Bathrooms confuse me.

One of our fire stations was recently renovated. The four bathrooms on the second floor living quarters are fully wheelchair accessible, including toilets and showers. We currently have approximately zero working firefighters who are wheelchair bound.

On the other hand, the station where I work has one bathroom with one inaccessible toilet and one tiny shower. There are three people who work in this station at all times and some shifts have a female firefighter.

We need to find a compromise somewhere.

alfadriver wrote:

David S. Wallens wrote: See, same place. Nice bathrooms, huh?

Hard to tell- there was a line each time I wanted to use it, and by then, it was kind of a mess. But it probably was nice. Hockey games limit when you can go- as few leave in the middle of a play.

Not to brag, but I had the whole place to myself. It was before curtain, so the arena was still filling up.

IMHO, the hard part will be to teach men that it's incredibly inconsiderate to pee on the seat. For some reason, that does not stick to all men.

As a man, that's totally disgusting, and I see it probably twice a month. Since there are many places that have unisex bathrooms already, I feel sorry for women who have to deal with that. yuk.

In the end we are all humans and should treat each other with respect and dignity.

David S. Wallens wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

David S. Wallens wrote: See, same place. Nice bathrooms, huh?

Hard to tell- there was a line each time I wanted to use it, and by then, it was kind of a mess. But it probably was nice. Hockey games limit when you can go- as few leave in the middle of a play.

Not to brag, but I had the whole place to myself. It was before curtain, so the arena was still filling up.

So did you pee in all of the bathrooms???

It is a nice arena- I hope we go again there for a frozen four.

alfadriver wrote: IMHO, the hard part will be to teach men that it's incredibly inconsiderate to pee on the seat. For some reason, that does not stick to all men. As a man, that's totally disgusting, and I see it probably twice a month. Since there are many places that have unisex bathrooms already, I feel sorry for women who have to deal with that. yuk.

According to Mrs Apex, there seem to be some gross ladies around our office who need to learn the same lesson.

Something about hovercraft?

I totally get the whole Liberty and Justice for All business, but in the great Venn Diagram of things, we are expending a tremendous percentage of our time and money accommodating subsets of subsets.

Woody wrote: One of our fire stations was recently renovated. The four bathrooms on the second floor living quarters are fully wheelchair accessible, including toilets and showers. We currently have approximately zero working firefighters who are wheelchair bound.

It will be ready for the first paraplegic operator of a robotic firefighting avatar

Maybe what we really need to do is go back to Roman/Greek times where there was a bathroom with about 100 holes along the wall of a 20x20 room. And use togas. Sitting only.

No walls, and nothing to see. Can have a conversation better that way, too.

Maybe even use marble so that it's nice and cold to speed up the process...

Woody wrote: I totally get the whole Liberty and Justice for All business, but in the great Venn Diagram of things, we are expending a tremendous percentage of our time and money accommodating subsets of subsets.

I think it could also be said about the amount of concern and fervor being expressed over subsets and what they do in private.

I guess I'll be good and stop there before the whole thing flounders. It describes politics and how politicized these stupid little hot topics get.

I used a "multi-stall gender inclusive washroom" in the busy cafeteria building I went to have lunch in just now. There are several in there.

I picked a stall, closed the door, did my business, and had my trousers already zipped up when I opened the door again.

There was a woman in there who did likewise. Neither of us caught fire or exploded.

My take: If an individual identifies themselves as a specific gender; they use that bathroom. End of story. The "keep to your own business" of public restrooms still exists. We don't need new laws.

SVreX: I've been using public restrooms for 30 some years now and I've never seen exposed genitalia. The issue was not a transgender issue as much as mental health issue (I realize mental health issues can be frequent with transgender).

In reply to Jay:

Now that's how you do progressive! I like it.

On the topic of gender identity and bathrooms, like most issues related to the LGBT community or whatever, I really couldn't give less of a berkeley. And I mean that in a positive way. How they want to identify, or whom they want to marry, or where they want to poop or pee doesn't affect me or bother me in the least. You want to expose yourself to the thunder my rear end is capable of unleashing, be my guest.

