Considering my first metalworking project

And it's a little off the beaten path.

James Trussart makes hollow bodied guitars out of steel.

http://www.jamestrussart.com/Newsite/GuitarStockArchive.htm

I want one of these in a bad way:

But, at $5k, it's not an option to buy one. However, I have a good amount of time on my hands, and I've been looking for a metalworking project to learn on. And I figure a not-so-great weld on a guitar is a whole lot less scary than the same weld on a frame. Even though I may cook on the Tele, I'm not in much bodily danger if the thing breaks.

I can likely find a template for a Tele that will play nice with an off-the-rack aftermarket neck. I'm comfortable with the electronics. I know a guy who's great with weirdo metal finishes (maybe even etching).

I'm most curious about the sides of the guitar, especially with all the compound curves. Recommendations on how to make that happen? Also, what gauge steel would you experienced guys use for something like this?

Words of encouragement are most welcome. The resounding sentiment on the Telecaster boards I frequent is, 'you're better off buying it.' Seriously, it's like the Miata.net of guitars over there. (Ha! Miata content!)

Hollow body steel tele?

Yessir. It can be done. It's over my head. That's never stopped me before.

Cool feature that I really can't figure out how to do cleanly is the perforated panels. They usually go on the back, but sometimes they're the top of the guitar, too.

Using what I assume will be fairly heavy steel, I'm willing to bet the perforations are a welcome weight reduction. Although even made of lead I can't imagine this guitar could weigh more than my old Les Paul Black Beauty, made of mahogany with three humbuckers.

Oops, I just realized I didn't include a link for any kind of context. That would help. Fixed above.

NOT A GUITAR GUY!! But I would think that this would not be that difficult to fab up with 18ga flat sheet. You plan on a wood neck? That could be less difficult to form. For the perforations, a dozen 3/16 drill bits and a drill press. With a sand bag and a mallet you could add shape to front and back. A MIG welder and an angle grinder could finish it up fine. A 4' square piece of steel should be enough, cuts easy enough with a good sabersaw. Sounds like a fun project!

Which Tele forum? Did you try Telemodders? Tell 'em Baxter said "Hi"

For the perforations, I'd get off shelf perforated stock, cut out a shape, and tack it in.

And find the hammerform article we ran awhile back. I bet that'd work nicely for rounding the sides.

cwh wrote: You plan on a wood neck?

Yeah, there are plenty of companies that make aftermarket replacement necks with specs that are supposed to work with stock neck pockets on Fenders and such. I'd build the body to that specification so I could have my choice of necks off the shelf. I don't want to get that into woodworking quite yet.

cwh wrote: A 4' square piece of steel should be enough, cuts easy enough with a good sabersaw. Sounds like a fun project!

I'd love recommendations on how to make the cuts for the top, back, and pickguard nice and clean, short of a plasma cutter, which I don't have access to. This is my first metalworking project, so type slowly and use small words.

I know I'd ideally TIG this up for a pretty weld, but is there any reason I couldn't MIG it if I plan on grinding the welds anyway?

The level of finish on these Trussart guitars is what I'm after, but I'm aware that he certainly uses all sorts of fancy equipment most of us can only dream about. I suppose I'm asking you guys with more experience: can I guy get close to that with the most basic of metalworking tools?

Tim Baxter wrote: Which Tele forum? Did you try Telemodders? Tell 'em Baxter said "Hi"

Telemodders, eh? That sounds more like my kinda place. I kept stumbling onto TDPRI in my searches for slightly esoteric gear, so I joined up to give it a shot. Those guys, for the most part, have drunk deep of the Fender Kool-Aid.

Ship me the piece of metal with the shape you want cut out on it and I'll plasma torch it out for you.

Short of that, the air "nibbler" tool they use for body work is amazing at cutting nice clean lines in thin steel with nice sharp curves. Even TSC has them for $60 now, so well worth the dough.

It looks to me like the top and sides are one piecs, curved over like a pot. For something like that you may want to make yourself a nice hardwood buck of the body and a matching wood panel with a cutout in it the body passes through. Reinforce the cutout panel with some metal around the edges to keep it from breaking apart. Set your slightly larger then the hole piece of metal in between the two, lots of force, and instant body. Without the outer panel and still using the buck you could certainly curve over the edges by hand with a hammer then add a side panel after the curve is in the metal.

