ExPatriots...Curious about relocating abroad experiences

No, not seriously thinking moving just curious about your experiences either permanent or temporary. At my age and with my vocation not likely much of a demand for a broke down old lawyer. LOL

Although I probably have sufficient resources to enjoy my retirement comfortably overseas, I doubt if it's enough to meet requirements to relocate in another country. Like I said not considering moving but just curious about your experiences.

I've done it twice, first from Germany to the UK and then from the UK to the US.

In both cases, I had been to both countries regularly before the big move, but still had to keep in mind that you don't know anything about how things really work. Keeping an open mind and figuring things out helped a lot in both cases, as did a willingness to accept that things are different. The fun part with the US is that it looks very familiar to "us foreigners" from all the media exports, but is actually pretty different than the image projected.

The expats/emigrants I've seen fail are the ones who showed up with an attitude of "but in Germany we do things this way, and that is much better than your backwards ways".

Oh, and people are pretty much the same all over the place. Especially car people.

I could talk about this for hours as being an Ex-Pat pretty much defines my life. I know I did the ex-pat thing in the opposite direction to what you are considering, but it's probably still relevant.  Note, I got here in 94 on work visas, got my Green card in 2000 and became a citizen in 2008.

First, it's a well known (semi) joke amongst my friends and family that I came here in August 94 for 6-12 months with the intention of earning some money, having some fun, reinforcing my prejudice of what a terrible place America was and what horrible people lived there then going ‘home’ again to settle down……….. Fast forward pushing 25 years I am a proud American with a little blue passport and I can’t imagine ever living in the UK again (France and Italy are still on the table) 

For me the first couple of years was a bit of an extended holiday.  Everything was shiny, new and the smallest differences were a source of amusement.  Age wise I’m way past this now, but when I was single and first here, I can tell you that every joke about an English accent increasing your IQ and looks by 20-30% is true.  An English accent was a total babe magnet back then.  Unfortunately one they got to know you, no fancy accent can disguise you!!  Once I was past about the third year and went back to the UK for a holiday I had the shocking realization that the UK was now a foreign country and the US was now my home.  From then on I’ve become more and more ‘Americanized’  I think by about year 15 I had reached what will probably be my homeostasis of feeling between my two countries

There were a few (some big) shocks and good/bad points.  These are based on my experience and world view coming to the US from the UK.  You may be different, very different and experience these things differently.  In no particular order:

• Even as an educated white male (the ‘privileged class’) there were still some people with a major hard on against foreigners.  I had boarder guards telling me they hated people like me coming and stealing jobs from Americans as they literally threw my passport back into the car. 
• Health care was and still is a shock.  No one I’ve met who’s come here form another first world country, even super right wing conservative types, still can’t fathom the lack of universal health coverage or understand why it doesn’t’ exist.  Surprise at that is still only topped by the surprise and dismay at how expensive (out of pocket) and piss poor health care  is over here unless you have a lot of money.
• Gas is stupidly, criminally cheap here, you will find the opposite just about anywhere else
• Open space and urban sprawl respectively impress and appall me, again you’d find the opposite unless going somewhere similar to here.
• Radio sucks here
• Banking here is 20 years behind the rest of the world (pin and chip for instance originated in France in the late 80’s)
• Freedom and space.  There really is more here of both than most other places.
• Cars in general and car hobbies specifically are way cheaper, way less regulated and way more access to cheap track time than anywhere else.  I was paying LESS for wheel to wheel entry fees and license in 1999 that I had to so sprints and hillclimbs six years earlier in England.
• Don’t get bent out of shape about emissions testing over here.  You can literally drive pretty much anything legally on the road here.  Forget that in most first world countries.  The UK isn’t bad, but many countries, especially Germany, the Scandinavian countries and Australia and New Zealand are way more strict.  Down under you even have issue changing tire sizes from stock.
• I instantly earned way more over here and EVERYTHING was (is) cheaper so my standard of living is way higher here.  The opposite is also true.
• Eating out is cheaper here with one very important exception.  The National dish of the UK, Indian food (typically lumped under the heading ‘curry’) is way more expensive here.  This is still a massive let down.
• Customer service is actually real here
• The American National park system is simply outstanding.  If you have the slightest interest in outdoor life you’ve got it made here.
• This is a very very young country.  A few East Coast cities have some actual history and wonderful architecture, but when you live in a country/continent that has thousands of years of history and building as old as 2-3-4 thousand years it takes something like the Castillo de San Marcos in St. Augustine to impress you.

