Cheap, common parts that are time consuming (or expensive) to replace?

I apparently hit a nerve with my latest article:

http://www.askmycarguys.com/why-do-i-have-an-expensive-car-repair-if-the-parts-are-cheap/

My friend just messaged me "I was just discussing this at lunch. Just to change the $24 worth of sparkplugs on a later model V6 Taurus requires the removal of the air filter box, upper intake manifold and fuel injection rails."

In my article I used a rear main seal as an example. Usually a $20 part, you have to yank the transmission to change it out. Even with a 2-piece seal, you still have to drop the oil pan to get swap it.

I was thinking of other common parts where you look at Rock Auto and say "hey, it is only $12, awesome!" Then you go to do the work and find that it is buried under half the engine accessories. Ford small block water pumps were like that. Or maybe the starter on a Q45. I swear heater cores are darn near the perfect example unless you are working on a 50 year old farm truck with zero options.

My father-in-law just bought a new key fob for his 2002 Eldorado. The part was $12 off Amazon, but it will cost him $28 at the dealer for programming.

I'm pretty sure the water pump on a Honda 3.5L V6 would fall into this same category. Cheap to buy, a bear to get to. What else is there?

rear main seal was my initial reaction (you already nailed it), but pretty much all oil shaft seals fall in this category.

trans input shaft seal, differential housing seals, even front engine crank seal.

heater cores suck, as noted. Similar strain is the electronic flapper doors in the ford truck HVACs that go click click click click.

^^Ditto

I remember my dad (not a DIYer in the least when it comes to auto maintenance) was SOO pissed when he found out that little $35 part for his Volvo 850 was going to be over $800 in labor to replace. He decided to dump the car instead.

Factory routing of ignition wires on a 2nd gen explorer with a V8. They run under part of the intake manifold and through some crazy stuff. Dealership quoted me $200 just for install. I was astounded. After having to cut the old ones and fish them out, and then install the new ones in circuitous, non-oem routing I understood why. I'd never pay $200 to have them installed, but I'd damn sure charge that much to install them for someone else.

Good article. Obviously just about anything inside the engine, gearbox, or differential applies here. Many components that cost just a few dollars but take a massive amount of labor to replace. Piston rings, valve stem seals, or anything oil pump related might be the worst.

Another thing that generates cries of "ripoff!" from your Average Joe is when related damaged parts are discovered in the process of a job. For example, my mom is convinced that the shop where I get laser alignments done is ripping me off, because every time I go there they "find" new things wrong with my car (I usually need to ask her to drop parts there since I can't reach this place without taking a day off work).

Since she used to be a RN, I said that's like saying that the hospital where you get MRIs done is ripping you off because every time you go there, they "find" new things wrong with you.

A while ago I ordered new coil packs & ignition leads, and bought a new set of spark plugs locally. Easy tune up right?

Changing the rear bank of plugs on my car involves removing the intake manifold. Which involves breaking that gasket and the throttle body gasket. I had to get my dad to buy me those on a trip to Europe because I couldn't find any place willing to ship €3 in parts.

This is why it's technically been a six month job and still isn't finished yet.

I usually describe time consuming repairs as a $5 part in a $500 place.

My favorites though are things like anything on a 944 Turbo (labor time is 40 hours for cylinder head gasket R&R) and anything on a twin turbo V8 Audi (22 hours to do the starter, for instance, although the starter is not cheap either)

heater cores... I need to replace the leaky one in my 1992 Camaro. But, do I really need heat or defrost the way I drive it?

Knurled wrote: I usually describe time consuming repairs as a $5 part in a $500 place.

That needs to be framed and hung at my friend's customer waiting room in his shop.

Knurled wrote: My favorites though are things like anything on a 944 Turbo (labor time is 40 hours for cylinder head gasket R&R) and anything on a twin turbo V8 Audi (22 hours to do the starter, for instance, although the starter is not cheap either)

"Hey Klaus, just because we lost the war doesn't me we can't win a few more battles...."

GameboyRMH wrote: Another thing that generates cries of "ripoff!" from your Average Joe is when related damaged parts are discovered in the process of a job. For example, my mom is convinced that the shop where I get laser alignments done is ripping me off, because every time I go there they "find" new things wrong with my car (I usually need to ask her to drop parts there since I can't reach this place without taking a day off work). Since she used to be a RN, I said that's like saying that the hospital where you get MRIs done is ripping you off because every time you go there, they "find" new things wrong with you.

