You seem to be under thinking this. Based on your aerial view, I would just move the entire house forward to be next to the neighbors, then move the fire pit forward. You have plenty of room for a big garage at that point.
VolvoHeretic said:In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Your welcome, and no money required.
Also, when you dig out the left wall corners to add the new footings, you can underpin the existing corner footings by undermining the corners and pouring a large pad footing under the existing corner to support the girder ends.
Did that before on a patio that had washed out underneath so I at least have that muscle memory established in my brain. Thank you.
At this point SVRex and Rifle's idea seems easier to me. I can go 90 with the ridge and frame it in, but it seems like adding walls to the left and setting new 18' trusses on it seems like the least-intrusive and least labor/brain intensive. I'll have to get creative with the roll up door. I could leave it at 7x8, then add a french/double door, or just a 4' swinging door on the addition for the motorcycle/mowers. I would also likely add a sliding barn door on the new left wall for access to stuff without always jockeying things around.
Also... in case I want more height at the eaves, I suppose I could do a pony wall with questionable integrity, or stack a bunch of 2x ... or is there such thing as a scissor or raised-tie gambrel truss? Get a little more vertical before sloping in?
Steve_Jones said:You seem to be under thinking this. Based on your aerial view, I would just move the entire house forward to be next to the neighbors, then move the fire pit forward. You have plenty of room for a big garage at that point.
Then the existing basement in the house can be an oil change pit. I like where you're going with this.
Look for my upcoming thread, "Any Sikorsky pilots want to make $20?"
They can make trusses with different sill heights. Trusses can basically be made to do anything. It would end up be sort of a Half scissor half regular. I've also seen them with a short vertical bellow the sill that runs along the ceiling sort of like a little foot.
One tiny concern with redoing the roof for a wider building is your increasing the loading on the existing right hand wall. It's not by much (1/2 the live/dead load of whatever width you add) but it is something that may need to be considered. It may make sense to dig 3 posts with footings inboard of the right wall with a sistered 2*10's to take the load. You'll loose 4-6" of width inside the wall/garage, but gain a lot of structure holding up your new roof. And if you do that you could go taller to 8' walls and just build a 1' tall extension of the existing wall to fill in the gap. Additionally new steeper room in Attic trusses could be used giving you additional space for storage above the garage. I would not put Room in attic Trusses bearing on the existing wall.
In reply to nocones :
The thing that comes to my brain when you say that is... How about just build new walls instead of trying to put more weight on a shored-up 100-year-old wall?
We're kind of dancing around varying degrees of the same thing. I can leave three walls and build three additional walls... which is actually one of the easiest parts of doing a building. I could just bloody build 4 all-new walls and be done with it.
Which circles me back to the pre-engineered steel
My brain hurts.
Everything you could ever want to know about engineered trusses. Alpine Truss LLC is a software design company that many truss companies use to build their trusses. Go to page 11 of the first link's PDF to see the various trusses they offer.
Since we're spending other people's money, what about leveling the existing garage, and doing a side-loading 2-3 car garage right behind the house where the firepit is now? If allowed by the local gov, you could have it attached to the house, and have additional living space above to increase the sqft (and $$$) of the home. The living space above the garage could be finished over time as funds allow. But it might be a way to gain some living space and equity while also getting the workspace that you want.
In reply to nocones :
Take a look again at VolvoHeretic's drawing. There is no increased load on the right wall. (Except half the weight of the roof cricket- inconsequential)
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
VH's drawing does not require rebuilding the roof, therefore it is not necessary to rebuild the walls.
Your reason for keeping the right hand wall is to avoid the setback issues. You don't have the square footage on your lot to lose 5'.
Your reason for keeping the roof (and as many walls and foundation as possible) is to keep costs down.
VH's drawing adds no new stress to any existing wall or foundation. No reason to upgrade.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
And to think, all you wanted was a little lean-to. LOL
In reply to STM317 :
That's a really good site plan. It's also spendy.
In reply to SV reX :
I was responding to where Curtis said to take the roof off and replace it with 18' wide trusses of the existing ridge direction. In that situation load is added to the existing wall.
I agree completely that a 0 added load design could be made with a 90* ridge using 24' span trusses running perpendicular to the existing roof framing joists.
As to tearing down an rebuilding frequently that runs foul of zoning vs dealing with gradually reconstructing the entire structure.
I think your best bet is to end up building a 24*18 pavilion above and tied to 3 of your original walls for zoning compliance. Have the right side structural support of the roof be new posts in footings, left side is a 6' wide 3 walled building on a new foundation of your chosen design (block wall / pole barn whatever) Then just tie 3 of your existing walls into it. Yes it's mildly rediculous but it gives you a properly supported roof on new foundations without having to rip out all the old foundation work and deal with zoning variences. This new structure could easily be a steel framed building if that is the most cost effective choice with the existing wood walls tied into it. With this idea you would be able to widen the door because your "front" wall if using 18' trusses would be clear span so the door could be any width/height you want.
Okay intrigued enough by this I fired up the Menards "Project center" and made 2 attempts at your building. This is with steel with wind and roof loadings for central Illinois. Your may differ for snow load. This shows the idea better but I can't get it to let me make a partial covered 3 sided building so this has a little wall on the right and a lot of door trim for the opening you wouldn't need.
