Cracked: The Occupy Wallstreet Generation

Snowdoggie wrote: The one thing that I have that you and your hater friends don't have is compassion.

Oh look, I'm a compassionless hater!

Snowdoggie wrote: To be clear, the posts here that shocked me with the amount of hatred involved were not yours, nor were they in this thread

No wait, maybe I'm not!

Snowdoggie wrote: Your philosophy seems rather hateful to me and I stand by that observation.

Oh look, I'm a hater again!

Good thing too, I was beginning to get an identity complex wondering who I was!

Sure glad there is no longer any confusion!!

I hear there are mining jobs in Austrialia paying $200,000. a year. Sombody might break a nail.

scardeal wrote: Stepping back, I think that here's my real issue with it: I feel like I went through exactly the same thing ten years ago, and I thrived despite the conditions. I also learned a lot about life in that time too. So, I'm really wondering why the heck they're complaining so vocally. It doesn't look that bad from here.

Ten years ago I was 15, I can tell you first hand what it was. Bout ten, fifteen years ago was the beginning of the yuppie suburban "special little snowflake, you can do no wrong, everyone gets a trophy" school of child rearing. The children raised under this are now adults.

You get people raised to believe nothing is their fault and life is supposed to be fair and this is what happens. They hit reality, they can't accept it, they look for someone to blame, E36 M3 goes sour.

The chalkie scourge yet again.

You've got schools getting rid of red ink for corrections because it's deemed too aggressive or stressful and people wonder where E36 M3 like this starts.

In reply to Grizz:

The "everyone wins" crap started when I was in school and I was born in 1978.

I remember getting a "participant" ribbon when I was 7 years old at sports day and going WTH? did I win?

Never understood why you got a ribbon for just showing up.

Forget the red ink, a school in Toronto just banned "hard balls" (soccer balls, footballs, baseballs and tennis balls) because some goof thinks their kid got a concussion from a soccer ball.

Shawn

Trans_Maro wrote: In reply to Grizz: The "everyone wins" crap started when I was in school and I was born in 1978. I remember getting a "participant" ribbon when I was 7 years old at sports day and going WTH? did I win? Never understood why you got a ribbon for just showing up. Forget the red ink, a school in Toronto just banned "hard balls" (soccer balls, footballs, baseballs and tennis balls) because some goof thinks their kid got a concussion from a soccer ball. Shawn

I've been hit in the face with a basketball, that does hurt like crazy, but I don't know about concussions.

Oh gawd, field day, what a pain in the ass that was. Sit outside for a few hours but you don't get to actually do anything fun.

SVreX wrote: I was beginning to get an identity complex wondering who I was! Sure glad there is no longer any confusion!!

I can understand the crisis, since your also a dirty hippie

SVreX wrote: ...I have been an active member of N.O.W., and supported the Equal Rights Amendment. I've been shot at for defending the environment, and done sit-ins in front of bulldozers waiting to clear eco-habitats. I've been a long time subscriber to Mother Earth News, installed solar panels, worked with the Peace Corps, and lived in a third world village. I have been a supporter of the pro-choice movement, and have utilized the services of Planned Parenthood. Oh, and I drink free-trade coffee.

I had some sympathy for thes kids when they started but I'm ready for the dogs and water cannons now. The only thing that they've accopmplished was seriously inconveniance the middle and lower class people that still have jobs with their daily marches and such. now today they are planning several rallies and they want to shut down the subway system during the evening rush. What point is that supposed to make? I'm sure the 1% that they are "at war" will be greatly troubled by this as they fly home in there helicopters. At this point it's a matter before some of these kids get the ass kicking they need by an angry mob trying to get to or from work.

That's "compasionless dirty hater hippie" to you!

