ronholm said:I am not sure what to think of all the accusations today. With the Weinstein stuff it seems like plenty of those overpaid actress's consented to certain things in exchange for money, lots and lots of money.
With one Senatorial race it seems one right after another the women are being proven liars with motives..
1. Just cause they were paid lots of money to act in a film doesn't make it not sexual harassment or assault.
2. Edit: Nevermind probably political.
"You guys aren't going to make me say " 
OY! This was a mistake" again are you?
Yes. Yes they will.
Appleseed said:Yes. Yes they will.
Especially the old guard types
When I was right out of highschool I worked a catering job that was like a college party. We had so much fun. Young, old, gay, straight, male or female, if you made one sexual joke, it was open season. What was funny is that we occasionally had some folks work with us who were either very religious or we just didn't know well enough to make those comments around, but as soon as they left it was back to mock humping, "that's what she said", and other various sexual innuendos. We had fun with it, but nobody was getting groped, either, and any creepy/rapey comments were shot down pretty quick. In the 6 years that I worked there, it didn't cause any problems.
Today, we would have all gotten fired. There was such a thin line that we all knew about, but that wouldn't be tolerated in todays workplace.
Outside of that job all my other positions have been strictly professional places. That's largely because I don't work with a bunch of a woman who are the same age as me, likewise neither are any of the men. I'm sure if I did it would be a bit trickier.
All this news and discussion has made me really think about my actions in the past. I've had partners and hookups that liked things slow, and hookups where things went far past what was comfortable in hindsight, but incredibly fun at the time. If you've ever experienced the typical college dating/party scene, you probably had plenty of experiences where you said "that was soooo dumb" but at the time you were just living the moment.
I think what make it so challenging in so many of these high profile situations is that the line between workplace and personal life never really existed. These men and women spent so much time together in the office and outside of it that some of these guys legit thought these women wanted them and had incredibly strange or creepy ways of propositioning them. Think about how many people in media have married co-workers, think about how many people outside of media, in regular industries have consenting sexual relations with co-workers.
It will certainly change the culture and the workplace landscape, hopefully for the better.
So I know a male high school teacher. He tells a story about how his mindset has been impacted regarding behavior that could be seen as inappropriate.
A couple of years ago, he was standing in the hallway during a passing period . This is customary to add some level of authority. He's more or less there to make sure things don't get too out of control while a bunch of teenagers mill about. A female student near him stumbled. He saw this, and his instinct was to reach out and try to stop her from falling. He was close enough that he probably would have been successful in keeping her upright. As he began to reach out, he thought that he might accidentally touch her inappropriately while trying to help, so he stopped himself and let her fall.
I'm not sure if this specific example shows progress or not (I'd be curious to know if the female student would've wanted him to try and prevent her fall or not), but it's definitely showing that men in authority positions are beginning to consider the consequences of their actions and how they could be perceived and that hasn't always been the case. I believe this to be a good thing for all. But I also hope that consequences for these acts fit the acts, and aren't doled out quickly, simply because an accusation was leveled. To me, I'd like to see these instances treated like accusations against law enforcement. Put the accused individual on probation or leave or something while the investigation is ongoing, sort out the facts, and determine how to proceed from there.
^Let's please not compare a catering company filled college kids to a professional/corporate environment.
In reply to STM317 :
My wife was a teacher (just "retired" to stay at home with our children) and she has told me that administrators have stated that male teachers at the HS complain about the dress code enforcement (or lack thereof) but will never actually write a female student up because they don't want to be seen as looking at underage girls.
Let's all please look at this recent news as a giant leap in the right direction, because sexual assault and harassment are still FAR behind other types of crimes in the way our society TRUSTS the victims.
1. If your car is broken into and you call the cops, they DON'T say "Well, you probably shouldn't have left such an attractive looking Porsche outside by itself"
2. If you accuse your employer of lying to the IRS or accuse someone of being a crime ring leader, the government actually PROTECTS you with whistleblower and witness protection laws.
3. As a society we ACTIVELY ENCOURAGE random unassociated people to call out suspicious behavior that isn't even a crime yet, in hopes of preventing a murder, suicide, mass-shooting, or terrorist attack.
But in sexual assault, I guess it is still like a Salem/McCarthy witch-hunt. We're still working on getting past #1.
NOHOME said:We may be entering an era of repercussions. Unfortunately as with every pressure cooker that is pent up for too long, there is going to be an explosive moment while a new reality is established.
This...this is why it appears to be all happening at once. Harvey Weinstein being outed was when the pressure cooker ruptured, and now everything is spewing out.
alfadriver said:That's interesting. Although, not shocking that some think that.
Also not shocking that some can't fathom any other possible options. 2 sides to every coin. It behooves us to take a look at both sides before jumping to conclusions.
93EXCivic said:
1. Just cause they were paid lots of money to act in a film doesn't make it not sexual harassment or assault.
I understand what you are saying and am inclined to agree. As stated previously actual sexual harassment or abuse is not something I take lightly, but for whatever reason I have little to no sympathy for whatever reason for the Hollywood types. They all knew this was happening and cashed in. I have no doubt many of them knew going into the "situations" with that slimebag all they had to do was 'perform' and fame and fortune would be theirs.
