Stabbin' an punchin'. That's what Baltimore likes.
Stabbin' an punchin'. That's what Baltimore likes.
Anybody can make a mistake, granted and take it from me sometimes there is extreme provocation (never did swing but was pushed REAL hard, seems somebody's lawyer suggested it). That got way off the reservation, though. Maybe it doesn't make him an abuser for life but he also can't get off scot free.
Speaking of that, does anybody recall if Tiger Wood's ex ever got in any crap for attacking him? Would only seem fair...
While I agree what he did was horrible and would never condone that in any way shape or manner, I have a huge issue with how the NFL handled this. First, just because the video surfaced, nothing at all is different than before. They already knew he knocked her out in the elevator and carried her out. How did they think he did that, with pink unicorns and gummy bears to cushion the fall? The only thing different at all is the public and news reaction due to the video. To me it is pandering to the public.
First, there we no rules in the NFL to handle this issue, they made them this summer. Keep in mind this happened two years ago. Since then the woman married him and I believe he had to go to counseling but I could be wrong here.
In any event, I think he has a huge potential case against the NFL and his former team, and I would expect to see this drag on for a long time to come.
Basically, while what he did was very wrong and he should be punished, it should have been handled through the criminal justice system, which it was. If he violated no policies where he "worked", that should be the end of it from a public stand point. Now the wife may have a different option for his home life, but that's a private matter.
To me, this is nothing more than a public lynching. You've taken away his ability to earn a living for something that happened in the past that he's already paid a price for. How much punishment do you want? Is he a repeat offender? Do any of us really know? If he is, they it should once again be handled through the justice system with his wife pressing charges.
When did we turn into a country of public lynchings. Its all we have on TV lately and personally I'm a bit tired of it.
Personally, I could care less about the NFL and its players, but this could have far reaching consequences far beyond football. To me, that is important. And what about the message to other wives and girlfriends of NFL players, do they now want to run the risk of losing their "meal ticket" and not turning people in for beating them. There's so much going on here and the reaction is so wrong and shortsighted.
Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to wbjones: I know he's not being tried for a crime, that's why I said "He's not being tried for a crime" I said he got a punishment from the NFL based on the evidence at the time. When new evidence came up he got a harsher punishment based on that new evidence. From what I see you are repeating the exact same thing back to me.
you're right ..my bad … I'm not sure whose post I meant to quote … yes, you and I were/are saying pretty much the same thing …
probably what happened to me, was I read some of the other posts/listened to some of the BS from the talking heads on TV, then read yours and saw the the words double jeopardy, and started typing 
sorry 'bout that 
racerdave600 wrote: While I agree what he did was horrible and would never condone that in any way shape or manner, I have a huge issue with how the NFL handled this. First, just because the video surfaced, nothing at all is different than before. They already knew he knocked her out in the elevator and carried her out. How did they think he did that, with pink unicorns and gummy bears to cushion the fall? The only thing different at all is the public and news reaction due to the video. To me it is pandering to the public. First, there we no rules in the NFL to handle this issue, they made them this summer. Keep in mind this happened two years ago. Since then the woman married him and I believe he had to go to counseling but I could be wrong here. In any event, I think he has a huge potential case against the NFL and his former team, and I would expect to see this drag on for a long time to come. Basically, while what he did was very wrong and he should be punished, it should have been handled through the criminal justice system, which it was. If he violated no policies where he "worked", that should be the end of it from a public stand point. Now the wife may have a different option for his home life, but that's a private matter. To me, this is nothing more than a public lynching. You've taken away his ability to earn a living for something that happened in the past that he's already paid a price for. How much punishment do you want? Is he a repeat offender? Do any of us really know? If he is, they it should once again be handled through the justice system with his wife pressing charges. When did we turn into a country of public lynchings. Its all we have on TV lately and personally I'm a bit tired of it. Personally, I could care less about the NFL and its players, but this could have far reaching consequences far beyond football. To me, that is important. And what about the message to other wives and girlfriends of NFL players, do they now want to run the risk of losing their "meal ticket" and not turning people in for beating them. There's so much going on here and the reaction is so wrong and shortsighted.
^ This, IMO the NFL's reaction went from "not harsh enough" to flat out "kill it with fire". In their quest to punish the offender and garner favorable public opinion, they have actually managed to punish the victim as well. I understand that athletes contracts have morals clauses that give the teams the power to cut players and void contracts if there are violations, but this new punishment is pretty arbitrary at this point. You punished the guy, get critized for not punishing him severely enough, so you use evidence that doesn't change or alter the outcome of what the guy did (you think he knocked her out with his breath?) to punish him some more? I don't condone what Ray Rice did, but it seems the actions of the league are just as wrong-headed as the actions of this player.
In reply to racerdave600:
There's a BIG differene between a lyncing and losing your job. Massive difference.
Heck, there's a difference between going to jail and a lynching.