OK, this is a mix of mainly light hearted banter.  If you have any specific questions let me know and I’ll see what I can do to answer them.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

Great synopsis. I have traveled extensively all over the world but not for any extended location other than three months spent island hopping in the Caribbean and a backpack. Please feel free to share more of your experiences if you have time. Great perspective

In reply to BoxheadTim :

Thanks for sharing your experiences. More if you have time.

Ovid_and_Flem said:

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

Great synopsis. I have traveled extensively all over the world but not for any extended location other than three months spent island hopping in the Caribbean and a backpack. Please feel free to share more of your experiences if you have time. Great perspective

Busy today, maybe more tomorrow, but a quick one for now.

BAck in the winter of 96/97 I actually lived in Hermossillo in Sonora Mexico for about 8-9 months while launching the Escort ZX2 coupe down there so I had time to adsorb another culture.  I will tell you now that the difference between Mexico and the US is far greater than the difference between the US and Europe.  That's not just a language thing as mainland Europe speaks a variety of different languages, obviously including Spanish.  This is hard to say without sounding racist.  I am not.  I am way to the left on Immigration and equality for all peoples, but there is a definite difference that comes I think from the fact that Mainland Europe and the US and Canada have obviously been the economic power houses of the last couple of centuries since the industrial revolution.  For all the issues all countries and cultures have, there is a huge noticeable difference between those countries who have wealthy and successful for hundreds of years Vs those that have had to fight against the odds for that time.  Mexico is a wonderful place with wonderful people, but the expectations of goods, services, infrastructure etc. is night and day (away from tourist traps)  The number of half finished, poorly constructed and rapidly deteriorating buildings, roads, bridges etc. is astounding.  The poverty is also sickeningly obvious with shack towns on the edge of cities etc.  One more thing, despite the ongoing issues we have here with gender equality and discrimination, it's way worse for women down there.  Cat calling, harassment, public groping (pinch a women ass) was at least then, still tolerated and cheered.  I would have to have been a young attractive women there at least at that time.  Also basic bribery is common, or was in my experience down there.  But guess what, once past those superficial differences people are the same.  Nice people and nice people, nasty people are nasty people.  Smart people are smart and dumb people are dumb.  Here, there, anywhere.

Sorry to some, I have to touch on some political views here.  I don't mean to piss people off, many of you will have diametrically opposed views, but this is just to demonstrate the 'grass is greener' line of thinking.

Some times I get really pissed off and depressed at some basic things in this society, but as soon as Europe starts looking greener than here, there are a slew of other things that piss me off about Europe and the UK.  I was at the point a during the recent SCOTUS hearing where I was actually checking employment possibilities going forward in mainland Europe (NOT the UK)

.......

OK, so I wrote my usual mini essay, but then deleted it.  It would have turned this into a political pissing match.

Suffice to say.  If you are considering moving, do it because of a job, relationship, interest in the culture, climate, environment etc.  Don't do it because you are pissed off at politics because if you do, you'll find a list of issues wherever you are going that piss you off just as much.

No where is perfect, many places are wonderful.  

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

Not to get political either, but I'm real curious about Healthcare Systems in other industrialized Nations. Just as an academic discussion not trying to take one position or another

Wow, Boxhead and Adrian nailed it in their first two posts.  I've lived in two different countries on two very different continents and can reiterate a few points:

- The first year, I call the "honeymoon period".  Everything is new and shiny and cultural differences are amusing (by year 4, some of those "amusing differences" become quite aggervating)

- Nothing, and I mean NOTHING is ever like you've seen on TV.  In the media or otherwise.  It's way way better.  

