Breaking up is hard...

Well, I dunno. People definitely change over the years. It's not so much whether the people in a marriage or relationship change, it's whether they are willing to accept that change in themselves and each other. I know plenty of couples where they each are vastly different people yet they accept each other's differences and make it work.

BUT!

On that note: to meet someone, start a relationship with them, see something about them that really bugs you (as opposed to small differences) and expect them to change that because you want them to is just foolish. It's not gonna happen and that will lead to big problems on both sides.

Lots of good advice here, if a little conflicting...

She is a graphic designer for a local science museum and makes pretty decent enough money. Her finances are a total mess though, and she has a tendency to ignore the bills for frivolous stuff...everything just seems like a ploy to impress someone else. I have also just had enough with the clingy stuff, the constant obligations, etc. I feel like a totally different person than four years ago, but she seems nearly the same, and it drives me nuts. In retrospect I totally feel like we moved too fast, I got involved for the wrong reasons, and so on. I feel like I have learned a ton about people, women, and relationships from this experience, no doubt, but I don't think it is worth the stress of constantly keeping this ship righted anymore.

Things like that aside it is one of those things where on paper I feel like I should be happy but I am just not and I find myself avoiding going home for lunch, etc so that I don't have to deal with her...as much as I would like to work things out I also feel a need for independence right now and would really prefer to be on my own while I try to find a foothold somewhere.

I would love to see a therapist at some point (I probably still have some issues to work through from my mom's suicide in '07) but it is not financially feasible right now .

You still in school? They have free therapists.

I am 23, and just got engaged to my girlfriend of 5 years. Seriously considered breaking up at 1 year, 3 years, and 4 years. But frankly, all of our problems were from too much stress, not us. Well, that isn't true--I can be an shiny happy person. But most of the big problems were just from not being able to be in a relationship while in difficult majors in college, or having full time jobs and living apart and me not communicating well. There was nothing wrong with us when we were together, and had time to have the relationship. Oh, and also, we need our space. When we were living together, we had 4 people living in a place that was really only meant for 3 people. If I had a room to myself--it could have literally been big enough only for a recliner, guitar, and small tv--it would have been awesome.

Frankly, it sounds like your issues aren't due to anything like this. It sounds like there are things that aren't going to be fixed in time. At the very least, it sounds like you should take a break. I would start to talk about it right now with her if you think it could be saved, and be making an exit strategy if you don't htink it can.

Sorry to hear this, Desmond.

I have no advice, other than I agree with the cut-loose-sooner-than-later crowd.

SlickDizzy wrote: Things like that aside it is one of those things where on paper I feel like I should be happy but I am just not and I find myself avoiding going home for lunch, etc so that I don't have to deal with her...as much as I would like to work things out I also feel a need for independence right now and would really prefer to be on my own while I try to find a foothold somewhere.

Are you not happy with life in general? Or as happy with life as can be expected and not happy in the relationship?

You should be in a relationship because it makes you a happier, healthier, better person. It is something that is fulfilling. It is not something you just stay in because you can't come up with a good reason to leave. Any healthy relationship takes work. It needs to provide you with something to make it worth the effort.

It sounds to me like you are maturing and figuring out what you want. This relationship is not providing that. It's not hurting you, but it isn't giving you what you need to grow. That is totally legitimate. The amicable breakup of my own was much that same way. It was good for most of college, but after several years it was clear that what we needed and wanted just didn't quite align.

It's not about running away from something that is bad. It's about moving towards something that is actively good.

Oh, and cut loose sooner than later. Otherwise all you are doing is prolonging your misery and stringing her along. The sooner you cut free, the sooner you can both move on. Just don't be a dick about it.

SlickDizzy wrote: I feel like I have learned a ton about women

you are truly berkeleyed now … we as guys … NEVER learn much about women … much less a ton

The long and short of it is successful long-term relationships are about commitment, not happiness and warm fuzzy feelings. Its not that they don't produce happiness or strong feelings, but if those are the foundation, rather than the side effect, the relationship is doomed from the get-go. Human beings, and the circumstances they find themselves in, simply change too much over the space of years (or sometimes even minutes!) to sustain a relationship long term based on feelings and happiness. Why don't we hear/talk about this? Because that doesn't sell jewelry and greeting cards, and, given the way our culture pushes "feelings based" relationships, makes anyone who talks about it seems like a cold, heartless SOB.

