Careful who you phone home to

SCARR wrote: I read the actual court order.

and

SCARR wrote: No-one has been able to confirm that it is even true.

You read secret court order that may not even exist...

DoctorBlade wrote: Thank god I'm not with Verizon!

You realize Verizon is the LAST to comply right? everyone else has already been doing it since the bush days.

foxtrapper wrote:

SCARR wrote: I read the actual court order.

and

SCARR wrote: No-one has been able to confirm that it is even true.

You read secret court order that may not even exist...

all the news reports are based on the court order I posted. (The Op's is the first to not link to it) no-one can confirm if the order is real, or if the guardian just posted a fake order for traffic.

FT:

Reuters said: (Reuters) - The Obama administration on Thursday acknowledged that it is collecting a massive amount of telephone records from at least one carrier, reopening the debate over privacy even as it defended the practice as necessary to protect Americans against attack. ....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/06/us-usa-wiretaps-verizon-idUSBRE95502920130606

I'm on Gore's side on this too, it doesn't matter to me what his other politics are.

But here's the part that has been left out: Verizon (and all cell/ISP providers) routinely sell their customer data. Every time someone swipes a credit or debit card to buy something they are tracked, those grocery store 'fuel rewards' cards are a perfect example. The money which makes that discount possible does NOT just come out of the goodness of their hearts, it comes from the companies who buy the data.

The recent grumbling on this site about being tracked by Google ads is yet another indication of how your data is collected and sold to the highest bidder. So honestly it being turned over to the NSA isn't really much different, it just sounds nasty because it's a spy agency and not a mass marketer.

Curmudgeon wrote: So honestly it being turned over to the NSA isn't really much different, it just sounds nasty because it's a spy agency and not a mass marketer.

It is also disclosed and agreed to before you pay so you know ahead of time what is and isn't being shared and can use accordingly. I think we need stronger rules around it but... atleast I understand that it's going on and make my own choice to use it or not.

I'm surprised at how people are dismissive with "this has been going on for years... what are ya gunna do?" type stuff. It certainly been going on for years but it's taken a pretty aggressive uptick as technology has made gray areas and opportunity for exploitation where there used to be none. No good will come of sitting around pretending that it's for our own good. That is bullE36 M3. The thing to do is get involved directly or give your money to organizations who spend their efforts to defend civil liberty before you can't have a lawful assembly where you openly discuss how to stop the problem.

All this data collection... credit cards, spending habits, shopping and grocery store preferences etc. was forecast years ago...

... in 1970... why should we be surprised now where it has gone

In reply to fasted58:

Toffler was just expanding on Orwell's premise.

One need only look at the UK to see where surveillance can go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rdi_RNRpdk

tuna55 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rdi_RNRpdk

Yeah - I may have floundered here.

In reply to tuna55:

Honestly, yes you did.

This is not wiretapping. It is as close to wiretapping as a 1990 cavalier is a drift car.

SCARR wrote: In reply to tuna55: Honestly, yes you did. This is not wiretapping. It is as close to wiretapping as a 1990 cavalier is a drift car.

You must be delusional if you really watched that and don't think that applies to what's going on now. I agreed with the senator then, believe it or not.

I'll step out of the thread now.

Does not bother me one bit. Do what you have to in order to prevent another 9/11, Oklahoma City, USS Cole, US Embassy Bombing, Metro Bombing (etc ad nauseum) or more soldiers from being hacked to death in the street by some whackjob.

Heck, the NSA can listen in to my calls, videotape me peeing, put a videocamera in my hat...I have almost nothing to hide.

Apparently some of our politicians think it's just fine and dandy-

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/foreign-policy/war-terror/sen-lindsey-graham-doesnt-mind-being-wiretapped-nsa-video

In reply to tuna55:

Perhaps you don't know what wiretapping is.

This order specifically disallows any sort of wiretapping, plus it disallows name, address, and financials.

IF the gov't is doing things they are not telling us, why would this order even be needed?

Saying that this means they are wiretapping, is like a cop giving you a speeding ticket while you are parked, because you have a giant wing on your car. Yeah, you he didn't see you doing it, and there is no evidence of it, but you must be, because you have that spoiler.

you want to get mad and protest something, protest the thing you are mad at, not other things that are only related.

pinchvalve wrote: Heck, the NSA can listen in to my calls, videotape me peeing, put a videocamera in my hat...I have almost nothing to hide.

This is nonsense.

Here is a civil way to explain why this answer to privacy issues makes my hackles go up.

Why Privacy Matters Even if You Have 'Nothing to Hide' -- By Daniel J. Solove

Summary: You are under the false premise that privacy is the equivalent of secrecy.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

The gov't is out of line. Senator Rand Paul is sponsoring an Act tentatively called the "Fourth Amendment Restoration Act of 2013". I have written my socialist senators urging them to support the constitution, however I am certain that they will support further tyranny.