I'm tired of people think this is some kind of lynching- nobody is swinging from trees.
He lost his job, that's it. He's not getting anymore criminal consequences, he's not going to jail. He's just losing his job.
The fact that his job is a multi-million/year job entertaining people does not change that at all. It's a job, he got fired. Simple as that.
I would not be surprised that many jobs have rules that if you get charged with domestic assault, there are consequences. More for some jobs than others, but there are consequences.
Datsun1500 wrote: It happened in Feb. 2014. not 2 years ago. Like I posted earlier, I am sure there is a clause that says you can let them go if the damage the reputation of the franchise. There does not have to be a direct rule pertaining to domestic violence.
this ^^^
the Ravens are using the clauses built into all the contracts that allow them to break those contracts if things happen that cause the franchise embarrassment/loss of prestige/loss of income … etc …
now about the NFL caving into public outcry … shrug … they have to protect their brand also … and I'm SURE they have teams of lawyers advising them on what they can and cannot do … as long as the players association goes along with the decisions that come from the league office, ol wife beater Ray doesn't have much of a case
nothing anywhere guarantees him the right to play football for a living … he can go out in the public and hunt for work (using his hard earned college degree) just like the rest of us .. if his a$$hat thuggery causes him problems there …well.. wonder what he expected
One other thing about the job.
It's a job to play a game. He lost that job.
That's all. Nothing more.
I'm just saying, if they were going to fire the guy, then they should have just fired him once they found out it happened. There are no "degrees" of knocking your wife out. They knew he knocked her out no matter what video they saw, he didn't just knock her out a little bit, there's no such thing. They could have handled this in a much more productive fashion, make him donate some of his game checks to organizations that help prevent domestic violence. Have him do PSA's condemning domestic violence, almost anything but what they did. The message the team and the league sends with how they handled this is, "we don't really care if our players beat their spouses, unless it messes with our bottom line." Cutting the guy and banning him from the league 7 months after the fact is just indicative of really poor management, both at the league and team level. But.. that seems to be par for the course in professional sports (Clippers/Sterling.. Cincinatti/Marge Schott.. The guy who owns the Atlanta Hawks)
In reply to 06HHR:
very true. And it does fairly bring into question the NFL and Ravens managment.
If this is an fireable offense, he should have been fired a few months ago.
As for the idea of a PSA- is that an option for you, if you got into trouble with work? I don't think I can keep my job by doing one. Why does that become a realistic option for an entertainer to keep their job? I know for some criminal things, public work is an option, but that's more an option to stay out of jail, as opposed to keeping my job.
Alfa, the reason many people are comparing it to a lynching is that there is a public with "flaming pitchforks" demanding a head, and the owners gave in and handed the guy and his career to them on a golden platter. If they had handed the termination to him at the outset, none of this would be an issue. It is simply giving in to the media and public outrage. This is where I have the issues. We're simply fueling this type of society with the constant pandering.
This is where I believe he has a real case against the NFL and his own/former team. As was said earlier, there is no degree of "knocking" someone out. They already knew this, there is nothing new to see here other than the actual video released on the news channels. Who cares if we actually saw it or not.
There are tons of people out there that have hit their spouses, terrible as that is, and many now have went on to lead better lives. Do we simply go and fire all of them because the news doesn't believe they paid a big enough price, whatever that was? This is where we are really.
In reply to Alfadriver: Only brought that into play because of the celebrity factor. If this was the average joe, the only way it would have come out is if some schmoe posted it to you tube or wherever. Sadly this is only news because the guy is paid millions of dollars to play football. It's a realistic option for entertainers simply because of the $$$ involved. It's amazing how many options a person has when large sums of cash are on the table. 
In reply to racerdave600:
Just because some people like to use the word lynching does not mean that it actually is, or that it's even remotly close to the correct word. 100 year ago, lynching meant that someone was hanging, dead, from a tree. Dead. Not fired, dead.
Not remotely the same.
The public is asking that he gets fired, and some are asking that some management resign. Nobody is asking that they be hanged from a tree. Nor get stuck with a fork. So lets not pretend this is anywhere near that.
That side of society really bugs me.
As for him getting fired- I ask you to look at your contract, and understand what you can be fired for.
I'll give you a hit, if you see the NSFW- there's a reason that acronym is around. You can be fired for what you view on your computer, and it can be 100% legal in the criminal eyes.
Can I be fired for domestic abuse? I could.. need to look it up.
I can be fired for legaly drinking alcohol and coming to work.
Ray Rice is very capable of going out and getting a different job. Nobody is preventing that. Heck, in the few years he's played football, he's earned way, way more than the average American earns in a lifetime- so he should have more than enough to live out his very gifted life.
In terms of the NFL/Ravens, if doemstic battery is a fireable offense, the either their investigators are incopotent for not finding this video or they were trying to hide it. Or they are making rules up. None of that is a good answer for them.
