This is not a canoe.
One of the current house projects is making my basement more usable. That includes hopefully eliminating the water in one of the basement rooms. This room is 6" lower than the rest of the original basement, it was an addition that was done sometime after the house was built (1927). It has always been wet when it rains, much more so when it rains a lot and the ground is saturated (all of this year). It is coming in at the joint for the wall and floor. Mostly in the corner shown in the second picture where the concrete is crumbling.
With the way the floor is sloped most of the water does not make it into the drains along the edge of the room that feed the sump pump. I have to sweep the standing water into the drains and run the dehumidifier.
This is the outside and the main problem. There is a large concrete patio that has cracks in it. The downspout draining directly onto it does not help, I am going to route that along the wall out to the yard.
There is also a cistern on the patio. It does hold water but the pump does not work. A couple days ago I sucked all the water out (~15 gallons) and checked it. I tried to drill through the bottom and ran a 6" masonry bit into it without feeling like it every broke through. The next day (no rain) it had about 4-5" of water in the bottom again. I have not checked it today after a lot of rain. I'm sure this is not helping. The water level is always above the hold in the side where the pipes go into the pump in the basement. I imagine the water is leaking through there next to the foundation and into the basement.
There are drains for the patio along the garage. That is where the majority of the water collects and drains slowly. I don't know exactly where they go but now I am afraid they lead to the cistern.
So after all of that, what kind of options do I have to keep the basement dry? I am planning on re-routing the downspout so it does not drain on the patio. I can run water through the patio drains to try to see where they lead. Is there anything else I can try? Anything else to test out to see where the water is coming from?
I know the ultimate answer is to tear up the patio, install drains along the foundation and grade the yard so all the water isn't coming to the house. I am not opposed to that but would like to know if there is anything easier that I can test to see if there is a difference.
Your best bet with basements is always get the water away from the outside first, the outside patio probably really need to go and drains nee put in.
It kind of looks like its holding water up against the house, You could do a a diamond blade sawcut away from the area holding water to help it drain. It may not be the prettiest idea but you say the patio is cracked anyway.
The fact that the cistern is filling up though means the ground water is very close to the surface, its kind of a losing battle without putting in french drains and some grading
Reroute the downspout and seal the cracks in the patio with a good urethane sealant.
Then see what happens.
I wouldn’t seal the inside until you’re pretty sure water is not getting through that patio.
In reply to SVreX :
There is definitely too much coming through for sealing the inside to do anything (at least from my understanding). When the ground is very saturated and it has been raining hard the water is visibly flowing into the basement.
Antihero said:Your best bet with basements is always get the water away from the outside first, the outside patio probably really need to go and drains nee put in.
It kind of looks like its holding water up against the house, You could do a a diamond blade sawcut away from the area holding water to help it drain. It may not be the prettiest idea but you say the patio is cracked anyway.
The fact that the cistern is filling up though means the ground water is very close to the surface, its kind of a losing battle without putting in french drains and some grading
Not necessarily.
That cistern could be filling with anything- roof runoff, etc. It could be piped from the downspouts and have nothing to do with the ground water level.
I wonder how much of the problem is that the whole backyard is a dense fog away from becoming a lake at any given time, so the basement has to be a kind of reverse swimming pool.
One of my friends' neighbors rented a backhoe and spent six hours a night for a couple weeks completely digging up the ground around his house and applying something to the outside of his foundation to water seal it. Call that the nuclear option.
Also: Clear those drains so they don’t drain slowly. They are backing up and adding to the problem.
SVreX said:Antihero said:Your best bet with basements is always get the water away from the outside first, the outside patio probably really need to go and drains nee put in.
It kind of looks like its holding water up against the house, You could do a a diamond blade sawcut away from the area holding water to help it drain. It may not be the prettiest idea but you say the patio is cracked anyway.
The fact that the cistern is filling up though means the ground water is very close to the surface, its kind of a losing battle without putting in french drains and some grading
Not necessarily.
That cistern could be filling with anything- roof runoff, etc. It could be piped from the downspouts and have nothing to do with the ground water level.
I have inspected all of the downspouts and none of them are running to the cistern. Most of them did in the past but they have been redone.
Actually, I take that back. There is one that is going into the ground and could be running there. I will check that out.
I did clear the drains once when I moved in a couple years ago, I will do it again and see where they are running.
Knurled. said:I wonder how much of the problem is that the whole backyard is a dense fog away from becoming a lake at any given time, so the basement has to be a kind of reverse swimming pool.
One of my friends' neighbors rented a backhoe and spent six hours a night for a couple weeks completely digging up the ground around his house and applying something to the outside of his foundation to water seal it. Call that the nuclear option.
My parents did that on one side of their house, well, they had it done.
The good news is that there is only 4 feet or so from the ground to the base of the foundation so less to dig through. Although if it was going to take a few weeks I would buy a backhoe and sell it when done.
You say you have rerun the downspouts. I hope you used solid drain pipe and not the flexible black pipe. The flexible pipe the po installed caused my basement issues.
That Miata door is going to rust quickly sitting on the wet concrete.
SVreX said:Antihero said:Your best bet with basements is always get the water away from the outside first, the outside patio probably really need to go and drains nee put in.
It kind of looks like its holding water up against the house, You could do a a diamond blade sawcut away from the area holding water to help it drain. It may not be the prettiest idea but you say the patio is cracked anyway.
The fact that the cistern is filling up though means the ground water is very close to the surface, its kind of a losing battle without putting in french drains and some grading
Not necessarily.