As others have mentioned, what happened to the girl in the OP, while still disturbing, is less of a transgender issue and more one of sexual deviancy, if it was in fact intentional. I can't fathom a legitimate reason as to why that should have happened and can understand if the girl felt threatened, but it's not because the exposer was trans, it's because they were a perv.

That being said, I do see how the policy of "use whatever bathroom you identify with" can create problems. As someone else mentions, what do you do about a registered (or just a perv who hasn't been caught yet) sex offender who chooses to identify as the gender opposite that of their biological identity? Could this individual potentially pose a threat? Certainly. Does this threat already exist in our current system? Yes, BUT we're now creating a protected class under which these people can, by their own choice, identify. I see problems occurring somewhere down the line, albeit not enough of one to justify tailoring policy around it.

Don't show me your junk (this goes for anyone in a public bathroom, no matter the sex or gender or orientation or whatever). Don't pee on the floor or the seat.

Those two rules are really all I need. But we can't even get that second one in an all male bathroom at work.

Apexcarver wrote:

Woody wrote: I totally get the whole Liberty and Justice for All business, but in the great Venn Diagram of things, we are expending a tremendous percentage of our time and money accommodating subsets of subsets.

I think it could also be said about the amount of concern and fervor being expressed over subsets and what they do in private. I guess I'll be good and stop there before the whole thing flounders. It describes politics and how politicized these stupid little hot topics get.

Agreed on both ends. The amount of time and effort spent discussing issues that affect a very small minority of the population, just because they bitch louder than anyone else, is silly. The amount of berkeleys the masses give about these issues, which by and large have zero bearing on their daily lives, is silly.

In conclusion, everyone should give less berkeleys.

there is only one fix... porta potties everywhere

JohnRW1621 wrote: I'm more surprised that the dealership is allowed to have second story work space without elevator or lift access. You say only 3 clerical workers are up there but if a qualified but wheelchair bound person ever applies to work there as clerical they will surely be discriminated.

Law permits this, depending on occupancy.

The business has to be willing to make 1st floor accommodations.

alfadriver wrote:

mad_machine wrote: honestly. one big bathroom with locking stalls would solve a lot of issues.. how many times have been at a game and seen one man in the men's room and a line of ladies trying to get into theirs?

Other parts of the world are like that. Exposing yourself in the bathroom is not right in any bathroom for any gender. Anyway, at the hockey stadium in Tampa, all of the bathrooms are stalls only- no urinals anywhere. First step to gender neutral bathrooms. Just make the walls higher and lower. Little girls already go into the mens bathroom (with their dad), just like little boys go into the womens (with mom). This whole thing about newly exposing people to predators is nonsense- they are already there, if it's a risk. BTW, Paul- not all people with handicaps use wheelchairs. Some can use the stairs. Not sure why you think that the only handicap that requires the big stall are wheelchairs.

I am well versed in all applicable handicaps.

The issue was specifically wheelchair radius and wheelchair accessible cabinetry and sink.

this whole topic is why I hold #2 until I get home. Not really, I just prefer to poo in my own toilet and not be bothered.

i failed to mention- this was high school aged.

I'm not sure there are many communities in the US ready for gender neutral bathrooms in the high schools.

Woody wrote: I totally get the whole Liberty and Justice for All business, but in the great Venn Diagram of things, we are expending a tremendous percentage of our time and money accommodating subsets of subsets.

Well said. Pretty much my point.

There wasn't a problem until the laws created one.

Apexcarver wrote:

alfadriver wrote: IMHO, the hard part will be to teach men that it's incredibly inconsiderate to pee on the seat. For some reason, that does not stick to all men. As a man, that's totally disgusting, and I see it probably twice a month. Since there are many places that have unisex bathrooms already, I feel sorry for women who have to deal with that. yuk.

According to Mrs Apex, there seem to be some gross ladies around our office who need to learn the same lesson. Something about hovercraft?

For a while my wife had to work in a place where she had to use the public restrooms of a retail store.

Apparently some women attempt to hover regardless of #1 or #2, and their skills are so poor that they E36 M3 all over the porcelain and walls.

The Hoff wrote: There wasn't a problem until the laws created one.

Or until someone precious decided to create the need for a law by demanding attention.