- This goes with Adrian's "people are the same everywhere":  Living where I am now, I often meet Syrians or Iranians that tell me where they're from and you can tell they expect me to react.   In getting to know them I've learned that for all the differences you'd expect us to focus on, we're very very much the same.  (Unfortunately that includes "the few ruin it for the many".  You catch the right jerk on the right day, and all your stereotypes are reinforced despite the overwhelming evidence otherwise.)

- I gotta repeat this one, because he nails it:  "the radio sucks (in the States)"

- Other divers are idiots everywhere.

And you're wrong, you know.  You can find ANY job overseas.  I bet there's even something for an "old broke down lawyer" on USA jobs.  Maybe with an embassy?  Do it man.  Once you live overseas you change.  Before my move to Hungary I was very different than the person who moved back to Tacoma.  It took us three years but we're back overseas again.  We dont have any plans to return.  That may change, but that's what happened when we moved overseas the first time.

 I gotta get.  Time to put the kids to bed

If you expat yourself, You will never be "From Here".

When I have lived in the USA, I have been considered either a Puerto Rican or a Canadian.  When I lived in out of country I was called a Yank  or a Gringo. Not meant as a compliment in most cases. Used to spend time in the schoolyard defending the Motherland. Not anymore.

If you offshore your domicile, speak with a tax accountant. It cost a fair bit to file your taxes when living abroad and doing it wrong comes with some serious penalties. You will be double taxed on any investments so keep that in mind. "Earned Income" is not the same as "Investment Income" for tax treaty purposes. Your new domicile might stick a fork in inheritance assets. A good accountant might mitigate that, but his fees will eat the profit.  Banks in some countries no longer accept US citizen business because it is to much of a PITA to track and report all your $$$ to Uncle Sam, and if they screw up they suffer huge penalties. Vanguard does not want your business if you offshore.  If you move overseas and have kids, keep their future tax burden in mind as a lot of expat's kids who did not have a clue now have huge USA tax liabilities even though they have never even visited the USA.

Anywhere I have lived, the majority of people are great. Nigeria was a bit digital in that they were either offering drink and daughters or trying to kill you, but still some great people. Stay out of local politics whatever you do and as always, avoid religion like the plague.

A lot of places in the world still work on the bribe system. Takes some getting used to and as  a foreigner, you will be overpaying most likely.

To echo something said above, the rest of the world can't understand how the most powerful country on earth has zero healthcare for its people or interest in providing it. In any other country I have lived in or spent time, the key mandate of the medical infrastructure is NOT to figure out how to make your $$$ their money like it is in the US.  So if you move, enjoy. Even if you are paying out of pocket, you would be amazed how little it cost compared to the US.

NOT being an American while traveling or living abroad is difficult. We don't blend in well. Think of a stereotypical Texan outside of Texas; that is kinda the universal view of an American abroad.

But bottom line, do it. Find any excuse you can to live in another country for 2-3 years because it is worth it. See the world from the other side and gaze into the fishbowl rather than at its reflective walls.

PS  It is hard on kids. Kids either become very well adjusted and confident, or go the other way and become introspective.

In reply to Hungary Bill :

I grew up overseas, sort of. I was an Army brat and spent much of my formative years in Germany, England, British Honduras and Guam. But not the same thing as living somewhere as an adult.

BoxheadTim said:

The expats/emigrants I've seen fail are the ones who showed up with an attitude of "but in Germany we do things this way, and that is much better than your backwards ways".

I see that same attitude when Californians move to Colorado. Takes them a few years to get it out of their system. It's not limited to people coming from outside the country :)

I've lived abroad (France, Australia) and have emigrated from Canada to the US. Here are a few of the high points I found coming into the US, which may or may not apply to moving to other countries.