When my wife and I started talking about getting married, my dad explained it to me like this: "You have to think of your commitment to this woman like the hatch on a sub, if you leave it open, even just a little bit, the relationship will sink. How much you leave it open merely determines how long the sinking takes to happen." 19 years into our relationship and 18 years into our marriage, I can tell you he was absolutely right. We've been through a lot that has dragged the emotional component of the relationship all over the place (law school, kids, family illness, autism diagnosis for my son, etc) and its the commitment that gets you through the wild swings of emotion, not the other way around. (Opinion warning) FWIW - based on almost four years doing legal work regarding break ups (family court work), I'm not a fan of the living together concept. It simulates commitment, and causes people to make personal entanglements (most unfortunately, children) as though they were committed to each other when, in fact, they aren't.

BTW - directly applicable to your circumstances, there's two components to commitment. First, you have to be ready, as a person, to make a long term commitment. Second, you have to decide that this is the person you want to make that commitment to. In terms of explaining it to your girl, explain it as though it were the first one. It will make the break up process a whole lot smoother (if in fact you head down that road). For your own health and future decision making, you really should figure out which of the two is really in play here so you don't make mistakes in the future. Best of luck to you.

^Your dad is a wise man.

I say ditch the relationship and stay single for awhile. The amount I changed (and what I wanted from life and a potential partner) between 19 and 24 was staggering.

z31maniac wrote: I say ditch the relationship and stay single for awhile. The amount I changed (and what I wanted from life and a potential partner) between 19 and 24 was staggering.

This x1000

Curmudgeon wrote: Well, I dunno. People definitely change over the years.

I argue against this notion. People don't change, but they become more intune/realize who they truly are. Its semantics, but I think there is an important decision.

And of course, the ever important "people only change/act differently if they WANT to".

Having said all that, I think it is valuable to keep in mind the relationship. It doesn't sound like you are happy, but ALL relationships go through up and down periods. If you truly do love the person, then your desire to be committed to them won't change and you'll work through it. And if you don't, then everyone is right, it's time to get out. Kazoospec says it best. ALSO, I don't know if GRM is the best demographic to ask this question to...

get out, but don't be a dick about it. pay your share of the rent until the lease is up if you're the one who leaves. be prepared to pay her share if she's the one who leaves.

I gather she hasn't done anything overtly hurtful (messing around, stealing from you, etc) so I second the 'get out but don't be a dick about it'. Be prepared to stick to your guns even if there is a tearful scene which will definitely make you SEEM like a dick.

OTOH, if she has done anything deliberately hurtful don't worry about being seen as a dick. Just GTFO before there are any more chances and this is very important: get away and stay away.

Example of how NOT to do it:

I have a co worker whose GF constantly E36 M3s on him, they split up, then he goes back, last time they had put a down payment on a house then she backed out of both the deal and the relationship. (It seems that she was instrumental in the breakup of his marriage 3 years ago as well.) It was interesting how she did it: about five weeks ago she called him in the middle of the workday, told him she needed to see him right away and it was important then gave him an address. The address was a therapist's office, he walked in and in front of the therapist she read off a list of the reasons they couldn't stay together. This cost him a sizeable sum to get out of the house deal and he wound up moving himself and his daughter into a friend's spare bedroom, which is where they are staying as I write this. This guy is in his late 40's, old enough to know better.

Yesterday he came to work and mentioned she had called him, they had slept together the previous night.

Woody wrote:

SlickDizzy wrote: This has arguably been my first "serious relationship" and for some reason at 20 I really thought that was what I wanted.

Be careful of what you wish for when you are in your 20's. You may have it when you are in your 30's, and you may not be able to get rid of it when you are in your 40's.

This is so solid.

At 20, you're still well into the stage of having "throwaway" relationships. You're still super young now. Way too much growing up/spreading-of-wings goes on from your early-to-mid 20's. It's a major developmental stage. Being tied down to someone through that stage and potentially marrying them is more often than not a recipe for disaster.