That cistern could be filling with anything- roof runoff, etc. It could be piped from the downspouts and have nothing to do with the ground water level.
True but looking at the pics and seeing the rim of the cistern is higher than the slab plus the grade i can see makes me think ground water.
It is hard to see from pics and not in person
In reply to Antihero :
Cisterns are designed to capture water.
They usually have a pipe underground tying into them from a source (often the roof).
The rim height is irrelevant.
In reply to EvanB :
Are we talking about a cistern, or a sump?
A cistern is a water tank. It’s supposed to hold water.
A sump is a pit, usually with a pump. It is designed to catch water, but not hold it. It’s supposed to drain, and be pumped out. Often has no bottom, or a gravel bottom.
I think you mean cistern. That’s why it has a concrete bottom.
The responses here from others seem to think you are taking about a sump.
SVreX said:In reply to EvanB :
Are we talking about a cistern, or a sump?
A cistern is a water tank. It’s supposed to hold water.
A sump is a pit, usually with a pump. It is designed to catch water, but not hold it. It’s supposed to drain, and be pumped out. Often has no bottom, or a gravel bottom.
I think you mean cistern. That’s why it has a concrete bottom.
The responses here from others seem to think you are taking about a sump.
He just says he never hit bottom, could be either. Im going off the assumption that its a sump
In reply to Antihero :
No he didn’t. He said he couldn’t DRILL through the bottom with a 6” drill bit.
It has a concrete bottom.
That’s why the rim is higher than the patio. It’s not supposed to capture random surface water.
The only thing confusing me is that 15 gallons is a bit small for a cistern (but pretty large for a sump)
Downspout (or a patio drain) is probably filling the cistern. Replace the pump and see what happens.
SVreX said:In reply to Antihero :
No he didn’t. He said he couldn’t DRILL through the bottom with a 6” drill bit.
It has a concrete bottom.
That’s why the rim is higher than the patio. It’s not supposed to capture random surface water.
Good point, i assumed he just couldnt hit a hard bottom, but if its concrete its not a sump. 6 inch base is pretty thick too and 15 gallons is sort of useless as a cistern especially if its coming from multiple sources.
Of course if it is a cistern and im right about ground water, if he got thru the bottom now its gonna fill up
In reply to OHSCrifle :
I agree.
The system was built for a purpose, and it’s not serving that purpose right now. Pump, clogs, etc.
I think the water that accumulates in that cistern is going straight into your basement, instead of where it was designed to go.
And drilling holes in the bottom is the wrong idea.
In reply to EvanB :
I am trying to understand this cistern, and read a little more carefully...
You wrote:
"The water level is always above the hold in the side where the pipes go into the pump in the basement."
So, the cistern drains INTO the basement (the sump pump?), and is then pumped out?
No bueno. If that's the way it was built, you need to eliminate this cistern. Your house is the right age that those pipes could be rusted through, and the water from the cistern would drain anywhere it felt like. Most likely, against the outside of the foundation, then leak into the basement.
SVreX said:In reply to OHSCrifle :
I agree.
The system was built for a purpose, and it’s not serving that purpose right now. Pump, clogs, etc.
I think the water that accumulates in that cistern is going straight into your basement, instead of where it was designed to go.
And drilling holes in the bottom is the wrong idea.
I think drilling the bottom out might actually amplify the problem.
It is a cistern with a concrete bottom. The idea of drilling into the bottom was that it would drain into the ground instead of holding water. It fills up either way. I will take more pictures in the morning. It does seem quite small to be a useful cistern.
In reply to EvanB :
I understand what you were trying to do, but that also could have just put more water in the ground near the foundation wall, instead of draining wherever it is supposed to.
Have you confirmed that the cistern drains into the house? Into the sump pump?
Here are is what I am thinking...
The cistern was originally intended to do what cisterns do- capture roof runoff for household use. Roof downspouts filled it (and maybe the floor drains too). It had an overflow, which drained into the sump pump in the basement (bad idea).
Since then most of the downspouts have been re-routed, the lines have clogged, and the drain pipe to the basement has deteriorated.
If I am right, you need to abandon that cistern and fill it. It is no longer serving its intended purpose. It is capturing water and draining near the foundation wall.
But first you need to identify the water source. It’s filling with something. Probably a remaining downspout and the floor drains. Definitely reroute the roof downspouts.
If the floor drains go to the cistern, seal them off too (but make sure you have positive surface drainage off that patio).
This wont fix your problem. You have multiple things happening at once here. But it may go a long way toward eliminating a lot of volume of water that is dumping under the patio.
After that, seal the cracks in the patio, and the joint between the patio and the block wall. Also waterproof the face of the block on the outside. Your pictures show a lot of peeling paint and organic growth at the base of that wall- water is absorbing into your block.
I don’t think you have to dig up the patio (yet), but you definitely need to get the water away.
My understanding is to always seal from the outside in. Otherwise you are just trapping water where you don't want it.
Although we are hardcore DIY folk, it very well may be worth consulting a professional here. As much as we try to help, you may need experinced boots on the ground.
My only datapoint is helping a buddy seal his basement, only to have it give way in a much worse manner less than a year later. I would avoid that route at all costs. He spent more than the home was worth repairing the issues correctly after years of him, and the PO, halfarsing it. This was in an area with a high water table, where basements are rare. Soil, water table, grade, and slab design all matter. Your nuke option would be my baseline option if going diy.
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