- your credit history may not follow you. In my case, I owned my own house in Canada and had an excellent credit rating there, but it didn't make the jump to the US. This made it difficult to rent an apartment and it did spectacular things to my car insurance premiums. Even trying to get a credit card involved some tap dancing - I eventually had to get a Canadian-issued Amex because then Amex USA would issue me one. This was the biggest hassle for me. Took about two years for it all to settle down. 

- you will be the first person to ever do it. Seriously, it's like nobody ever moved into the US before when it comes to stuff like getting a bank account or a visa or a SSN.

- transferring your money is a pain and a great way to see a chunk of it disappear. It's easier to move money out of the US than into, which I think is a reflection of the relative size of economies. It behooves Canadian banks to accept US checks, but a US bank has no motivation to deal with Canadian cheques.

- There are a lot more small businesses in the US. The whole American dream thing seems to encourage a far larger variety of small businesses. This may not actually be true, but it sure seemed like that when I moved. This also applies to the banking system, which is far more homogenous in Canada than in the US.

- your accent will affect how you're treated. Americans (and those that sound like them) are not universally admired, even in "friendly" nations. It sets you apart even if you look the same. Having a chunky bad Quebec accent when living in France means people assume you're from Switzerland, which does not carry any baggage. Having a Canadian accent in the US is cute, but not in the babe magnet fashion of a UK, South African or Australian accent.

- the health care thing. It's so, so broken in the US.

- Canada vs US has a very different view of government. Canadians want their government to take care of them. Americans want to be protected from it. I think that's where the "no universal health care" viewpoint comes from, people don't trust the government with their health but they'll somehow accept for-profit corporations.

Did you like visiting the Caribbean? Maybe do that again, but I wouldn't recommend moving here unless you're retiring with many suitcases full of cash. Around here jobs are very hard to get, and good jobs for locals are never earned, only gifted. On top of that, employers here seem to have a strong bias against immigrants (and remember that "expat" without the context of where you're coming from is just a pretentious term for "immigrant") unless they're stupendoulsy skilled and/or handpicked by the employer ahead of time, in which case you will be showered with riches (that's the one way to earn a good job).

I once read a story of a medical assistant from England who moved here and sent out hundreds of job applications over the course of a few years (sounds like it might've been literally All The Jobs), for all different kinds of jobs, and never heard back from a single one.

Also the cultural difference has been very difficult to adapt to for me, coming from Canada.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Absolutely love the Caribbean. I travel there many times to many different Islands over the last 30 years. Had some free time when I did my 3 months Walkabout on the islands. Since I was familiar with most of the islands, I just flew into USVI and then Island hopped South to Tobago. Just let the wind blow me. I Had No Reservations other than a return plane trip ticket out of Tobago when I started. Did not stay in anything touristy . only ate in local restaurants. Local bars. 22 or 23 Islands over the course of that trip and stayed completely away from any resorts. I can't think of a single place that I had any trouble. Only incident I had was somebody stole a $20 Timex I have left on my beach towel.

I literally did not have a single reservation or plans for the entire trip. I caught rides on mail boats or on sailboats with people I met along the way. Stayed in guest houses where the towels didn't match and you didn't have hot water sometimes. Other times in literal Caribbean mansions of people I met along the way as their guest.

Yeah vacationing in the Caribbean is good. Even living here isn't bad, it's some people's idea of paradise. But working for a living here? 1 star, would not do again.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Yeah, I imagine it would be difficult to work in the Caribbean. In any event I'm not considering seriously moving anywhere at this stage. I'm essentially completely retired now largely due to my health issues. Where do you live?

Barbados.

One of my favorite Islands. Spent many hours in a Mini Moke going all through the rainforest getting lost and having a ball.

Weary of non stop sea food had a. Great "burger" from street side vendor called "Windy's Drive Thu"

Probably best evening meal in all off islands was Oistin's fried fling fish and ground provisions out of little chattel houses.

Ovid_and_Flem said:

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

Not to get political either, but I'm real curious about Healthcare Systems in other industrialized Nations. Just as an academic discussion not trying to take one position or another

I will dip my toe in then, even though it's dangerously close to politics.  ECM, Seth, GRM staff members, please let me know if I've stepped over a line here.  Note this is mainly personal opinion.