Or, you could troll e-vil-bay for a hunk of scrap aluminum the size of the whole body. Cut out most of the center, curve as desired, add front and rear panels, and done.

I know a guy with a solid aluminum Strat. Heavy sucker.

oldopelguy wrote: Ship me the piece of metal with the shape you want cut out on it and I'll plasma torch it out for you. Short of that, the air "nibbler" tool they use for body work is amazing at cutting nice clean lines in thin steel with nice sharp curves. Even TSC has them for $60 now, so well worth the dough. It looks to me like the top and sides are one piecs, curved over like a pot. For something like that you may want to make yourself a nice hardwood buck of the body and a matching wood panel with a cutout in it the body passes through. Reinforce the cutout panel with some metal around the edges to keep it from breaking apart. Set your slightly larger then the hole piece of metal in between the two, lots of force, and instant body. Without the outer panel and still using the buck you could certainly curve over the edges by hand with a hammer then add a side panel after the curve is in the metal.

I may very well take you up on that first offer. Thanks for the recommendation on nibblers - I've never worked with those.

Your idea of using a buck is a really intriguing one that hadn't occurred to me. In reality, I could buy a cheap wooden no-name body of the proper dimensions off of fleaBay, use that as a buck for the top and back, then use the buck to make the side piece to bridge it together. Nice. (Am I getting your drift? Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Hell, I could spray some finish on the buck body then re-sell it as a 'relic' (all the rage now) when I'm done.

The body will also need a rather solid hunk of metal in two places: at the neck pocket and at the bridge. Both are places under a good amount of stress from the strings. I suppose I could get the body done and use a neck for mockup, then tack the bridge under the top and the pocket reinforcement in the appropriate body cavity. Does that make sense?

What gauge steel would you recommend for (fairly) easy hammering but a good measure of durability once the thing's built? Do you have a source for cheapo metal hammers?

I like this direction. It will get me started in short order, and it integrates my desire for a new guitar with my love of pounding the living crap out of stuff.

remember:

start big, then work to make it small.

metal is like play-doh.

i also do not know much about electric guitars, but will the body really influence the sound the way it does with an acoustic? i'm guessing not, but just checking.

Oh damn I want one of those bodies...

I've been playing with the idea of building a new guitar, but wow this would be cool.

bluej wrote: i also do not know much about electric guitars, but will the body really influence the sound the way it does with an acoustic? i'm guessing not, but just checking.

There are several competing schools of thought on this debate. I would argue that, foremost, tone is in the players' hands and the pickups. The wood of the neck and the body are close. Just by comparison of a wood acoustic and a steel bodied non-resonator, I'd guess the sound of a fully hollow steel Tele would be a little darker and a little more jangly and, you know, hollow, at the same time. I think the perforated panels would mitigate a lot of the tonal characteristics of the body, actually, and make it mostly an all-pickups show.

Don't tell the luthiers I said that.

rebelgtp wrote: I've been playing with the idea of building a new guitar, but wow this would be cool.

GRM Guitar Challenge Build Off! What, $209? That would certainly be a challenge.

alex wrote: GRM Guitar Challenge Build Off! What, $209? That would certainly be a challenge.

Yeah that might be a bit on the tough side lol.

Ain't no hill for high steppers like us, right? C'mon...

Actually if I was back in Portland I'm sure I could scrounge parts easy enough to make it under that budget but out where I'm at it would be difficult.

Hey, that's why Al Gore invented the internet, man.

Nah I could see Gore lookin for accordion parts though lol.

Actually I do have a few sources out here for scrounging parts so it maybe something I start working on. However the Cutty is going to get worked on first

Hmmm actually I just thought of a way to easily build a guitar for well under the $209 limit.

An electric cigar box

would require one of the little smokey amps just for kicks lol

Short of that, the air "nibbler" tool they use for body work is amazing at cutting nice clean lines in thin steel with nice sharp curves.

+1. This is, hands down, my favorite air tool. Just be sure to go over the garage floor with a magnet when you're done. Not only will the little 1/4 'moon' bits find a way to get lodged into your feet, they'll also get stuck in your shoes and destroy the next set of hardwood floors you walk on. HF sells a $40 model that I've been pleased with.

