Chiropractors

I had an upper cervical mis-alignment that I saw a chiropractor for many years ago. The guy made a small alignment adjustment in my atlas (top spine bone that the skull rests on), and the difference was amazing.

I paid attention to what he did, and how it felt. Over the next while, I copied the adjustment on my own whenever I felt things slide out of place (mostly, I just pushed gently on the bone to line things up until my muscles were trained to hold everything there). Came back in for a check up and the guy was amazed at how well the alignment had held. He'd never seen one hold that well. I only had a couple more follow-ups, instead of continued care.

About a year back, I saw another chiropractor because he had some special deal on an evaluation. He told me I had a neck vertebrae were not curved correctly and could eventually turn into a problem. I would need to come in every other week for several months, and it was going to cost me a couple grand. So, I looked at what he said the problem was, and what it should look like, and adjusted my posture for free.

And, I've found that if you keep your core muscles really strong, you usually stay in alignment.

Yup. So, science, yes. Occasional professional inspections are nice, but I can take care of the vast majority of preventative maintenance on my own. When I need major body-work done, I'll farm that job out to someone with the specialized training and equipment.

I'm a fan of chiro. I do suggest you see one with a physical therapy or sports medicine background. Physical therapy has also worked wonders for me. Think of chiro as fixing your bone structure, where PT fixes muscle structure. They both feed off each other. If stretching is suggested by your chiro, DO IT, no matter how good you feel from the adjustment alone.

Muscles pull on both sides of your spine. In theory, they should be pulling on both sides of the spine equally. Let's say for example 5lbs of pressure on each side. Somewhere along the line, you messed up your back and through it a little out of alignment. No big deal, but now the muscles that use to pull equally, actually pull at different lengths. So the tighter side pulls at 6 lbs and the other side 4lbs. You grit your way through it, and eventually your muscles equalize again on both sides of your back, but your back is still out of alignment. Chiro straightens out your back, but the process causes one side to be tighter than the other for a bit. If you aren't good about the stretching, the imbalance in the muscles may cause the muscles to pull your back out of alignment. For some I think it's just easier to go back to the chiro to have them "straighten" you out on a regular basis than it is stretching on their own. Chiro with the correct stretching will put you way ahead....so make sure you do the stretches they suggest, no matter how stupid they might look. It will save you a lot of pain, trust me.

DILYSI Dave wrote:

Klayfish wrote: Working in the insurance industry, you can guess my take on them.

FWIW, I've gone to two different chiropractors who didn't take insurance. They set the price of a visit lower than most copays and said that they made more money doing that than dealing with insurance BS. I wish I could find a GP with the same mentality.

I used to do that Dave. See the doctor for $25. Not a nurse, not a PA, not a co-pay, the actual doctor for $25. Nobody came.

I second going to a PT or Chiro with a sports medicine emphasis. Colleen was going to PT for her back after the car wreck, and was just about to give up and get surgery, because after nearly a year it didn't seem to be working. She got a second opinion at a place that specialized in sports injuries and just from the check up they determined that the other PT place was doing all the wrong things and making it worse, and figured out her root cause of pain. She's 1,000 times better now, and didn't have to get a risky surgery.

In the business I'm in, I deal with chiro reports all day for auto accident injuries. I'll completely echo what Klayfish said.

Really, I'm sure I see far more of the less scrupulous chiros than the good ones, which clouds my viewpoint, but it seems that there are plenty of crooks in that industry, and far fewer qualified, competent professionals who will provide an appropriate service, not just 6 months of passive adjustments with no changes and no results...as long as the bill keeps getting paid.

My wife sees one about twice a year and swears by them. I guess I'm lucky. I have never seen the need for them. I guess my bones are straight even though my fat isn't.

I never believed in them until I got to the point where I could no longer tolerate the pain. I was referred to a chiro by my GP and the guy's a miracle worker. I've been going about 4 times per year for 10 years. He no longer takes my insurance, so I pay cash. I'm comfortable with him, so it's worth it.

I spent years critising claims made by the bad chiro types as part of my insurance defence practice but Debbie has truly been helped by her chiro treatment.

Chronic back issues here, and I've been through a year of PT and about 15 Chiros over the years for it.