Background.  I lived the first 25 years of my life in the UK using the National health system.  Since I moved here coming on 25 years ago I have obviously stayed in touch with friends, family and acquaintances so I basically have 50 years of personal, close family experience, friends, family anecdotes and press coverage of the UK National Health System.  I now have close to 25 years of personal, family, friends and news experience of the US pay to play system.

Let's cover the facts first.

The US pays more per capita for health care than any other nation.

Link - US costs per capita $10.3K annually.  Next highest Switzerland (with far higher GDP per capita earnings and wages) at $7.9K, average European countries listed was $5.2K

Wiki link US costs per capita $9.9K annually.  Next highest Switzerland at $7.9K, average of 2nd through 21st countries listed was $4.7K 

PBS link 17.6% of GDP goes to health while the average of the top 35 or so countries is less than 9.5% of GDP.

I could keep linking forever, but I think it's fair to say that in general terms the US spends more than twice (or close to) in either costs or % of GDP of most other developed first world countries on health care.

Great, we pay twice as much, our health care system must berkeleying rock.  We must be the healthiest country  in the world with the best access to the best medicine.  'Murica F-yeah'.....Opps, hold on.  Let's look at quality of health care.

WHO rankings from Wiki US ranks 37th in overall health system performance.  We rank 32nd on attainment of health distribution

CIGNA rank of top 10 health systems The US doesn't even get on the list and CIGNA is a freeking health insurance company

US news top 10  AGain the US isn't on the list.

MD Magazine MD, as in Medical Doctor Magazine global rankings the US come 29th

I could go on and on, but I don't think it's unfair to say that the US doesn't even come in the top 20 for health care anywhere.

Now, personal experience.

I will be the first to admit no system is perfect.  The British National health system tends to be ranked in the 5th to 15th ish place on these lists while Canada tends to be listed in the upper half of the top ten.  Why do I signal those two countries out?  Because they are English speaking countries that people who are pro the US system tend to single out as examples of why a single payer/National health system/Socialized medicine can't, doesn't work and will lead to loss of care, death lists, waiting lists etc.  Neither of those two systems, nor any other is perfect.  Tragically people will not get served, have to wait, mistakes etc.etc.  But I honestly believe those cases are so few and far between that they are the exceptions that prove the rule.  LEt me list some things that I've never, not have any of my friends, family or extended acquaintances have had to deal with or suffer from in the UK or Canada that I have personally met people that have suffered from here.

• Submitting a claim to a health insurance company who pay, you pay the check in then they change their mines and take the money back leaving you with a $50 overdraft fee (that one was personal)
• A hospital kills them on the operating table having used the wrong anesthetic, they then saved their life and charged them for saving it.  The same thing happened to the same person the next time they were in the same hospital for the same reason (Cancer).  YEs the hospital and insurance were in the wrong, but a single divorced mother with (what turned out to be) terminal cancer can't afford the money or emotional stress of fighting them.
• Someone was in a car accident while uninsured in their 20's and ended up in bankruptcy
• Someone got an emergency tracheotomy after a snow mobile accident and the insurance company retroactively decided it was needed so called it elective.  He list most his retirement savings trying to fight that one.
• This one may not longer apply.  I knew a woman in the late 90's early 00's who had a heart condition that was found out while working.  They hated their job, it didn't pay well, was massively stressful and a toxic work environment.  They tried to change jobs, interviewed and were offered other jobs, but when health care came up they had a pre-existing condition so the new insurance wouldn't cover it so they were stuck in a place that was literally killing them with stress (the ACA fixed this one)
• Getting a new job and the health coverage doesn't kick in for 30 days so I"ve met people who have risked not having coverage. Some got lucky, others had kids who ended up in A&E and they lost thousands.  Others (me included) have had to pay for COBRA at eye wateringly high rates.
• Running out of money for elder care.
• Older family members ending up in horrible conditions due to lack of $$"s 