Grizz wrote: Ten years ago I was 15, I can tell you first hand what it was. Bout ten, fifteen years ago was the beginning of the yuppie suburban "special little snowflake, you can do no wrong, everyone gets a trophy" school of child rearing. The children raised under this are now adults. You get people raised to believe nothing is their fault and life is supposed to be fair and this is what happens. They hit reality, they can't accept it, they look for someone to blame, E36 M3 goes sour.

While I agree with the sentiment that trophies for everyone is just plan stupid, I am not prepared to write off an entire generation.

Regardless of what the OWS people think, they are still a very small (though vocal) minority. Sometime not too far from now, they are gonna fade away. Its a flash in the pan.

I see a lot of greatness in today's young people.

Although I don't think it is a result of all the worthless trophies they got!

I think what Wally was expressing above (about water cannons for the OWS) is a direct result of their inability to define their message. We all will protect their right to voice their opinions. OK, you are unhappy. Tell me more. But they have turned it into an empty and meaningless b1tch session, and the people listening are starting to not want to listen anymore. It's not that they don't care, it's that nobody want to listen to meaningless griping forever.

This thread has evidenced some of the same.

The OWS is starting to reap some of what they are sowing- nothing.

93EXCivic wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to Bobzilla: Yeah, taxes are really low, lower than they've been in our lifetimes. Spending is really high, higher than it has ever been. Take your pick on what to jump on first. I think everything should be on the table. Of course, this in a perfect world. In the real world, if we raise taxes, Congress will likely find a way to spend the new revenues and then some more.

Be careful about raising taxes. As I mentioned earlier if you look at our corporate tax rates, they are much higher then many of the countries we are competing against. It is no wonder business is leaving our shores.

Shhhhh.... don't bring truth or facts into this.

It isn't quite as simple as looking at tax rates.

In reply to Otto Maddox:

Why should you relate tax rates to GDP? It makes no sense.

tuna55 wrote: Why should you relate tax rates to GDP? It makes no sense.

I'm guessing it's a case of "You pay more to set up shop here, but you'll also earn a bunch more money if you do."

In reply to tuna55:

GDP is what we produce here. The taxes are what our country charges for stuff to be produced here.

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to tuna55: GDP is what we produce here. The taxes are what our country charges for stuff to be produced here.

eh - don't see it making sense still. if we conquered Canada and Mexico tomorrow our GDP would go up, should our tax rates too?

tuna55 wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to tuna55: GDP is what we produce here. The taxes are what our country charges for stuff to be produced here.

eh - don't see it making sense still. if we conquered Canada and Mexico tomorrow our GDP would go up, should our tax rates too?

Tell me more about this plan to annex our neighbors?

Osterkraut wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to tuna55: GDP is what we produce here. The taxes are what our country charges for stuff to be produced here.

eh - don't see it making sense still. if we conquered Canada and Mexico tomorrow our GDP would go up, should our tax rates too?

Tell me more about this plan to annex our neighbors?

Seems like a good way to get the unemployment numbers down.

Trans_Maro wrote: In reply to Grizz: The "everyone wins" crap started when I was in school and I was born in 1978. I remember getting a "participant" ribbon when I was 7 years old at sports day and going WTH? did I win? Never understood why you got a ribbon for just showing up. Forget the red ink, a school in Toronto just banned "hard balls" (soccer balls, footballs, baseballs and tennis balls) because some goof thinks their kid got a concussion from a soccer ball. Shawn

I was born in 1982, and never dealt with any of the "participation award" bull crap.

Then again I'm in OK. Folks is a bit different in these parts.

tuna55 wrote: eh - don't see it making sense still. if we conquered Canada and Mexico tomorrow our GDP would go up, should our tax rates too?

In theory, the percentage of tax as portion of GDP should stay constant roughly constant.

The above graph probably does not take into account deductions, shelters, and loopholes. Just because your tax rate is a particular number, does not mean that you actually pay that much when all is said and done.

That does not mean that our effective corporate taxes are higher or lower than other countries on that graph. It means that the graph is too simplistic to be meaningful. "Lies. Damned lies. And Statistics."