Two if the Chiros I would see again right now if I could, and recommend to friends, the rest stunk. One of the good ones was old school, small clinic in a rural town with 800 people. That one got referrals from the Mayo clinic almost daily, despite the 6 hour drive. The other was a young guy while I was stationed in CT, and he was just plain skilled, caring, and practical in all the right proportions.

From my experience if the guy lays on hands and actually feels what he's doing, he's probably one of the better ones. If he's trying to use some spring loaded center punch thingy or weird machine, probably not going to pass muster. Of course I'm pretty thick, so it takes some strength to actually push parts of me in different directions.

I'm pretty convinced that stretching is 90% of my own issue. So convinced, in fact, that I bought my own traction roller table like they have at the Chiro to loosen you up. Figure if it lets me stretch the Chiro visits from weekly to quarterly it'll pay for itself in a year. And sometimes it's just nice to get that good stretch on.

I always considered them snake oil, so I asked my GP of 25 years for his opinion. He said, in his opinion, they are useful for a few things, but it's pretty limited. For me, I would have to be in pretty bad shape, with few other options to see a chiropractor.

One of my son's good friends wanted to be a doctor (or at least that's what his parent's wanted). His marks weren't great, and he was unable to get into school. His parents sent him, and his brother to Australia, where they had no problem getting into school. They're both going to be chiropractors.

DILYSI Dave wrote:

Duke wrote: My take on chiros is this: I know very few (if any) people who go to the chiro once.

Have you ever had sex? Have you had it more than once? We tend to repeat things that satisfy a need or result in pleasure.

Yeah, but I don't pay for sex on a weekly basis, nor am I quitting my current job to become a prostitute.

oldopelguy wrote: From my experience if the guy lays on hands and actually feels what he's doing, he's probably one of the better ones. If he's trying to use some spring loaded center punch thingy or weird machine, probably not going to pass muster. Of course I'm pretty thick, so it takes some strength to actually push parts of me in different directions.

OOG, in the business, those spring loaded center punch gizmos are referred to as "door stops." Except by the people selling them, of course. And, of course, stretching helps a lot. You should have mentioned your back when we were up there. Dr.Linda would have worked on you. At her school, they called me "The Rock" because I was so difficult to adjust, so she got lots of practice on hard to adjust patients.

Well, you guys have inspired me to give it a shot. Anything in particular I should look for in the way of licensing, etc.?

Our friend who works for a chiropractor isn't a "realign your chakras" whack-job or anything, and doesn't give me the impression that this dude is, but I'll dig a little deeper there.

I've been working out a lot, (right up until I wrecked my back good and proper this last time) and doing a good 10 minutes or so of stretching a day, focusing on the stretches that are supposed to help with the areas that cause me trouble. Weird thing is, my sciatica-type symtoms have gotten worse with the stretching, so I don't know if I went "too deep" at some point, or if something is just really berkeleyed and the stretching is making it worse.

Anyway, thanks for the opinions. I'll look for a non-whack-job and see if he/she can skraighten me out!

Make sure you tell the chiro about those sciatica symptoms. They may send you to get some images done before they try to crack you. Any numbness/tingling in the legs is usually a warning sign for them.

When I got those symptoms, my chiro instantly sent me for an mri and then to a neuro-surgeon for evaluation.

I go to a Chiro that I would certainly recommend.

She uses one of the "door stops", but this is so she can consistently apply the same impact each time, and only if there's muscle tension that she knows will immediately undo the adjustment.

I went from having tension headaches once or twice per week to none in the last six months.

I agree there's some quacks out there, but I trust chiropractors MUCH further than MDs. I can't stand most MDs, all they want to do is prescribe drugs.

+1 to the treat the cause, not the symptom.

I've used chiros at a few different times.

Once for a torn rotator cuff. Treated very well and successfully, mostly PT kind of stuff. I had no insurance and was cash pay and did not want surgery.

I went back again for a back problem that was solved and didn't need to go back until 4 years later, and I went to a different chiro as I had moved, with the same positive results, after I totally rearended someone. I went back again 8 years later for the same problem, at a different chiro as I had moved again, with positive results. I used to weightlift very seriously and have a slight but recurrable issue in my lower back that causes a very low, but constant, state of discomfort that goes away pretty much for good unless there is an event that brings it back, like a car wreck or bad posture while exercising.

I've never had a complaint about a chiropractor, but I wouldn't go to one if I were "sick". I also prefer not to engage the industrial medical complex every time I need a medic.