Press release

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Sen. Rand Paul today announced he will introduce the Fourth Amendment Restoration Act of 2013, which ensures the Constitutional protections of the Fourth Amendment are not violated by any government entity

The rest here : http://reason.com/blog/2013/06/06/rand-paul-to-introduce-fourth-amendment

The Bill : http://www.paul.senate.gov/files/documents/4thAmdtRestoration.pdf

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: So honestly it being turned over to the NSA isn't really much different, it just sounds nasty because it's a spy agency and not a mass marketer.

It is also disclosed and agreed to before you pay so you know ahead of time what is and isn't being shared and can use accordingly.I think we need stronger rules around it but... atleast I understand that it's going on and make my own choice to use it or not. I'm surprised at how people are dismissive with "this has been going on for years... what are ya gunna do?" type stuff. It certainly been going on for years but it's taken a pretty aggressive uptick as technology has made gray areas and opportunity for exploitation where there used to be none. No good will come of sitting around pretending that it's for our own good. That is bullE36 M3. The thing to do is get involved directly or give your money to organizations who spend their efforts to defend civil liberty before you can't have a lawful assembly where you openly discuss how to stop the problem.

Correct. You agree ahead of time that your information can be passed to a 3rd party, which could quite possibly include the NSA or etc. That's exactly how agencies like this justify it.

The genie's already out of the bottle and has been for years (like probably 50 years), putting it back is gonna really be difficult. Way back when it was deemed legal for credit card companies (as a for instance) to sell your information to a third party, this was back in the days when the US mail reigned supreme. At that time if your CC company sold your info to someone else it might be six months before you'd get that junk mail. Technology is definitely outstripping privacy laws in a tearing hurry, now your buying habits are almost instantaneously transmitted nearly everywhere. But the laws governing this are still stuck at 50 years ago.

I'm not worried about the FBI or etc reading my Emails etc from a standpoint of their content, the poor bastard that has to read them needs No Doz and Monster on tap. But my financial information is something else entirely.

One more reason I think the "Patriot" Act is one of the biggest pieces of E36 M3 legislature I've seen in my time.

Does not bother me one bit. Do what you have to in order to prevent another 9/11, Oklahoma City, USS Cole, US Embassy Bombing, Metro Bombing (etc ad nauseum) or more soldiers from being hacked to death in the street by some whackjob. Heck, the NSA can listen in to my calls, videotape me peeing, put a videocamera in my hat...I have almost nothing to hide.

Yes in deed. Safety first, liberty and freedom be damned. Better kept safe, like a castrated slave or livestock than to dare live wildly dangerous and free.

Declaration of Independence be damned. Fools they were, declaring life and liberty sacred and worth fighting for. Better it is to be "Kept" warm and safe under the blanket of national security. A blanket bOught and paid for, with nothing more than the minor loss of liberty, a worthless commodity indeed, to some.

Curmudgeon wrote: I'm on Gore's side on this too, it doesn't matter to me what his other politics are. But here's the part that has been left out: Verizon (and all cell/ISP providers) routinely sell their customer data. Every time someone swipes a credit or debit card to buy something they are tracked, those grocery store 'fuel rewards' cards are a perfect example. The money which makes that discount possible does NOT just come out of the goodness of their hearts, it comes from the companies who buy the data. The recent grumbling on this site about being tracked by Google ads is yet another indication of how your data is collected and sold to the highest bidder. So honestly it being turned over to the NSA isn't really much different, it just sounds nasty because it's a spy agency and not a mass marketer.

Wait, are you saying I'm now going to start receiving PHONE CALLS from plus-size lingerie models instead of just seeing google ads?

I better go charge my phone.

jg

JG Pasterjak wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: I'm on Gore's side on this too, it doesn't matter to me what his other politics are. But here's the part that has been left out: Verizon (and all cell/ISP providers) routinely sell their customer data. Every time someone swipes a credit or debit card to buy something they are tracked, those grocery store 'fuel rewards' cards are a perfect example. The money which makes that discount possible does NOT just come out of the goodness of their hearts, it comes from the companies who buy the data. The recent grumbling on this site about being tracked by Google ads is yet another indication of how your data is collected and sold to the highest bidder. So honestly it being turned over to the NSA isn't really much different, it just sounds nasty because it's a spy agency and not a mass marketer.

Wait, are you saying I'm now going to start receiving PHONE CALLS from plus-size lingerie models instead of just seeing google ads? I better go charge my phone. jg

Here at BBWseekingTWC.com, we strive to keep your personal information confidential. Unfortunately, when the Feinsteins come a'knockin, we have little choice but to get on our knees and start rockin. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience. Long live the fuhrer!

Bitch ,bitch.bitch. Is it just me or is everyone extra bitchy lately? And I mean that in the nicest way