On the guitar side, if the edges don't need to be SUPER curvey, why not just cut a couple of long 1 1/4" wide strips to connect the front & back, then lightly grind down the sharp edges? Who the berkeley cares if you burn a whole through it, right?

Also, I'm wondering if there's some sort of support for the bridge. It seems as though the tension of the strings could actually pull the metal "up" if there's no solid support from the neck back (does that make any sense?)

I'd be really excited about the finish part. There are a lot of companies that will print art on metal relatively cheap nowadays, though personally, I think I'd just leave it outside and the body rust, then spray clear when I was happy with the amount of patina.

Here's one of many that does print on metal:

http://www.poemsart.com/Home/tabid/37/Default.aspx#

poopshovel wrote:

Short of that, the air "nibbler" tool they use for body work is amazing at cutting nice clean lines in thin steel with nice sharp curves.

+1. This is, hands down, my favorite air tool. Just be sure to go over the garage floor with a magnet when you're done. Not only will the little 1/4 'moon' bits find a way to get lodged into your feet, they'll also get stuck in your shoes and destroy the next set of hardwood floors you walk on. HF sells a $40 model that I've been pleased with.

Cool. I'll look into that.

poopshovel wrote: On the guitar side, if the edges don't need to be SUPER curvey, why not just cut a couple of long 1 1/4" wide strips to connect the front & back, then lightly grind down the sharp edges? Who the berkeley cares if you burn a whole through it, right?

This is what I was thinking before OOG proposed hammering the top and back from a buck, then mating them together. May as well try it one way and use the other as a backup plan, eh?

poopshovel wrote: Also, I'm wondering if there's some sort of support for the bridge. It seems as though the tension of the strings could actually pull the metal "up" if there's no solid support from the neck back (does that make any sense?)

It does make sense, and I've thought about that, too. One of two solutions could be implemented. The easiest would be to reinforce the underside of the top where the bridge mounts, likely with something double- to triple- thickness of the top, in order to spread out the load across the top. Alternatively (and this is what Trussart does), I could run a 'string through' bridge, where the strings enter through the back of the guitar into ferrules that hold the ball ends in place, through a solid block that braces the back to the underside of the top, then exit the top where they're pulled taut across the bridge and up the next. That would require a little more precision mating of the top and back, but it's certainly achievable. And, one could argue it would contribute to resonance and other tonal qualities.

poopshovel wrote: I'd be really excited about the finish part. There are a lot of companies that will print art on metal relatively cheap nowadays, though personally, I think I'd just leave it outside and the body rust, then spray clear when I was happy with the amount of patina.

I agree, and I am. Although I like the examples above, I've like it to really speak as 'metal' when viewed from a fair distance. I'm thinking of leaving the body to rust to a certain extent, and using the pickguard (I'll be using the shape above) for color and/or pattern. Rest assured, rust will be involved.

poopshovel wrote: Here's one of many that does print on metal: http://www.poemsart.com/Home/tabid/37/Default.aspx#

Nice. Thanks for the link.

Now, does anybody have a ballpark suggestion for steel thickness to use?

rebelgtp wrote: Hmmm actually I just thought of a way to easily build a guitar for well under the $209 limit. An electric cigar box would require one of the little smokey amps just for kicks lol

Dude, I was just looking at plans for those last night. Might be something to keep me busy.

I have one of those Smokey amps (Marlboro reds), and it's thoroughly awesome. In fact, I recorded two solos on the upcoming record through it as kind of a lark, and I'm really pleased with the way it sounded. I've tried to use it to drive other amps with limited success. More experimentation is required.

EDIT: Wait, are you saying the $209 GRM Guitar Challenge is on? If so, I'd say an official announcement is in order.

I think it might be. Granted I havn't played in years (screwed up my wrists so its painful to play). Damn now that I think about it its been 10 years since I last played .

However I know several guys local that I'm sure I could talk into running it through its paces once finished.

When would we be setting the finish date for? Actually I think I have an old cigar box or two laying around here from my Grandpas stuff. Heck I might even take a shot at making my own pickup.