Chiropractic is definitely not science, though some of the techniques have been studied by scientists. See the wikipedia article, and pay attention to the stuff about Cochrane reviews since those are pretty much the gold standard.

Rather than launch into a full-on crazy man rant about chiropractic, I'll leave it at that. You can always email me for the rant.

FWIW, even a thousand people telling you it works on an internet forum is meaningless in this context. You'd find the same thing if you asked about acupuncture, homeopathy, prayer or vitamin c for the common cold (all unproven or disproved). The placebo effect is incredibly powerful mojo, especially with something like acupuncture or chiropractic where the interaction with the provider is so intense.

I didn't mention before, but there was a Nova episode, I think it ws Nova, where Alan Alda hosted and made a scientific inquiry (not of his own design, he was the "narrator") into chiropractic healthcare and found no scientific basis for any positive effect at all other than the endorphin/natural high/placebo effect.

poopshovel wrote: Well, you guys have inspired me to give it a shot. Anything in particular I should look for in the way of licensing, etc.?

The license is done on the national and state level. Council on Chiropractic Education is the "sanctioning body" and the National Board of Chiropractic Examiners are the "scrutineers".

With a few exceptions, your local chiropractor will have passed 4 national board tests and a state test (exceptions have to do with grandfathering). Additionally they may or may not have taken a National Board test in Physical Therapy. Long argument short, the PT sign-off fails to indicate chiropractic ability.

If you want to PM me your location, I can probably find you a local DC who will do a hands on adjustment of your spine. I have some pretty amazing contacts at my current school.

The quick reality is that word of mouth in the local area will let you find the technique you are seeking. One of the easiest ways to filter is to call them and ask their prices. Their answers will be enlightening.

Any other questions, feel free to post or pm. I am neither a neophyte nor an authority on this topic; but I can find the answer from a reasonable source to any of your questions in this area :)

There are a number of very valid therapies that modern medical "science" does not fully understand. As a parent of young children, I am amazed at how often the "wisdom" of doctors changes with the passing of time, often reversing itself in just a few years. Case in point would be the whole "back to sleep" mantra. Only about ten years ago, parents were admonished to put their babies to bed on their stomachs to prevent SIDS. Now we see a complete reversal.

From a historical perspective, we can laugh at the notion of bloodletting, and other medical procedures that were commonplace not all that long ago. It would be interesting to see how much of today's "medical science" is rendered laughable in say 50 year's time.

Too often the public is victimized by practitioners looking to maximize profits and claim that their methodology is more "accepted" than another. Be an active participant in your own healthcare. YMMV.

Both quackery and real science... depends on who you find.

I got rear-ended by a semi 10 years ago. I've had half a dozen chiros since then. Four were "meh" - felt better after seeing them but no big changes over all; one was a lawsuit waiting to happen (he'd have been a "meh" if he didn't insist on making comments about what I was potentially wearing under my clothes), and one walked on freaking water (he's in NC and I miss him so much!).

My spinal cord became pinched between two neck vertebrae a few years ago; I lost all motor function in my right hand and had excrutiating tingling pain. It looked like I would have to have surgery to fix it. I asked my chiro (the one that walks on water) if he'd be willing to look at my MRI. He was very leery of adjusting me because of the potential to cause more damage. I pointed out that I was heading to surgery either way, so do your best. A day after the first adjustment, the pain was greatly reduced and I had probably half of my hand function back. After the second adjustment, all pain was gone and the hand worked again.

So, yes, I'm a believer in a good chiropractor. The problem is that 98% of them are quacks.

I went to one with a back problem, and he insisted my problems were from a neck injury I'd had years before. I didn't fold, bend, or mutilate him and never went back. I'd say "Quack".

1988RedT2 wrote: There are a number of very valid therapies that modern medical "science" does not fully understand. As a parent of young children, I am amazed at how often the "wisdom" of doctors changes with the passing of time, often reversing itself in just a few years. Case in point would be the whole "back to sleep" mantra. Only about ten years ago, parents were admonished to put their babies to bed on their stomachs to prevent SIDS. Now we see a complete reversal.

My mother said that of her three children, born 2 and 3 years apart, she heard three different things for that. Mom is also a nurse who is "in the know". Whatever they were saying, she knows that if they'd been recommending on their back when my older brother was an infant, he'd probably have drowned. For whatever reason, he'd always puke more than any other infant.