Things I've never experienced in the UK

• Out of pocket costs.  You need a doctor, you see a doctor.  YOu need a hospital you go (or ride in an ambulance) to a hospital.  That's it, no insurance, no costs no nothing.  Just care.
• Mythical waiting for emergency procedures.  Personal example here.  Totally my mothers fault, but I'll tell it.  About five years ago my mother spent nearly six months here over different trips as my sister, her partner and kids were living with her after a house move fell through.  IT was stressful so she extended her stay from the new year to Feb.  We had already planned a skiing trip up North the weekend before she left.  We went and she stayed at our house with the Instructions 'Don't go outside', 'If you have to go outside don't wear you normal boots, they have no grip', if it's an emergency and icy and you really need to go outside, wear crampons on your boots', 'whatever you do, don't walk the dog, let him out in the back yard, he's fine with that in this weather'.  Guess what?  She did every single 'Do Not'. slipped, fell and broke both wrists.  We got a call from our neighbor who helped her home and in, not knowing she had broken wrists.  Because she'd extended her stay her travel insurance had run out and no one had thought about it.  Luckily we have friendly doctors and chiropractors, but she couldn't afford tgo go to hospital as Google indicated it would cost anywhere from $7.5-$25K per wrist.  Pain killers and splints until she could fly home.  Once she gets back (with lots of help from airport porters etc.) my sister drove her straight from the hospital.  X-rays and examination all done within a couple of hours.  Verdict, two brocken wrists, will need an operation on both to pin them.  As it's not fresh it's not an emergency so you'll have to wait.  Uh oh, that hideous National Health service waiting lsit we keep hearing about.  She had to wait, for days and days.  Two days in total then she went in and had them operated on one at a time a couple of days apart.  What was her cost for all the visits and follow up?  $0 ZERO, zip, nadda nothing.  Just fixed for free.

Yes, these horrible waiting lists exist for elective things, but emergencies, critical and urgent care is just that.  Seen as soon as possible in 99.9% of situations.  No fuss, no hassle.

One more thing.  A single payer National health system doesn't' not in any way preclude extra insurance.  Many people in good paying jobs have it.  I had it for the few years that I worked there before moving here.  Not provided by my employer, but through my parents business.  Neither I or they ever needed it. It's only needed if you want an elective surgery and don't' want to wait, or if you want a private room.  It's available, but it's a luxury, not a necessity.

Oh, and we have the stupid system where one spouse may have great insurance through their employer and the other spouse has E36 M3ty insurance through theirs, but they can't go on the first spouses system without paying a massive penalty

Oh, here's another one more thing.  My father eventually passed of Alzheimers, although he had a slew of other issues as well.  He spent his last five years in a variety of medical facilities.  Do you know what the family out of pocket costs was?  Zero, just a reduction in his state Pension, most (not all)  was withheld to help cover what I assume was a tiny tiny portion of the cost.

To sum up my vague and roving ramblings my view is this.  The pay to play insurance system here costs at least twice what the supposed evil, inefficient single payers systems in other countries costs providing care that doesn't even come in the top 20 in the world.  IT's expensive, exclusionary, massively inefficient as well as stressful for all but the top earning people.  I am lucky, I have a great paying job with great benefits and even Im normally at least $6-7K out of pocket every year.

This is not to say that the US medical system doesn't have good points.  This is still one of the leading countries for research, new technologies, new procedures etc.  This country also does a great (although some would say it's just a PR exercise) of helping people from around the world with issues.  This country has great health care if you are wealthy.  But it cant' be denied that access to affordable health care sucks.  Health related issues are the leading cause of bankruptcy, not spending too much, not loosing your job, not buying too much house.  Health care costs.

Don't get me started on the number of times I've been double and even triple billed for things.  I've also had therapies that were denied coverage by the insurance companies either.  Let's also not talk about the number of un-needed tests and procedures that are built into the system.  The rate of C sections etc.etc. as all that is getting too much down the opinion and too far away from fact.

OK, that's my opinion in brief.