You learned about relationships in that relationship. Now head into the next one with that knowledge. In my 20's, new women were the most intoxicating thing in the world. That excitement is something I certainly miss now.

My advise is don't drag it out through the holidays and pretend you're happy when you're not. Cut the cord and cut it now. You're both young and will both bounce back.

dankspeed wrote: You're both young and will both bounce back.

...and yes, we sound like cliché-spewing shiny happy people when we say this, but at 40+, OP will look back and agree wholeheartedly.

In regard to overly-committed relationships at a young age, "you're too young" is a cliché because it's so damn true. Especially now vs. 40 years ago.

At your age, it's not surprising that you've grown unhappy. I am 30 and feel I've learned more in the last five years than the first 25.

If you're having a hard time in your relationship, dont quit, seek help. Get relationship counselling. A good relationship is not easy, or always fun, it's ALOT of work.

If it doesn't work out, hit the gym every day and stay busy.

It's hard to find the right person, but really easy to find the wrong one. Just because you do love someone, doesn't necessarily mean that she's the one. People aren't always meant to be together. Don't make a bad choice simply because its easy.

Fortunately, we have the ability to love more than one person during our lifetime.

Woody wrote: Fortunately, we have the ability to love more than one person during our lifetime.

...but boy, that first "BIG" love can stick with you for the rest of your life. When you're younger, it's all so much more intense. The impact of love is much bigger at a younger age, IMHO.

I don't even know the women I dated in my early 20's. We'd likely be so different from each other at this point, it would be over, anyway.

Woody wrote: It's hard to find the right person, but really easy to find the wrong one.

There is more than one car in my driveway. They are not all for the same thing. It wouldn't seem logical to race a 7000lb truck around a road course, do a boulevard cruise in a BMW wagon or go on vacation in a 2000lb 400hp E30 with one seat and a full cage.

Maybe there is no "right" one for everything.

The cake is a lie.

gamby wrote:

Woody wrote: Fortunately, we have the ability to love more than one person during our lifetime.

...but boy, that first "BIG" love can stick with you for the rest of your life. When you're younger, it's all so much more intense. The impact of love is much bigger at a younger age, IMHO. I don't even know the women I dated in my early 20's. We'd likely be so different from each other at this point, it would be over, anyway.

Mmmm... I dunno. I looked up someone I was deeply involved with back in my 20's a short while back. She's married now. There was an instant reconnection as if all those years had not passed, we broke off communication before something dangerous happened...

...and yes it still stings a bit.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Woody wrote: It's hard to find the right person, but really easy to find the wrong one.

There is more than one car in my driveway. They are not all for the same thing. It wouldn't seem logical to race a 7000lb truck around a road course,

It moves, therefore, someone will race it.

JoeyM wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Woody wrote: It's hard to find the right person, but really easy to find the wrong one.

There is more than one car in my driveway. They are not all for the same thing. It wouldn't seem logical to race a 7000lb truck around a road course,

It moves, therefore, someone will race it.

Sure. Those are cool. Still... I'd get sick of those and want something different in a week. Why does that only apply to toys?

Donna Reed at home... Tori Black in the bedroom and someone I've never heard of in the shop. What could go wrong?

Dizzy...

I think you have been following my junk... I'm 40 and after 20 years of dating and 14 years of being married to my wife, she decided she is gay. Despite my ridiculously liberal views on relationships and marriage, I thought I truly found a woman that I could spend the rest of my life with.

I will speak for myself. I gave too much. I will never advocate restricting emotions or hiding things, but I will say that following your emotions is a great thing. Follow what you feel.

I'm another one who says, "Get therapy." Whether it's for you both, or just you, having someone who's not invested in the outcome act as a sounding board is good. In my experience, therapy has given me the communication or coping tools for difficult experiences, such as break ups.

And, as several folks have said, there's never a "good time" to split up. There's also no way to "make this easier," to "hurt her less," or anything like that. It's going to suck for both of you. Think of this as AFGO, er, ABGO: Another berkeleying Growth Opportunity.