Box truck basics...

a.k.a -- "Learn me buying and owning a box truck"....

Anyone here have personal experience w/ tractors/rvs/hd eqipment ?

Browsing CL, I ran across an ad for a 17ft box truck. Im tired of being abused and mistreated by U-Hang truck rentals( as in hang u out to dry ) and kinda sorta in the market for a moving vehicle for the family business. .

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/4185710013.html

Cliff-type notes:

1996 Chevy 3500 w/ 17ft box / 160k miles / needs tranny rebuild / $1500

Would I be wise to find a HD pickup tranny in the jy and slap it in? This would be driven 4-6times/ yearly intially( 100/trip ) so Im thinking that a full tranny rebuild would cost more than I could buy a used truck for.( about $4500 ).

Should I be able to handle the general maint on this vehicle myself, or is a full-out truck shop required for most items? Ive done an oil change on one of these, and it was pretty straight forward.

Is this a good deal at all?

I have seen those in the junkyard with a v6 in them... That doesn't sound terribly fun in a vehicle that big.

A 3500 box truck should be basically a 3500 dually. Pretty easy to work on. Since the box has all the aeros of a house it's going to get atrocious highway gas mileage. If you are going to start a moving business you could do a lot worse. Try to get him down around $1k, then check Rock Auto for a $1500 rebuilt trans and boogie on.

Is the tranny swap something that I can physically do in my yard w/o a lift and power tools( ie ones used for tractor and HD equipment work )?

Sure. You can do it on a flat floor with one of those Harbor Freight trans jacks.

thanks for the info!!

If you are going for a box truck.. do -not- get a van based one. If you think Vans suck to work on, the HD parts make it even worse.

Go get an Isuzu or a Mitsubishi, or a small Hino Box Truck. The tilt cab makes life -much- easier and the parts are truely heavy duty, not beefed up pickup truck parts.

You also get a much better turning radius, better brakes, and they are easier to park as you are sitting atop the front wheels and can see exactly where the nose of the truck is

This is truely a case of "go big or go home"

I put a million miles (Slight exageration) in Box trucks.. I would own an Isuzu (or the GM variant) in a heartbeat. They may not be as fast as the Mitsus, but they get much better miliage.

Stay away from the automatics if you can.. They are not bad, but you really want gears in a real truck

mad_machine wrote: If you are going for a box truck.. do -not- get a van based one.

I disagree.

Lower floor for loading, maximum capacity for the wheelbase, easy walk through from cab to rear, much better driving position, etc. There is no way I'd own a pickup based box truck.

I also would not want a manual transmission.

They are hard to work on, but extremely reliable, so they don't need work too often.

I've worked out of a box van for years- it's a great work vehicle.

But it does drive like a split-level 4 BR.

I used to sell these. By and large, go look at the used Penske units. Better maintenance, bettor looking with the exception of the color itself. After Penske, I would look at Budget.

I loooove the 'Zuzu box trucks, they are great pieces of equipment. If I ever go box truck they are at the very top of my list. The only drawback is that it does require some specialized knowledge of diesels and turbo systems to keep them running. Not that they break down often; they don't.

A basic GM 3500 chassis will be easier for a novice to work on.

If you look you can pick up a decent Hino or Isuzu for the same price that has a 4 cyl turbo diesel and does not need a transmission. The 350 will do the job, but it will be painful and you will never pass a gas station. We have had a Hino and it was just an awesome little truck. Mileage in the high teens with a load on.

The Isuzu NPR (and it's GM twins W4 and W4500) chassis were available with a 350 chevy motor, don't recall which trans was behind it though. Solid reliable stuff they were.

I've driven the cab-over Mitsu's and Isuzu's and honestly wasn't impressed. I much prefer a good ol' Ford F350(or bigger), or the GM equivalent…unless you need to haul way more crap than a 1-ton chassis can handle, and at that point I'd go to Penske too and find a nice used International regular-cab with lift-gate.