Bobzilla wrote:

93EXCivic wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to Bobzilla: Yeah, taxes are really low, lower than they've been in our lifetimes. Spending is really high, higher than it has ever been. Take your pick on what to jump on first. I think everything should be on the table. Of course, this in a perfect world. In the real world, if we raise taxes, Congress will likely find a way to spend the new revenues and then some more.

Be careful about raising taxes. As I mentioned earlier if you look at our corporate tax rates, they are much higher then many of the countries we are competing against. It is no wonder business is leaving our shores.

Shhhhh.... don't bring truth or facts into this.

Also doesn't stop the corporations from hiring teams of lawyers and accountants to exploit every loophole to avoid said taxes.

Also see: GE. Who didn't pay ANY taxes last year, despite posting huge profits.

Of course, i as well, blame this on the fact that the taxes are too high. If they weren't so high, we wouldn't have so many companies going overseas, and they wouldn't "need" all the lawyers and accountants.

Don't forget that GE didn't pay taxes THIS year because of the huge losses it took the year before. Taxes are always 12months+ behind.

Bobzilla wrote: Don't forget that GE didn't pay taxes THIS year because of the huge losses it took the year before. Taxes are always 12months+ behind.

Company posted a profit.

Salanis wrote:

tuna55 wrote: eh - don't see it making sense still. if we conquered Canada and Mexico tomorrow our GDP would go up, should our tax rates too?

In theory, the percentage of tax as portion of GDP should stay constant roughly constant. The above graph probably does not take into account deductions, shelters, and loopholes. Just because your tax rate is a particular number, does not mean that you actually pay that much when all is said and done. That does not mean that our effective corporate taxes are higher or lower than other countries on that graph. It means that the graph is too simplistic to be meaningful. "Lies. Damned lies. And Statistics."

I wrote a reply, but frankly Salanis covered it better.

In reply to Bobzilla:

Could be years of difference due to carrybacks and carryforwards. Plus, tax is calculated on taxable income which is often far different than the income reported in SEC filings.

Otto Maddox wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to tuna55: GDP is what we produce here. The taxes are what our country charges for stuff to be produced here.

eh - don't see it making sense still. if we conquered Canada and Mexico tomorrow our GDP would go up, should our tax rates too?

We would include their production in our GDP and they would be subject to taxation by us. This is what makes the table useful - you see the tax rate in actuality rather than in theory. Presumably the overall rate would remain about the same.

No. Tax revenue would go up. Tax rates would not have to.

This shows tax rate in actuality, but not taxes owed/paid in actuality. Your personal income is taxed at a certain rate. Chances are, that what you actually are expected to pay is lower because you get deductions for having kids, owning a home, giving to local charities, etc.

What would actually be meaningful would be a graph of "Corporate Taxes Paid as Percentage of Earnings" and/or "Corporate Taxes Paid as Percentage of Profits". Either of those would be really difficult to calculate. "Corporate Taxes Paid as Percentage of GDP" (as was posted above) is actually about as close as you could reasonably get. It would need to be compared against "Corporate Earnings as Percent of GDP" to really give the full picture.

In short: None of these graphs have any useful information when taken on their own.

Salanis wrote: That does not mean that our effective corporate taxes are higher or lower than other countries on that graph. It means that the graph is too simplistic to be meaningful. "Lies. Damned lies. And Statistics."

True.

That graph shows Italy with the seventh highest tax rate and the third highest GDP. Yet, Italy is teetering on a financial brink and threatening to take the Euro Zone with it. Even Iceland and Ireland fare "better" on that chart than does the US.

A chart with simple numbers highlighted by pretty colors, but that's about it.

In reply to oldsaw:

I think you are misreading the chart. If you feel low effective tax rates stimulate corporate growth, it is best to be at the bottom the chart. Your point about Italy would confirm this.

The second chart isn't GDP, but combined taxes as compared to GDP.