Knurled. said:In reply to Wally :
You can tell that's a really old car because the headers are pointed at the tire instead of up. The old thinking was to use the exhaust to blow the tires clean. Then someone pointed them up, and the increased downforce got them enough extra traction that very shortly everyone else pointed theirs up.
And now, they are running different angled headers to balance downforce against the extra thrust created by leaning them back. It's nuts.
You said you don't know anything about drag racing... so you need to go to a dragstrip and see what is going on. Don't depend on NHRA, most small dragstrips are referred to as "outlaw", but some are NHRA affiliated and run some customized version of the NHRA bracket racing series. You can run just about anything in bracket racing; cars, bikes, snowmobiles, all depends on the track owner's rules. I can almost guarantee that if you go to a track on a day that they are running their bracket program you will see a number of rear engine dragsters. At these sorts of tracks, safety rules and inspections are generally loose, and owner/driver certified. Some outlaw tracks are downright scary. Virtually all the bracket racing east of the Mississippi is 1/8th mile.
A rear engined dragster (RED) is very, very common in bracket racing and there are also specific NHRA classes that they run in. They are simple, light, easy to drive and you will find them with any number of different engine and transmission combinations. They can be quite inexpensive, or very expensive depending on who built it and with what options. In NHRA class racing there is a class called Super Comp which is almost exculsively RED, with the vast majority having some variation of a big block Chevy engine and a powerglide transmission. The goal of the class is to run as close to a 8.90 1/4 mile ET as possible, without going quicker. They use a timed throttle stop to achieve that goal. Cut a 0.000 light and run dead on 8.90 ET and you win! Good luck with that. There is a faster class of REDs called Top Dragster also, but they are generally a lot more expensive, faster and run in a handicapped fashion with a dial-in.
I ran a RED in bracket racing all around the NC/SC area back in the late 90's, early 2000's. Mine was a 225" wheelbase, hard-tail built by RaceTech out of Burlington NC. I had a Ford 460 with a powerglide running alcohol and would run 5.10's in the 1/8th. Never ran it on a 1/4 mile track.
Does this mean your Challenge car is delayed again?
Knurled. said:In reply to Wally :
You can tell that's a really old car because the headers are pointed at the tire instead of up. The old thinking was to use the exhaust to blow the tires clean. Then someone pointed them up, and the increased downforce got them enough extra traction that very shortly everyone else pointed theirs up.
I've heard this before, but the weird thing is the intakes aren't pointed down...
In reply to ProDarwin :
There's a lot more force coming from the exhaust than goes into the intake.
It did seem to take a while for non superchargd cars to run airboxes pointed forward. Some people still feel that there isn't much, if any, advantage to it. The first 330 feet is the most important, anyway.
In reply to stukndapast :
That sounds like what I want to do. Just run and have a little fun. As cheaply with as little hassle as possible.
I'm not going to set records or win. Just make a few passes, maybe try something else.
In reply to Streetwiseguy :
What happened to the rest of page 1. ? It says it's a bad request. I can't read it because it's too big?
There are also vintage classes in which that car will be legal to run as is. They will have less stringent rules and some really weird ones.
Most all of the classes you would fit in will be Bracket racing (ET based) not heads up racing. The Pro class has very simple rules mostly no electronics, Super Pro is next up with delay boxes and electronic throttle stops. I think the car would be too fast for Sportsman.
If you don't want to points race there are lots of other local classes Our track has a Dragster/Roadster class and a Vintage dragster class and I think there are some limited faster classes Nostalgia. These classes have ET limits well below 7.50 and a lot of the cars don't make a full pass, I think they are just there for the burnout and some fun.
Putting a Jag motor in it would be a novel idea however not at all practical and not fast, but then if your going to go slow you need to be very flashy and LOUD as possible.
Putting a big or small block Chevy in it would be the easiest as parts can be readily had and would have the best re-sale value. Tires are easy you can pick up some half used take-offs from a front runner who wants fresh tires.
A small block on E85 will run 9's and maybe 8's and not be stressed (will run an entire season without breaking) and be a whole lot of fun.
On the other hand a Jag would be a crowd pleaser, (like the picture) it would need lots of chrome and wild paint, but much more expensive to install and make it go reasonably fast. And be very difficult to sell. I wonder what a pair of eBay turbos would do for a Jag? I expect it would make the rods leave the motor. I'd hate to see you spend a lot of hours making parts and then only get one pass out of it. Jag motors aren't exactly plentiful.
How it looks will have a large impact on how it is accepted by the track, if it looks like it was cobbled together tech is going to be all over it. If it is bright and shinny and looks like the other cars it will get a lot less scrutiny.
As far as trailers go-do you have a 16' trailer? If so could you push some of the car onto the tongue?
A Dragster doesn't need much of a trailer (think dune buggy trailer), but a dry enclosed trailer is best to protect it and for security.
If a trailer is a big issue I'd say stop now and pass on the deal, as that is kind of minor (but necessary) expense compared to the venture you are proposing.
If it won't fit in your garage you really have to have a trailer and with enough room to work on it inside the trailer.
bentwrench said:There are also vintage classes in which that car will be legal to run as is. They will have less stringent rules and some really weird ones.
Most all of the classes you would fit in will be Bracket racing (ET based) not heads up racing. The Pro class has very simple rules mostly no electronics, Super Pro is next up with delay boxes and electronic throttle stops. I think the car would be too fast for Sportsman.
If you don't want to points race there are lots of other local classes Our track has a Dragster/Roadster class and a Vintage dragster class and I think there are some limited faster classes.