Edit: My experience is mostly with highway miles, and some around (small)town driving. In a metro area where your rarely hit/exceed 55mph, the Mitsu and Isuzu may be perfectly suited for that use.

SVreX wrote:

mad_machine wrote: If you are going for a box truck.. do -not- get a van based one.

I disagree. Lower floor for loading, maximum capacity for the wheelbase, easy walk through from cab to rear, much better driving position, etc. There is no way I'd own a pickup based box truck. I also would not want a manual transmission. They are hard to work on, but extremely reliable, so they don't need work too often. I've worked out of a box van for years- it's a great work vehicle. But it does drive like a split-level 4 BR.

pickup based? I am talking real box truck.. with a chassis what was designed to be a box truck. I did a lot of work to the W7 I used to drive and some work to an NPR, flip the cab up and -everything- is right there. You might need some specialized parts, but there is nothing blocking your view of the engine.

I also drove that W7 all over the northeast.. Boston, NYC, Philly, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, DC.. the 5 speed never missed a beat and while rushhour could be tiring on the old left leg, it was not intolerable.

The few van based boxes I have been in always seem floppy with really bad handling and eventually the link between cab and box will start to leak

I had a 26' truck built on an F700. Cummins diesel, 6-speed Eaton Road Ranger. That thing was a bloody tank.

I've also owned a couple step vans. Nice for some things but SO loud inside. The low deck was nice, but the wheel wells bugged me for things like pallets or large items.

This was my 26 footer. I bought it to move from L.A. to Austin and then ended up keeping it for a few years.

How big do the storage boxes get on the mitsu/isuzu models? I would be moving setup equip for a consignment business that we have. It would only be driven maybe 10 times in a year, but i move alot of bulky items. I can usually fill a 26ft uhual from front to back and leave maybe 2ft unused. I have driven penske and uhual trucks but tend to go uhual b/c its closer and cheaper for the time period that we need it.

Looks like I need to pass on this one. I'll be back after I do more research. I dont want to rush this.

Thanks for the info.

mad_machine wrote: pickup based? I am talking real box truck.. with a chassis what was designed to be a box truck.

Got it. I thought you were talking about something weird.

Carry on.

In reply to curtis73:

How was insurance handled on this? Other box type trucks?

mrwillie wrote: How big do the storage boxes get on the mitsu/isuzu models? I would be moving setup equip for a consignment business that we have. It would only be driven maybe 10 times in a year, but i move alot of bulky items. I can usually fill a 26ft uhual from front to back and leave maybe 2ft unused. I have driven penske and uhual trucks but tend to go uhual b/c its closer and cheaper for the time period that we need it. Looks like I need to pass on this one. I'll be back after I do more research. I dont want to rush this. Thanks for the info.

I have seen them as small as 12 foot long up to the 26 foot by 8 x 8 I used to drive.. that was a big truck, it was 12 foot 6" high at it's max height.

I also really prefer cab overs for box trucks. The ride might not be as nice (you are sitting right above the front wheels) but you get the most box space for wheel base that way.. plus a shorter turning radius and it is easier to work on the engine

CGLockRacer wrote: In reply to curtis73: How was insurance handled on this? Other box type trucks?

In CA I could register it as under 26k GVW and insure it on my regular insurance. In TX I had to have commercial insurance, but with my listed mileage/year and low liability limits it wasn't any more expensive than just insuring any of my other vehicles. Where it would get expensive I'm sure is when you start using it commercially; adding employee drivers, lots of mileage, lots of liability for customers' belongings in the back, etc.

I think it has to do with state law first, but also has to do with the insurance company. In CA when I was with Horace Mann, I was forced to get commercial insurance for my E150 cargo van because it didn't have rear windows or rear seats.... but with Progressive in CA I could do the 26k gvw box truck on regular insurance.