It doesn't seem like anyone in the media is shocked by accusations against Matt Lauer either. All this bleeding hearts (including Matt Lauer) pretend to fight this type of thing when they are truly both the cause and the effect of this kind of bullE36 M3.
Comparing that type behavior to what a High school girl might be subjected to by a family member or a teacher isn't anywhere near the same thing in my book and personally maybe I am a horrible person but the Hollywood crowd I see as "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". Just because what happened is wrong doesn't mean I am going to give a E36 M3.
For me the Hollywood crowd is getting worked up about what amounts to a stripper getting groped in a back room... There are lots of reasons to be sad and a desire to help the girl that ended up in that position, but that actual act while horrible isn't the real problem/crime nor will the solution be found focusing in on that.
There is just to much real crime for me to be heartbroken about whether or not some bimbo had to fondle a weirdo to make 10 million.
It's definitely not a simple issue to address. It certainly SHOULD be: "DON'T HARRASS/ABUSE ANYONE!" seems simple enough for me but far too many people seem to not be able to manage it. It's difficult at times to even simply talk about it without people jumping to conclusions and judging you without all the information. I'm eternally thankful that SWMBO and I are on the same page with our views on all of this...
I work with people who are serious hound dogs. They can't walk by something in a skirt without making a show of looking. They also can't go a week without female companionship, they constantly jump from one bed to another to another in search of more sex.
In a related department, I know of one guy who gets to keep exactly $100 from every pay cheque (we get paid every two weeks). He has almost a dozen kids from four different women and pays support on all of them. I would feel bad for him, but he deserves it. He seems to have calmed down though, been with his latest g/f for several years now
mad_machine said:In a related department, I know of one guy who gets to keep exactly $100 from every pay cheque (we get paid every two weeks). He has almost a dozen kids from four different women and pays support on all of them. I would feel bad for him, but he deserves it. He seems to have calmed down though, been with his latest g/f for several years now
Because he has to--There is no way he could afford to live anywhere unless he's crashing with someone (i.e. girlfriend)
z31maniac said:^Let's please not compare a catering company filled college kids to a professional/corporate environment.
A catering company filled with college kids IS a professional environment and has to comply to all the laws / regulations / standards being discussed in these cases.
ronholm said:I understand what you are saying and am inclined to agree. As stated previously actual sexual harassment or abuse is not something I take lightly, but for whatever reason I have little to no sympathy for whatever reason for the Hollywood types. They all knew this was happening and cashed in. I have no doubt many of them knew going into the "situations" with that slimebag all they had to do was 'perform' and fame and fortune would be theirs.....
I understand what you are saying and it is entirely reasonable for those that did not mind the situation (or took advantage of it), but that is not the point. It's the fact that many (most, some) did not want to do things that way that makes it wrong.
Lets just say, wherever you work, the new standard is that if you want to keep your job, you must do sexual favors for a superior (you would otherwise find objectionable of course). Would you be OK with that? What if other were? What if in your area, this was common, so if you left for something else, you might get the same? I suspect you would not find that OK.
Hollywood of course is a somewhat special case. It is a HUGE buyers market as far as the creators of content is concerned. There is a never ending line of people wanting to work in the industry, with few jobs, which makes it ripe for this sort of thing.
The really enraging thing about Hollywood is that EVERYONE knew it was happening, for MANY years. I can certainly understand why those getting abused where not doing anything, but there is NO excuse for those in the higher positions. Those are the people that should truly be ashamed.
aircooled said:z31maniac said:^Let's please not compare a catering company filled college kids to a professional/corporate environment.
A catering company filled with college kids IS a professional environment and has to comply to all the laws / regulations / standards being discussed in these cases.
Ahhhh, going to be that guy I see. Well done and kudos to you. Have a wonderful day.
Hhhhmmmmmmmmm.....Carnac says this thread is going to get locked.
You can tell just by the peeps posting in it.
To all those that say "don't be a creeper and you got nothing to worry about", well you've obviously never been falsely accused of some social injustice.
Can you imagine the work HR has at NBC or the other places?
Any thing we should know about?
IBTL? My son was fired as a manager of a Houstons' restaurant in Atlanta because a server alleged he "went skinny dipping" with her and had relations. He was fired.
She later recanted her story saying she did it because Ian "made her work" and had to deal with the fallout from fellow employees who liked Ian; didn't make him less fired. Houston's HR person knew Ian and what was up, found him a nice gig in Manhattan with apologies. Still fired.
Onus of proof is on the accused. 
To me, there is a significant difference between social fallout and legal fallout of wrongful accusations. I think many of the social fallout problems occur with just about any wrongful accusation. I do not believe we in this thread have much data on the legal fallout of wrongful sexual assault accusations vs any other wrongful accusation.
If you are school board president giving an update at a public meeting and someone stands up and shouts "you stole money from the school to fund your race car team" you are going to have significant social fallout - just like if someone shouts "you assaulted me when I was a teen". Heck, even being wrongfully accused of farting in class in middle school can cause significant social fallout. The social fallout problems of wrongful accusations are not new or limited just to sexual assault cases.
Uh, why lock? This seems to be a civil discussion with hardly any disparate views. We wouldn't be gender-stereotyping now, would we?
KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:It has a very McCarthy feel to it at the moment.
Yes it does
No offense Ms Suddard, but that is the ugliest cat I ever saw in your profile pic
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