From another thread:
mad_machine wrote: all the options you could get with the 5 speed.. (Which did not include a sunroof.. you could only get that with the Auto)
Can ANYBODY explain to me why manufacturers lump completely unrelated options together, or lock them away from each other like that?
I would guess that they don't want to end up building just one car with a given combination of options.
A. Because they're run by idiots
and
B. It's cheaper. Thank the bean counters.
Back in the bad old days, you could order anything that would bolt together. Belvedere, 426, 3 on the tree, air conditioning with manual steering.
I sure do wish the modern manufacturers would offer a stripper/biggest motor package. They wouldn't sell a ton of them, but some of us would be very happy.
Yeah, my friends dad had a '70 Catalina wagon with wood siding and a 3 on the tree.
But really, what does a sunroof have to do with the transmission? It's not like MTX cars are made in a separate factory that doesn't have access to the sunroof delivery.
B. It's cheaper. Thank the bean counters.
a stripper/biggest motor package. They wouldn't sell a ton of them, but some of us would be very happy.
I'm curious, from a manufacturing point of view, how it's actually cheaper. in terms of an assembly line it seems like it would be easier to have a de-optioned vehicle pass through many of the work stations needing minimal additional attention, no?
impulsive wrote:B. It's cheaper. Thank the bean counters.a stripper/biggest motor package. They wouldn't sell a ton of them, but some of us would be very happy.I'm curious, from a manufacturing point of view, how it's actually cheaper. in terms of an assembly line it seems like it would be easier to have a de-optioned vehicle pass through many of the work stations needing minimal additional attention, no?
But then you would have didn't-pass-HS Joe Blow making at least 3 times the minimum wage standing around doing exactly nothing. So really, the heavily optioned vehicles make financial sense to a/the company.
I understand that options are profit generators; that's not the issue. What I don't understand is why, for instance, getting a manual transmission would prohibit you from getting a sunroof. Surely making that prohibition official across the board would be just as annoying and costly as allowing it in however many rare cases.
The only pseudo-explanation I can gather is that a perception exists that manual transmission equate to cheap in some way or another. See here: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/grm-review-kia-optima-sx/47523/page1/
Some plants, like Hyundai, are made-to-order. If the distributors order 3100 silver automatics, that's what they make. There's a longer waiting time, but fewer cars sitting around.
I've seen that too and it made no sense. All I can think of is that the bean counters and actuaries use previous sales history and say 'X percent of people who ordered this also ordered this and this, so to save time we will build Y number of cars with these preinstalled'. That probably explains why the vast majority of 2nd gen MR2's have T tops.
Sometimes the 'trim level' comes into it as well, you might have a base/S/LS/XLS version of the same vehicle, as you go up the option ladder they dump more junk on it. Thus if you want climate control as opposed to regular manual A/C it came as a package with a sunroof and leather interior, for instance.
Maybe it has to do with the wiring harness. The auto car has the harness for the roof, the manual doesn't? I'm sure there is some obscure reason that we will never understand.
I know on the Ford vans in '01, if you wanted factory cruise control, you also had to get power windows and locks. It came as a package. I'm guessing the wiring harness controlled that as well.
Toyman01 wrote: Maybe it has to do with the wiring harness. The auto car has the harness for the roof, the manual doesn't? I'm sure there is some obscure reason that we will never understand. I know on the Ford vans in '01, if you wanted factory cruise control, you also had to get power windows and locks. It came as a package. I'm guessing the wiring harness controlled that as well.
That was that way pretty much across the board on the ford trucks. You could get dealer installed power locks I think, but the other stuff came from the jump from xl to xlt package. In the pickups this also came with carpet instead of rubber floors I think
It doesn't make sense and I hate "building" cars on manufactures websites.
Only the base model is available with a manual and then try go up in package and it automatically (no pun intended) changes the vehicle to an automatic.