@curtis -- were u able to handle the maint on the 26footer yourself, of did u farm it out?

Chasing this to a conclusion I have leads on a ford boxvan 100,000 miles for $2500 or a mitsu cabover with liftgate for $3000 253000 miles. WWGRM do?

mrwillie wrote: @curtis -- were u able to handle the maint on the 26footer yourself, of did u farm it out?

Maintenance was dirt simple. It was a Cummins 5.9L, so things like oil filters were available at any parts store. Fuel filters were universal, as were the big air filters, but all of the above were so huge that they weren't scheduled for maintenance until every 30,000.

In fact, most of the maintenance was far easier than (for instance) a Corolla, or a Maxima, or an E30. I could fit me and my toolbox on the frame rail to change the fuel filter and never have to dislocate a shoulder to reach an exhaust bolt. The entire hood flipped up giving 270-degree access to the engine. I drained and refilled the Road Ranger tranny while sitting cross-legged under the truck.

Bottom line is.... if you pick them well, they won't need anything but occasional oil changes. Mine did snap an exhaust manifold bolt, but it was at chest level, in plain sight, and no funky angles were involved. I actually fixed it one evening with a reverse drill bit and didn't even have to change clothes after work.

Many of them are glorified pickups. You can't take a 1-ton chevy with a 350 and magically make it an 18k vehicle. It will still have a 12si alternator, the same water pump used in a Caprice, and a 6-quart oil pan. It has to be a "real" truck if that makes sense. The alternator on mine was only 120 amps, but it was probably 50 lbs and 12" in diameter. The rear axle had something like a 18" ring gear and 5" bearings.

Mine was rated at 180 hp, but the torque made it just fine... as long as you kept it between 1500 and 2100 rpms. I filled the box so full that I was embarrassed, and I was towing about 18,000 lbs. The nice thing is, I knew I wasn't going to overheat. I knew that the 21" diameter clutch wouldn't overheat or fail. I knew the Eaton 6-speed wasn't going to be overwhelmed by torque or weight. I knew that the insanely massive drums behind the 19.5" wheels wouldn't have any trouble overheating.

When I compared it all to my most recent 22' step van: 454 with half the torque, TH400 with way less than half the capacity, GM 10.5" rear and 14" drums, 14si alternator trying to make 140 amps... it was just a no-brainer.

My box truck was a full-on, genuine, 26k gvw monster and everything was overkill. Think about this as well.... I bought mine with 98k on the clock for $9750. You couldn't buy a Cummins in a "wimpy" little Dodge 1-ton for less than $20k with those specs.

I sold it three years later with about 20k miles additional for $9500, but I had to deliver it 600 miles for that price. I figure I lost $450 total.

If you are willing to step up to a "real" truck, it usually pays off in reliability and resale.

One more thing I'll add....

I probably would have had mild trouble with bigger things. For instance, if my pickup truck needs a pinion bearing, I have the tools and a jack to do it. If that huge axle in the box truck needed something, I don't think I would have had the facilities to do it.

But... Many of those larger truck pieces are designed for million-mile service. The Cummins in my truck was scheduled for overhauls every 600k. Some of the new Detroit engines are scheduled for overhauls at 1M miles, or whenever oil consumption suggests.

Things like the serpentine belt would have been an easy swap, but they are incredibly thick, wide, and would probably last hundreds of thousands of miles.

TRoglodyte wrote: Chasing this to a conclusion I have leads on a ford boxvan 100,000 miles for $2500 or a mitsu cabover with liftgate for $3000 253000 miles. WWGRM do?

go with the Mitsu. everything Curtis said is true. A -real- box truck is way overbuilt for everything you need it for. This is a true commercial/fleet vehicle that has to pay for itself to the company that owns it. This is not a 1 ton pickup that is designed to have "problems" at certain intervals to make the dealerships money..

Trucks that have known problems don't sell. Reliability means profits, broking down costs more than just getting it fixed