As for them changing the rules- if I bring bad PR onto my company, even if the PR goes from bad to really bad, I'm sure I can be fired for it getting to real bad. So the fact that he lost his job for this isn't that big of a deal.
life isn't fair.
06HHR wrote: In reply to Alfadriver: Only brought that into play because of the celebrity factor. If this was the average joe, the only way it would have come out is if some schmoe posted it to you tube or wherever. Sadly this is only news because the guy is paid millions of dollars to play football. It's a realistic option for entertainers simply because of the $$$ involved. It's amazing how many options a person has when large sums of cash are on the table.
Which is to suggest that there are easier ways out of problems for the highly paid entertainers.
That doesn't seem very good.
Since we as real humans can't do that, it does not seem right that people who play a game for entertainment should be able to do that.
In reply to Datsun1500: This is what bothers me, the NFL doesn't exist in an vacuum. They had access to the police report and knew of the charges filed against Ray Rice. They knew the outcome of the legal proceedings before they decided upon his initial punishment (2 game suspension). They only thing they didn't have (and that is now in question) is the tape showing Ray Rice in the act of knocking his now-wife out. So, even if the evidence is new, it has no bearing on the outcome. They knew he knocked her out, and he publicly was charged with assault. Why that didn't make a difference then and makes a difference now is disturbing.
In reply to alfadriver: Life isn't fair..
If you don't like the lynch description, insert whatever word you want, you're quibbling over details. In this case, and in many others, "lynch" has morphed into a slang usage. The meaning is still the same regardless of your wording preferences. I've been through my reasoning twice, I won't rehash it again, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. 
For Datsun1500, he already admitted he knocked her out, that was not in question. The video did nothing in this regard.
The problem is that the slang lessens the meaning of the original offense. Lynching is really, really bad- when people go out to find someone and literally string them up to let them die.
By using it as slang, you now pretend that either this offense is now that bad (it isn't) or the previous events were not that bad.
That's crap.
Unless you think having a WWI Congressional Medal of Honor winner who was strung up on a tree is anywhere near what people want to happen to the NFL management, or Ray Rice.
A lot of slang has been come up with to describe races, too.
Worried that people want some really, really rich people who govern or play a game to lose their jobs? cry me a river.
I think what bothers me about the whole thing is that there really haven't been any proactive rational actions taken by either the team or NFL management. It's like they waited as long as possible to make a decision, and found an excuse to change their minds when they got backlash from the fans. I get the impression that they really didn't want to do anything at all, and only did something because they felt they had to in order to protect the "image" of the league. Not worried because, as stated, these are really rich people we are talking about, the interest off Rice's earnings could pay some of the members of this forum's annual salaries many times over. Just seems like an opportunity to really address what appears to be an escalating trend of violence, domestic or otherwise, in our society was wasted.
Again, I could care less about the NFL or Ray Rice, I do care about the precedence this sets. You can go on and on about my choice of words, and frankly I don't care, but that changes nothing. This is still a very serious issue with his firing long after the fact and for no further evidence other than public opinion. As a nation, we are now a bunch of thin skinned sheeple.
I wonder how many years before he wins a championship in Europe/Canada?
06HHR wrote: I'm just saying, if they were going to fire the guy, then they should have just fired him once they found out it happened. There are no "degrees" of knocking your wife out. They knew he knocked her out no matter what video they saw, he didn't just knock her out a little bit, there's no such thing. They could have handled this in a much more productive fashion, make him donate some of his game checks to organizations that help prevent domestic violence. Have him do PSA's condemning domestic violence, almost anything but what they did. The message the team and the league sends with how they handled this is, "we don't really care if our players beat their spouses, unless it messes with our bottom line." Cutting the guy and banning him from the league 7 months after the fact is just indicative of really poor management, both at the league and team level. But.. that seems to be par for the course in professional sports (Clippers/Sterling.. Cincinatti/Marge Schott.. The guy who owns the Atlanta Hawks)
totally agree … but like so many over the recent past, they thought they could "get away" with a slap on the wrist …. this man has some serious talent on the football field …
which is why so many in Baltimore are still siding with Rice … they want to win … regardless of the cost … as long as it doesn't ACTUALLY cost them … the league and the team wanted him to be able to play …
06HHR wrote: The guy who owns the Atlanta Hawks)
from everything I've been able to find out about him … he just wants to sell his part of the team
the rest of the ownership won't let him … if this e-mail can be defined as racist, then the precedent has been set to "require" him to sell …
not to mention his wife, the real tragedy here is her buying power has been seriously assaulted.
In reply to wbjones:
I haven't seen the e-mail, but I actually don't blame the guy for trying, precedent has been set and he stands to make a sizeable profit if he's "required" to sell.
this ^^ .. like I said, what I've been able to find is that the e-mail really isn't all the bigoted/racists .. but that he has wanted to sell for a while … this gets it done for him
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