Well, yes and no. The most convenient place for me to get alignments would always tell me that I needed new tie rod ends and ball joints before they could do an alignment - even when I had brand new tie rod ends and ball joints and just needed an alignment after having everything apart. Needless to say, I don't go there any more.

Starter on a Toyota Tundra V8 (between the cylinder heads)

Just about anything in a pt cruiser engine enclosure... By no means a bay or compartment its definitely and enclosure.

The intake manifold and the front grill need to come off for just about any work to be done. Everything needs extensions on long slim flex head ratchets and is still a tight fit...

Timing belts on a lot of European cars. While designed to be reasonably serviceable with the engine in the car, it still usually isn't easy.

Another one for me it was my E30. Everyone loves to say how easy they are to work one, but every time something broke on mine (which was often) it felt like half the damn engine bay had to come out to fix it.

Rod Bearings? Valve Seats?

jere wrote: Just about anything in a pt cruiser engine enclosure... By no means a bay or compartment its definitely and enclosure. The intake manifold and the front grill need to come off for just about any work to be done. Everything needs extensions on long slim flex head ratchets and is still a tight fit...

I've done quite a lot in there, including the plugs, the timing belt, and motor mounts, and I've never had to take the grill off. I mean, it's tight, but it's fine.

jere wrote: Just about anything in a pt cruiser engine enclosure... By no means a bay or compartment its definitely and enclosure. The intake manifold and the front grill need to come off for just about any work to be done. Everything needs extensions on long slim flex head ratchets and is still a tight fit...

On that note, a BMW Mini needs to be basically pulled in half for most jobs.

Turboeric wrote: The most convenient place for me to get alignments would always tell me that I needed new tie rod ends and ball joints before they could do an alignment - even when I had brand new tie rod ends and ball joints and just needed an alignment after having everything apart. Needless to say, I don't go there any more.

I think many places see a car >10 years old drive onto the lot and automatically see $$$. I remember having rebuilt the Poncho's entire front end - bushings, springs, shocks, ball joints, tie rod ends, idler arm. We roughly aligned it and I dropped it at the shop to get a real alignment done.

3 hours later, I get a call - "Yeah, we've got your car up on the rack, and it's gonna need new ball joints before we can even touch the alignment."

Uh, if it's up on the rack, why didn't you see the nice shiny chromate finish on those brand new ball joints? Assuming it's even on the rack at all, just put it down and park it. I'll pick it up at lunch time.

BMW somehow pulled off the "starter is difficult to change if under the intake manifold"... on an inline six. And I had mine die two or three startups after replacing the clutch (the starter comes out when you pull the transmission).

I once tried to change the spark plugs on a Nissan Pathfinder V6, only to find that you have to remove part of the intake manifold... and it's held on with Allen head bolts that were facing up and collected water. The heads were too rusty to turn.

I'll wager that most 4th-gen Camarobirds got traded in or sold before the back 2 spark plugs were ever replaced. And it's not like a transverse V6 where you can sometimes easily remove the cowl or rock the engine forward to get to the rear bank plugs.

Anything you do on an F-350 PowerStroke engine requires removal of the friggin' CAB. Beat that.

Hungary Bill wrote: Starter on a Toyota Tundra V8 (between the cylinder heads)

Same on the Olds Aurora / Northstar siblings

EvanR wrote: Anything you do on an F-350 PowerStroke engine requires removal of the friggin' CAB. Beat that.

Not on the 7.3, but yeah for the later engines.

And how about the engine-out clutch removal on an AWD Rav4? I could have restored my Trans Am in the time I put into that job.

any clutch?

See the fight my friend and I just had dropping a starter out of a old GM H body with a Buick V6, $40 starter, have to drop the y pipe and pass. exhaust manifold (or the y pipe and lower the trans down, if Chiltons is to be believed) to get it out.

Grtechguy wrote: any clutch?

Some are pretty easy, old RWD stuff is all pretty straightforward, ACVW is a fast job if you've done one before, there's some SAAB where you can supposedly do it all topside in like 2 hours. EDIT: Even a lot of FWD stuff is pretty fast and easy if you have a ball joint popper and a good assortment of extensions and swivels. I did the slave in my sunfire in like 3 hours, though I did have air and a lift for that one.

Grtechguy wrote: any clutch?

BrokenYugo wrote: there's some SAAB where you can supposedly do it all topside in like 2 hours.

with the right tools.... don't have the right tools... and it can be a nightmare