Now calve pain, how much cant is in your boots? My wife had BAD calf and quad pain. Boot that fit well and fit her ski style (IIRC MORE cant) helped immensely. IE shes happy to ski with my dumb ass all day. And I wonder if the arch pain could be related to stressed calves. Have you tried a insole with a bit more support in them?

I've skied for almost 40 years. Only time I had cold feet was a race at Stowe in college when it was -70 with the wind chill.  Quite possible that my feet just lend themselves to fitting into ski boots better than yours but you need to find a true, blue proper ski boot fitter.

The fact that you're still having pain and undoing your buckles by the end of the day tells me that you haven't found the right shop yet.  There are several here in the Denver/Mtn area that are good, if you ever find yourself out here...

drsmooth said:

In reply to mtn :

I get pain in my arches and calfs. I have heard others get pain in their toes. Also ski boots tend to not be well insulated so your toes can get cold. Wool or good thermal socks are important. Wool although not the most comfortable is my favorite because it keeps in heat even when wet. 

You need to stretch your calf muscles more.  You will find that if you have something in the boot to support your arch well, your problems will largely disappear.

drsmooth, between the cold feet and the unbuckled boots, I think your boots are too small.

I found that wearing lightweight "dress" socks my feet stayed warmer. Less thermal transfer? Also my ski boots were a little big, I could wiggle my toes and stretch my arch a bit.

In reply to docwyte :

Any recommendations? I'm in the market now that I'm right here again. I'll be getting something here in the next 2-3 months probably. 

You in the Denver area?  If so, I'll send you the info of my friend, he's in Vail and has taken care of me on my last two sets of boots with great results.

Got Daleboots, made in Salt Lake City.  They do custom fitting there, found them to be the most comfortable boots ever, and for 20 years have loved them.  Every few years I send them back and get a new neoprene liner.  I am sure there are other boots out there that are just as good, but the key is to have them fitted by a trained person.  we had ours fitted by the guy that designed the boot.

My body still aches when I think back on my one experience with skiing, back when I was woo-ing my wife-to-be.  That was 18 years ago.  She did not marry me based on my skiing ability.  Skiing hurts!  Goes to show the foolish things a man will do at a woman's urging.

In reply to docwyte :

Yeah, I should be in Vail here in 3 weeks. Just shoot me a PM and I'd appreciate it. 

I thank everyone in the thread who offered up advice as to why my boots might not be working for me. At this point after 34 years of pain spread over 9 sets of boots (custom liner, and off the shelf). I decided to bite and order a pair of the Envy frames. For the price, I figure the gamble is worth it. It will likely be December or January before I can try them out but I will post what I think here if anyone is interested in what they are like compared to traditional boots.

Please do follow up. As predicted, my wife finds these interesting.

Problem I foresee with using a snowboard type rig to secure ski to the foot would be excessive motion in the coronal plane.  You turn the ski on the inside edge of your downhill ski.  Your lower leg internally rotates, your foot pronates and you are on that edge.  On a snowboard, you are shifting your weight from the balls of the feet to the heels to make the board turn, which would be impacted much less by the excessive coronal plane motion.  I would expect it to take a lot more work to ski using boots that are not as stiff or rigidly attached to the ski.  You will probably find that adding supports, such as Superfeet, to the boot, you will have less problems.

In reply to Toebra :

When you say add supports to the boot, am i correct in assuming you mean adding them to snowboard boots?

Also, having done some picking around the web I found the flex index of the frames is 100 which is usually ok for Intermediate/Advanced skiers. As a complete rookie to snowboard boots I did a 20 second search and found that Free Ride boots typically have better lateral support than Freestyle boots so Free Ride boots may work well with the frames. 

I plan to start by renting some snowboard boots to get started; Then look for a demo day near me so I can try out some different snowboard boots see what works for me. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Will Do!!

I am talking about putting something in the boot to support the arch.  I have fabricated this sort of thing for skiers in the past with good success, or you would likely do well with something off the shelf