In reply to bobzilla :
When I was young and saw someone with a nice house/car/whatever I wanted to be that guy. People now want to blame that guy....
In reply to bobzilla :
When I was young and saw someone with a nice house/car/whatever I wanted to be that guy. People now want to blame that guy....
bobzilla said:In reply to docwyte :
I don't live in a town and do not get "services". I can't even get a paved road or high speed internet. Well and septic. What again am I getting for my money?
Irritated?
(sorry - realized my prior response lacked the "quote" for context) and now you've already replied...
dOH!
In reply to bobzilla :
I never said supply and demand are not a thing, but they're far from the only thing and don't have as much effect as many think. In business-to-consumer deals supply and demand generally has less effect than "how much you got?" (Edit: I think the proper economic term for that is "what the market will bear") which is why financing issues always cause prices to go nuts.
GameboyRMH said:In reply to bobzilla :
In business-to-consumer deals supply and demand generally has less effect than "how much you got?" (Edit: I think the proper economic term for that is "what the market will bear")
I don't know what gave you that idea. "How much you got" is supply and demand
Opti said:GameboyRMH said:In reply to bobzilla :
In business-to-consumer deals supply and demand generally has less effect than "how much you got?" (Edit: I think the proper economic term for that is "what the market will bear")
I don't know what gave you that idea. "How much you got" is supply and demand
I was just about to say this. I don't think those words mean what he thinks they do.
GameboyRMH said:In reply to Steve_Jones :
Again, same guy. I was still pissed with most of the same issues. Although I must admit I didn't move because I had hope in where I was going so much as I lost hope in where I was. Maybe that'll happen again.
I'm not convinced you are, honestly. And this isn't a dig at you, but the months you were off forum between Barbados and Ontario, you changed. A lot. It seems like you gave up all your ideals and principles to take on a government knows best style of attitude, and it doesn't suit you anymore than it suits anyone else. I've noticed this for months now, and there seems to be a lot of creep further and further towards it.
I'm not trying to be inflammatory, or rude, or insulting, but there has been a very noticeable (to me) change in your personality since moving to the great white north. It might be something worth reflecting on.
But realistically, and sort of back on topic, you're in IT. Unless you're a parts swapper now, there is ZERO reason to be tied to a geographical area to work that job, and you should know that better than most. Putting yourself in such an expensive area was your own fault, especially if you aren't focusing on the areas that pay IT the best. Own it or make it better by going somewhere else, which shouldn't be hard as a programmer or developer, because all you really need to work is an internet connection.
No wife, no kids, no criminal history, a clean passport, there is literally nothing stopping you from working anywhere in the world for pretty much any company. Take that opportunity and run with it instead of festering on about the box you put yourself in. As someone who does that every day, it's not healthy, mentally or physically.
GameboyRMH said:
Lots of people would be happy with those little apartments but are being forced into detached homes which is making things more expensive for everyone.
What? No one is being "forced into detached homes".
Just like SUVs, that's what they're building most of because that's what most people want to buy.
Besides, anywhere within 2 hours' drive of where I am in the middle of the east coast, they are building apartments as fast as they can get development approval.
pheller said:Just as people can say "move to places with cheaper housing" - I can say "move to places with cheaper property taxes."
Why don't people move to rural areas with cheap property taxes? The same reason people don't leave areas with expensive housing.
My sister-in-law just did that very thing, this year.
They sold an aging house on an acre of Westchester County, NY and bought a nicer, newer house in the middle of Tennessee for less money and 20% of the property taxes. They've both been lifelong New Yorkers.
In reply to Duke :
Wife has had two family childhood friends leave NJ/NYC to move to Indiana. One sold a 1100sqft 2bd/1ba house on1/4 acre for $400k. Their yearly property tax was $12k per year. $12k. Thats $1k per month FOR TAXES. They bought a 3bd/2ba house on 1/4 acre with 2500sq ft for $270k and pay $2200 in taxes per year. They almost paid cash for their new house, pay $820 less per month in taxes, food and other necessities are about 20% less which allowed one of them to not go back to work and be the stay at home dad. The second were renting in Northern Jersey and commuting to the city daily (1.5 hour each way) and were renting an apartment. Moved here, bought a house and their commute was 10 miles and 20 minutes with bad traffic.
GameboyRMH said:In reply to bobzilla :
In business-to-consumer deals supply and demand generally has less effect than "how much you got?" (Edit: I think the proper economic term for that is "what the market will bear") which is why financing issues always cause prices to go nuts.
...which is just the flip side of "What's the lowest you'll go?"
The other half of that (which you're steadfastly ignoring) is that for a given asking price, it's up to the consumer how much the item is worth to them personally. Not worth it / out of range? Don't buy it, or look elsewhere.
Duke said:pheller said:Just as people can say "move to places with cheaper housing" - I can say "move to places with cheaper property taxes."
Why don't people move to rural areas with cheap property taxes? The same reason people don't leave areas with expensive housing.
My sister-in-law just did that very thing, this year.
They sold an aging house on an acre of Westchester County, NY and bought a nicer, newer house in the middle of Tennessee for less money and 20% of the property taxes. They've both been lifelong New Yorkers.
I've done that myself. Move from an expensive downtown house in a popular area to another city. Our first house wasn't in a popular area for the first 10 years we owned it. Then the market exploded. I made $230k off the sale of the first house and bought the next one in a less popular area for cash. Not having a house payment for the last 10 years has been rather nice.
Now, the current house is in the next up-and-coming place to live. So we are in the process of doing it again. I will end up doubling my money when I sell this house. That will let me build a nice retirement home and put a pile of cash in the bank.