My dad is fighting terminal cancer right now in Canada. His biggest complaint is the cost of parking, but if you buy a monthly pass it's about $5/day. In the US, we'd be worried about losing the house and we'd need a member of the family to work full-time on the paperwork. He'll never be able to see my new house because he can't get insurance to come visit me. Of course, everyone has anecdotes or has learned some titillating tidbit from their favorite media source - but if you've got sick family in both countries, the differences are pretty stark.

It may be political, but it's a real factor in deciding what country you want to live in. You choose the US despite the health care, not because of it.

Adrian_Thompson said:

Suffice to say.  If you are considering moving, do it because of a job, relationship, interest in the culture, climate, environment etc.  Don't do it because you are pissed off at politics because if you do, you'll find a list of issues wherever you are going that piss you off just as much.

No where is perfect, many places are wonderful.  

My current group has offices in 3 cities that I'd be very interested to visit a few times. Not that I'd want to permanently leave the US, but I think it would be a cool experience to live in another country for 2-4 years and come back. 

The 3 cities being Brno, Montevideo, and Barcelona.

On the topic of health care, if you're rich you absolutely should not rely on the socialized medical system here, but if flying elsewhere for health care is too rich for your blood, you could do a helluva lot worse, for a lot more money. I've used the socialized medical system once for a minor oral surgery, no problems, but there was probably some luck involved...honestly my strategy for major surgeries is the same as it is for most Americans: "don't get sick." (Edit: Local private health care system is fine for minor stuff though.)

As a Canadian expat, I think the tales of woe from our health care system are mostly propaganda made up to prevent a refugee crisis I have family there that have had surgeries that would ruin an American, with no meaningful financial damage and not much delay either. The worst things Canada's health care system has done to my family are failing to promptly get my cousin the physiotherapy he needed after leg surgery, which really screwed up his leg; and perhaps making it too easy for my grandfather to leave the hospital and go on walkabouts back when he was alive, and eventually making a mistake that contributed to his death. Doesn't sound so good when I list them all, but with the amount of family I have up there and the number of serious medical conditions among them (I have another cousin who slammed into the side of a minivan on a sportbike, and in proper medical terms, "got rekt AF" and was lucky to not only live but walk again; I have an aunt with major heart work and relatives with super serial diabetes, and some who died of cancer), and how none of them were financially ruined, the batting average is quite good.

The Not from here thing is oh so true.  I will always be a 'Brit' to most people here in the US, despite me owning something most Americans don't, an American passport.  Conversely, I will never be considered a 'Brit' anymore by anyone in the UK.  I've been gone too long and I've been diluted? Changed? acclimatized? sold out? whatever, Ill always be some kind of semi-yank to them.

But that's even true with a country, state or even small region.

My mother (and father and myself) were all born in London, but by the time I was 5 we lived in Yorkshire.  My mother has lived in the same house since 1975 and she's still 'a comer in' to the locals.

Tax. BoxheadTim raised a good point that I hadn't thought of.  BTW, one very good reason for people to become US citizens is the inheritance tax laws for non residents.  One point against becoming a US citizen is the flip side of the tax issue.  The US is one of the few States where your tax liability follows you any where you go.  If I were to move back to Europe for example, I would still be liable for US tax  (less whatever I paid there) no matter what.  For most European countries your tax liability doesn't' follow you.  That's why most top European athletes live in tax havens like Monte Carlo.  You are not taxed there, and as you are not living and earning in your original home country, you pay no income tax.  Also many European countries you don't become liable for income tax unless you've been there at least six months.  I

ve worked my whole life int he auto industry and  came here as a contractor.  It was very popular for British 'Jobbers' as agency people were known to work  just shy of six months in one country, then move to another for just under six months, rinse and repeat.  Making sure they never spent more than six months in any one country (including the UK) and they were then income tax free.  I have no idea if that is still the case though.  

Wow, this thread ended up exactly as expected.

In reply to Toebra :

Is that good or bad?  I hope good.  People sharing experiences and not sugar coating any one place?