Also, the base models are limited to very few options. Pretty much the smokers package and full size spare. Common things like power door locks or power windows are standard nowadays.
Want Fog Lights? Nope, you got a manual base model. Want the upgraded stereo? Nope, you got a manual base model. Want a sunroof? Nope, you got a manual base model.
I feel you should be able to a higher package with a manual trans. If you want leather seats with the 20 speaker radio, but have a manual, by all means.
I hear that there are some dealers will still special order cars. I'd like to find out which ones do.
They don't want you to buy that base model. But they do want to be able to use it in their advertising to boast about the low buy-in. Uh-huh... but just try and get one of those manual strippers.
Lesley wrote: but just try and get one of those manual strippers.
Mmmmm strippers.
Seriously? You want a stripper named Manual?
Lesley wrote: They don't want you to buy that base model. But they do want to be able to use it in their advertising to boast about the low buy-in. Uh-huh... but just try and get one of those manual strippers.
Well, yeah, I fully understand that, and that's what I'm actually talking about. Why on earth does adding option packages DENY you a manual transmission (or whatever).
That's because the marketing gurus told the brass that most people want automatics. So they built a E36 M3pot of them and almost no manual strippers. (That sounds disgusting. 
) So when you 'build your car' what you are actually doing is picking a prebuilt package. 
Lesley wrote: They don't want you to buy that base model. But they do want to be able to use it in their advertising to boast about the low buy-in. Uh-huh... but just try and get one of those manual strippers.
I think he spells it "Manuel". Maybe thats why you can't find...
The view from the bean counters:
We actually just went over the mathematics/economics behind the reasoning for this today in one of my classes. Here is the basic version of why it happens, simplified to the extreme.
Lets say that there are two people looking at two options on cars. We'll say that they are John and Jane, and the options are Cruise Control (CC) and Heated Seats (HS).
John places a value of 5 on CC, and a value of 3 on HS.
Jane places a value of 2 on CC, and a value of 5 on HS.
These values are the maximum that they will pay for each.
Now, in order to maximize revenue, the company should price CC at 5 and HS at 3 for total revenue of 11. If you were to put them at 5 each, revenue is 10; 2 and 3 gets you 10 again.
Now, lets look at a bundled package at price 7. Whoa. Revenue is 14.
Hence, they're going to bundle the stuff.
Waaayyy back in the Dark Ages the dealerships would order stripped cars, not even a heater. Then they'd buy the heater/AC/CC etc kits from the manufacturer (sometimes the aftermarket) and the customer could have that stuff installed at the dealership. The mfgs finally figured that one out and squashed it.
Lots of right reasons so far. It boils down to 3 possibilities:
It's hard to do this as a car enthusiast, but we are a fringe buyer. Put yourself in some other shoes - think about something that you don't give a crap about and choose solely on price or convenience. Someone somewhere out there is passionate about that same item and can't figure out how someone could just pick whatever was on the shelf......
ABS in economy cars used to be like this. In the early and mid 90's finding a Sentra, Elantra or Protege with optional ABS was virtually impossible. Because the marketers were convinced that that price range shopper wasn't going to pay the $300 for ABS.
Manufacturer's aren't getting all that much info from dealers anymore when it comes to what to offer. I read a few years ago that Ford has a computer program that CONSTANTLY studies what folks are ordering...and if enough people don't order something (like leather in a truck or a 6 cd changer in a mid-sized sedan) within a specified time period, it gets dropped from availability. I would think other car companies do the same thing.
In 1995 or '96, Ford offered a car color on the Probe that looked like peach in some light and like pink parts of the female body in other light...it was offered for a few months, and unlike other MORE popular colors, was dropped due to lack of demand. They didn't even use it on other cars like they sometimes do.
The only time they don't do this is when they have a big customer (like a rent a car business) that wants it's cars all equipped in a way that isn't usually allowed by the factory...say, in car navigation on a basic model.
You'll need to log in to post.