Putting a Jag motor in it would be a novel idea however not at all practical and not fast (slow) but then if your going to go slow you need to be very flashy and LOUD as possible.
Putting a big or small block Chevy in it would be the easiest as parts can be readily had and would have the best re-sale value. Tires are easy you can pick up some half used take-offs from a front runner who wants fresh tires.
An injected small block on E85 will run 9's and maybe 8's and not be stressed (will run an entire season without breaking) and be a whole lot of fun.
On the other hand a Jag would be a crown pleaser but much more expensive to install and make it go reasonably fast.
A Jag V12 motor and transmission mission would be my cheapest option. Free! While I'm down to Three, they are all good. Clean polish and probably run them forever.
If I want to use my new ( but decades old ) supercharger I'll have to pull one apart and open up the ring end gap. But I've got a few gasket sets.
My local cam grinder is a lot cheaper than Isky or Crower and should be able to give me whatever profile I settle on. ( stock lift is only .375 ) while the stock valve springs don't float until 8300 rpm. ( one of the advantages of not having pushrods and rocker arms)
If instead of buying a Holley Dominator I used the SU carbs ( they both flow 1200cfm) everything is Brass so I can use E85. It will look weird running 3 side draft carbs but probably no weirder than a Jag V12
What would used tires cost? I think they are 15/16/ 33's. I'd probably get new front tires too.
In reply to bentwrench :
A 20 foot long trailer shouldn't be that hard to come by. If you had one wouldn't you be willing to lend it for a pass or two?
worst comes to worst I can weld up a cheap open trailer. It can't weigh too much. 1500 pounds or less? What does a dragster weigh?
What is the Jag transmission? Stick shift dragsters are unicorns, nearly every dragster either has a two speed powerglide with a converter or a speciality automatic. I cannot think of any dragster I have seen in a very long time with a clutch, and even then it is a slider. A big challenge with a rear engine dragster that you have limited space between the seat and the rear axle. A long engine like a V12 with a car type transmission is likely to be WAY to long to fit. The powerglides that use can be had with a shorty output shaft and rear support that makes them very compact. Hard tail dragsters don't use u-joints, there is a slipper coupling straight from the trans output shaft to the pinion. I would think the Jag setup would be better suited to a front engine dragster where you have more length to play with although you better have some floor pan armor if you value your manhood.
In reply to stukndapast :
It's a GM turbo 400 in a Jaguar case. I measured the engine bay and with the harmonic balancer off and no water pump it will fit.
I have this RED only because it fell into my lap. Monday mid day I'm going to go get it. Strap the back into my pickup and let the front end follow me home. It's gotta get out of there because the dumpster for the rest of the contents of the house is coming Tuesday morning.
It's got to be pretty light. it's hanging from the rafters of the garage and they are just 2x4's same as every garage roof.
In reply to stukndapast :
The TA dragster my then-employer raced about 15 years ago had a clutch and a two speed Lenco.
Blew my mind that he was shifting on a 5.5 second run.
In reply to frenchyd :
They are extremely light. We would maneuver the TA car in tight areas by lifting the front by hand and just putting it where we wanted it. Very easy with no engine.
In reply to Knurled. :
That's what I'm counting on for Monday toss the back end in my pick up, strap it in place ( including the steering ) and tow it home riding on its own front wheels.
Perhaps I missed it, but is it front or rear engine?
Track rental day is the way to go. Just ask the local strip who has the track rented out for them & buddies. Call person who rented track & sign up. My buddy who owned the local chassis/ fabrication shop used to run track rental days when I lived up north. Was cheap and I'd get 20+ passes a day. Much better than showing up for "test & tune" where you're lucky to get 3 passes.
In reply to NOT A TA :
It's a Rear engine. 3 passes sounds like enough for me. Remember I'm nearing 72
The shorty transmission has me thinking. What if by using the longer Turbo 400 trans mission I upset the balance with the engine weight further forward?
the V12 even though it's all aluminum is plenty heavy. 700 + pounds.
In reply to frenchyd :
I would not do that. The front end is not engineered for bumps like a road has. When I say they are big karts, that is not much of an exaggeration. Except karts are probably more sturdy. They're built to handle pool table smooth asphalt and concrete, and are pretty unloaded during a drag run besides. If they were any tougher, then they'd be too heavy!
Use any length trailer, and jack the nose of the car up high so it’s over the bed of your truck.
Like the mast for a sailboat.
In reply to SVreX :
That's a good idea. Maybe I can put the front over the cab, lay a platform for it to sit on so it's not bent. Take the wheels off and anything else to remove front end weight.
In reply to Stampie : Does this mean your Challenge car is delayed again?
i was thinking this would be the challenge car
Knurled. said:In reply to frenchyd :
I would not do that. The front end is not engineered for bumps like a road has. When I say they are big karts, that is not much of an exaggeration. Except karts are probably more sturdy. They're built to handle pool table smooth asphalt and concrete, and are pretty unloaded during a drag run besides. If they were any tougher, then they'd be too heavy!
He's right, they aren't suspended and they actually rely on the flexing of the chassis to provide a modicum of suspension, including weight transfer on launch. I remember taking my rail to RaceTech because one of the frame crossmembers had cracked and he insisted on examining the car in the trailer as it had been towed to the shop. You have to tie them down in the trailer, supporting the front section so that it doesn't flex with the motion of the trailer otherwise the constant motion can crack the frame. He wanted to see that it was being transported properly before he fixed it. They even make air pillows designed specifically for supporting the chassis while being transported. Chassis Air bag.
I won't pretend to know the politics of your family, but I wouldn't dream of charging my father in law a "finder's fee!"
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