The expensive areas aren't where I want to live. I'd rather have a commute to somewhere nicer to live.
In reply to bobzilla :
So you don't have any fire department? Police/sheriff coverage? Schools?
In reply to GameboyRMH :
So wind back the clock 40-60 years. Ok, but we'll all get paid those same wages then? Interest rates will be 15% like they were back then? As pointed out, the average new car costs $40k now, that's a far cry from the '60's. You can't look back, you have to deal with the present and look forward. Don't like what you see? Then you need to evaluate what you can change in order to do something about it
Opti said:Duke said:GameboyRMH said:I think it's a bit silly to live a life being chased around the planet, being excluded from whole regions due to irrationally exploding home prices. There has to be a better solution than turning humanity into a nomadic species fleeing an insane housing market.
EXCEPT YOU"RE NOT DOING THAT.
If you have affordability challenges where you are, you find a place where your income potential and buying potential match up, and you move there.
ONCE.
Say you move to Terre Haute to take advantage of that sweet spot, and buy a house you can afford. Awesome.
Then, 200,000 other people get the same idea, and Terre Haute is suddenly not the sweet spot any more, because values have gone up.
So the VALUE of your house has suddenly gone up, but the COST of your house has not. You will not suddenly become unable to afford the house you could afford before the influx. You may no longer be able to afford a different house in the same area, true. But you will not be thrown out of your current house.
You're not being chased by anything. And, lo and behold, you have now built wealth by having an affordable house in a thriving area.
I generally agree with what you are saying but its not always true because of property taxes. Plenty of people are chased out of a home because of balooning valuations that comes with large tax bills. Abolish property taxes.
Meh, abolish property taxes, they'll just get it some other way. Perfect example:
Oklahoma has a 4.75% state income tax. Texas has no state income tax. On average, property taxes in Texas are 2-3x the expense of what property taxes would be in Oklahoma.
I did the math on it a few years back, it's nearly a wash, at our income level and housing price.
In reply to z31maniac :
There are definitely situations where moving to a different municipality/state can have overall financial benefits from a tax perspective, but in my calculations (comparing Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, and Kentucky, using sales tax, income tax, property tax) it is rarely significant. Like $500 difference overall in a year.
Note: I ran these numbers in 2014-2015ish. Good chance things have changed.
I've got a lot to say on this topic, but am glad that I stayed out. Hey, how about those new Alfa 33 Stradales?!
docwyte said:In reply to bobzilla :
So you don't have any fire department? Police/sheriff coverage? Schools?
Fire Dept is volunteer. County sherriff covers the entire county with 10 officers so calls usually mean a state or whatever town is closest and has someone free. REsponse time is around 15-20 minutes. Schools are paid out of it but no kids and they won't teach my dogs. So again, what am I getting out of it?
Toyman! said:Duke said:pheller said:Just as people can say "move to places with cheaper housing" - I can say "move to places with cheaper property taxes."
Why don't people move to rural areas with cheap property taxes? The same reason people don't leave areas with expensive housing.
My sister-in-law just did that very thing, this year.
They sold an aging house on an acre of Westchester County, NY and bought a nicer, newer house in the middle of Tennessee for less money and 20% of the property taxes. They've both been lifelong New Yorkers.
I've done that myself. Move from an expensive downtown house in a popular area to another city. Our first house wasn't in a popular area for the first 10 years we owned it. Then the market exploded. I made $230k off the sale of the first house and bought the next one in a less popular area for cash. Not having a house payment for the last 10 years has been rather nice.
Now, the current house is in the next up-and-coming place to live. So we are in the process of doing it again. I will end up doubling my money when I sell this house. That will let me build a nice retirement home and put a pile of cash in the bank.
The expensive areas aren't where I want to live. I'd rather have a commute to somewhere nicer to live.
We have about 7-8 years before retirement and we are planning on moving for our health. We currently have doubled what we put into the house when we built it in 2004. Since there's no mortgage to eat into that, that will be a nice little bonus for us to move somewhere else (we are already making plans for that next house, to be paid off before we retire if possible). WE built for $212k, current market value $410k. We are about $60k over inflation currently.... sure doesn't seem like "runaway home prices" to me to gain value after almost 20 years but I apparently don't understand the new definitions of supply and demand.
In reply to bobzilla :
Even volunteer fire departments get local government funding.
In reply to Duke :
Ours had to apply for a couple federal grants to get newer equipment two years ago now I think plus the normal fund raisers. They do get some, but because we are technically a rural entity of Zionsville all of their funding gets split with Zionsville
bobzilla said:docwyte said:In reply to bobzilla :
So you don't have any fire department? Police/sheriff coverage? Schools?
Schools are paid out of it but no kids and they won't teach my dogs. So again, what am I getting out of it?
An educated populace?
EDIT: And an employed spouse?
In reply to mtn :
As mentioned above they would tax us in other ways.
IMO, property tax should be a one time tax and not in perpetuity.
In reply to bobzilla :
I could get on board with that.
mtn said:bobzilla said:docwyte said:In reply to bobzilla :
So you don't have any fire department? Police/sheriff coverage? Schools?
Schools are paid out of it but no kids and they won't teach my dogs. So again, what am I getting out of it?
An educated populace?
EDIT: And an employed spouse?
I really needed to address this one..... I think you forgot the air quotes over "educated populace".
mtn said:In reply to bobzilla :
I could get on board with that.
Again, they'd just get it in other ways.
Our property tax mainly pays for schools and the public library. A one-time fee isn't going to cover schools forever. I'm just glad we don't have a yearly personal property tax like some states do.
Which reminds me, I need to renew the tag on my car.
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