Making it without the trim by just faking it with a fully open front wall and enclosed back wall (this would get enough steel/girts etc) make it look like the trim and extra posts for the right side of the doors you wouldn't need (from the first one) are worth about $750.
So for a steel sided building today your around $6500 which seems reasonable considering it includes a new roof for the whole building.
If your municipality does not allow steel buildings or you don't want one the project center can estimate post frames with vynil siding and asphalt shingles.. when I built my garage that was about 25% more. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the delta today was more like 150% once you have to buy OSB at $48/sheet. No OSB is a huge advantage to Steel today.
I know If you use the in store project center you can build a Hay shed which is 3 partial walls and just open posts on the 4th wall.
BTW, this is for a 24x18' building with 9' high walls, 1' front and rear overhangs and 1' eves. Removal of overhangs and eve's saves a lot of money (Like $1K) but makes it look very Rural Barn vs Acceptable residential.
Ok, I made a small mistake by placing the girder truss on the existing foundation wall. I have since moved it onto the new addition side wall where it belongs which will put the roof loads on the new footing which needs a pad footing that underpins the existing garages footings, if it even has one. A continuous nailer needs to be screwed onto the side of the bottom chord of the girder truss to mount the hangers for the existing left side rafters.
VolvoHeretic said:Fun fact. My brother lives in Boulder, CO. They where trying to control growth and costs in the old downtown area and passed a law that required everybody to not just tear down old tiny houses and build all new Mc Mansions. So, people would still build their mega $$$ homes, but would bury the 100 year old tiny house somewhere inside the new mega house and just call everything an addition improvement.
The PO of my house did this. The 950 sq ft house from 1911 is at the back of the lot and he did a 3k sq ft "addition". I don't know how you can get away with it but people do.
A friend of mine owned a house in a very exclusive neighborhood that needed to be torn down and completely rebuilt from scratch.
When he found how restrictive the neighborhood was and how difficult it would be to get a new construction permit (setbacks, approvals, costs, etc, etc), he took a different path. He took down everything except the front wall, and built a new house behind it. It was permitted as a remodeling project.
When the house was nearly complete, he rebuilt the front wall one stud at a time.
If nothing else, this thread reminds me how ridiculous and arbitrary zoning restrictions are. They're like default HOA, except enforced by law (and sometimes, capriciousness).
Of course, when I lived in the south, you'd see E36 M3 like a double wide next to a mansion next to a Dollar General, so YMMV.
Whew... ok... I'm going to process this tonight.
Nocones also brings up another possibility involving less foundation digging.... pole shed with a poured slab. Dig the right wall for post supports and just do the same on the yard side. Dig, set, skin, sill board, pour. Dad does have a post auger on a 3-point. I'll have to see what the rules say about that.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:Whew... ok... I'm going to process this tonight.
Nocones also brings up another possibility involving less foundation digging.... pole shed with a poured slab. Dig the right wall for post supports and just do the same on the yard side. Dig, set, skin, sill board, pour. Dad does have a post auger on a 3-point. I'll have to see what the rules say about that.
Pole barns take a lot more concrete than you'd think, depending on locale at least.
At one point in Washington it was required to have a 3ft diameter 3 foot deep hole for pole barns. That's very close to a cubic yard per hole, and more than likely it won't be perfectly round so you might as well assume they are a yard a piece.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
We have all decided you just need to move. There's a thread here about Tony Stewart's house for sale, we all voted for that one, let us know when to come over.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
Y'all chipping in? 
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:OHSCrifle said:I'm favoring Paul's idea to build a proper footing and frame a new left wall same height as the existing wall that is on the property line.
Then build or buy trusses (or just stick frame rafters for ) for the roof, add girts and plastic corrugated roofing. Yank out the existing left wall and foundation but keep the existing slab. Boom bigger garage. Season to taste with electricity if desired.
I think I'm following, but just so we're on the same page... basically you're saying:
1- dig and pour an extension foundation,
2- continue the walls out another 6',
3- strip the 12' wide roof,
4- add 18' wide trusses,
5- ditch left wall.
6- fill in gables.
7- pour extra slabby part.
Yes. Credit to SV reX
But I also like a hybrid of (keeping up with) Steve_Jones and STM317 ideas. Move the fire pit to the front (add some trees) and build a big garage in the back left corner.
And VolvoHeretic - nice drawings!
In reply to OHSCrifle :
Thanks.
I think there are 2 big ideas here with similar results, but one will fit your life better.
Remove entire roof and reframe- Several of us have suggested variations of this. It gets you a nice big box with high ceilings and clear spans with no need for wing walls or shear walls.
90* ridge- Same square footage, but existing roof remains in place, and you probably have to put up with 4' shear walls at the left wall
Here's the major difference... your garage will be completely unusable for the duration of construction if you tear the roof off. You will have to store everything until completion. The only way to speed up the process will be to throw money at it (hire more help)
With the 90* ridge, you can build at a snail's pace, and never disrupt the existing garage until the new space is complete. You can do it almost entirely by yourself, and pay as you go.
That's a huge difference. VH's 90* ridge for the win!
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