In reply to GameboyRMH :
The silver lining is that it is always easier to find a job when you have a job. If you get it, perhaps it will be a stepping stone to something better.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
The silver lining is that it is always easier to find a job when you have a job. If you get it, perhaps it will be a stepping stone to something better.
It took 59 applications to get the interview. It took 5 days to go from wanting any job, to not wanting this one.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
I never wanted "any" job. I've been avoiding jobs with unpredictable schedules, especially in combination with minimum wages (although it seems that it's uncommon to have one without the other), jobs on graveyard shifts or with regular full-weekend work, jobs with on-call time on top of normal hours or extensive long-distance travel, also any jobs that resemble my last one too closely.
I applied for this job with little information about the schedule and knowing nothing about the pay. If I'd known those things ahead of time would I have still applied? Probably, but I definitely would've prioritized applying for others over it. If it's offered I'll take it just because of how stupendously difficult it is to get jobs these days. But with unusually low pay, long hours and being in a remote area, there are reasons this one is easier to get than others.
12 hour days are tough but that's a ton of non working days, just looking at the bright side.
GameboyRMH said:I've been avoiding jobs with:
unpredictable schedules, especially in combination with minimum wages
jobs on graveyard shifts
regular full-weekend work
jobs with on-call time on top of normal hours
extensive long-distance travel
also any jobs that resemble my last one too closely.
GameboyRMH said:
I'll take it just because of how stupendously difficult it is to get jobs these days.
It's not "stupendously difficult to get jobs these days'". It might be difficult to get a job meeting your requirements but jobs are out there. It's becoming clearer why this thread is so long
In reply to Steve_Jones :
It's possible that the available jobs getting worse could be a factor, but it is objectively very hard to get a job these days, with the average applications required to land a job now somewhere into the 3-digits and the application-to-job opening ratio significantly worse than just last year:
https://fortune.com/2024/09/19/job-applications-four-times-higher-requisitions-2024/
For a person with my level of skills I think my job requirements are quite modest:
1. Predictable and regular-ish hours (meaning not too much weekend work)
2. Decent pay for the hours and level of skill required
3. Reasonable commute (also meaning not too much long-distance travel)
4. Not a fast-paced job with a perpetual-crunch workload
These were totally ordinary traits for most jobs (especially those with higher skill/education requirements) before the pandemic, would those be the traits of a cushy job now? This job is already not doing great on 1 and 3, fails 2, I suspect it might pass 4 but there's no way to be sure until I'm in it.
Got another interview request, this time with a local shipping company to drive a courier van around. Per-hour pay is slightly less than the NOC job but weekly hours are more, over 10 hours per day 5 days a week. That means more overtime pay, and with the commute being about 1/3rd as long I'd save a few grand in gas and car consumables per year as well, so it should end up bringing home more.
Workload is unknown, it could have me constantly sprinting like a UPS driver, or worse yet driving like a maniac and pissing in bottles like an Amazon driver, but I do appreciate a job where work with a close deadline can't randomly pile onto your desk while you're already swamped (worse yet if you have to interrupt what you're doing to receive it).
Whether I'd prefer this one to the NOC job I'm not sure. This job's schedule would make it completely impossible to reach any shop that's open on normal weekday business hours so that's a downside, I could only get to my usual auto shop on Saturday mornings. I haven't heard back from the NOC job which suggests my odds of getting selected for that one are lower, the job post had a start date around the middle of the month but I let them know I could start on Monday if they'd signed me up during the week and they seemed interested in that.
I was at my wits end and one day I finally started getting interviews and got a few job offers as you might have seen in my other thread. I ended up taking the work from home offer as it really hit all my needs and some of my wants. Over 200 applications I put out there.
I have a few more interviews lined up for some more lucrative jobs so we'll see where those take me.
I will say I was being courted hard by a start up. Interviewed with an executive board member and the CEO. Things went really well and they laid an offer out on the table at the end of it that would have been life changing. Then I was ghosted, I couldn't even get a hold of the HR rep that facilitated the last two rounds of interviews. I ended up calling the head hunter that initially reached out to me for the position and he was like "they decided to go with their other candidate." Like cool, how hard is it to tell someone that?
I also interviewed with a small company similar to a Deloitte or KPMG. The role was for an information security auditor position. I get through the first round of interviews, second round, I get hammered by this guy about the inner workings of AWS (nowhere in the job posting is it mentioned that cloud or AWS knowledge/expertise is required). He laments me in the most condescending manner about wasting his time and I fired back. "Hey, if this is what you're looking for, put it in the job posting. It's obvious you want someone with two different sets of skills and you're only going to pay them for one. So good luck with that."
SV reX said:In reply to GameboyRMH :
The silver lining is that it is always easier to find a job when you have a job. If you get it, perhaps it will be a stepping stone to something better.
Facts. Once I accepted a position, things started rolling for me.
I also got asked to go back to active duty with a branch that would put boots on the moon. I would also get to pick my duty location. Super lucrative considering that pay and benefits at my rank is hard to match on the private sector side and i would be close to the kids.
Active duty is attractive. I loved my active time and still enjoy my AT days at the base.
calteg said:Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:Only just seen this thread, I will have to catch up on some of what's going on.
I was laid off, over the phone, while visiting family in the UK, December 28th last year. I've been tailoring and applying for jobs since the first week in January. Total so far, 136 applications sent in. Probably six or more interviews with recruiters, Five HR interviews with companies, seven with engineers/managers, and still nothing. I know some of the positions I've applied for are just harvesting for resumes. There's one new(ish) OEM who's been advertising the same positions in rotation for about 2 years now, and to my knowledge (from people in the company) they are probably a year away from interviewing and hiring. I'm also sure my age and experience is now counting against me. Several positions I've talked to a recruiter and discussed 'yes I may seem over qualified, but I am genuinely interested in the position'. I tell them to look at my employment record, I'm not a job or position jumper. They make all the right sounds, but as soon as the actual companies see my resume, I'm sure they think 'this guy wont stay around, look at all this experience'. At this point I really need something with health insurance ASAP.
Probably time to extensively trim your resume. It's illegal for them to ask your age, but if your resume has 25+ years of experience, it's easy for them to draw conclusions. Tailor your resume so it's more difficult for them and more advantageous for you
I forgot I posted here!
Calteg, I've heard that from a number of people, but I have concerns about that, and I'd love the hives mind on it, especially if there are HR people here.
My issue with cutting down my resume is that, while they can't ask your age directly, the first thing I do (did?) when I received a resume was check the person's LinkedIn profile. The first thing you will see there is a (five year old now) pic of a gray haired middle aged guy. Also, my experience is right there. Additionally, some of the experience from over 30 years ago, is relative to many of the positions. I am a firm believer in a two page resume. Longer than two pages has about five seconds to grab my attention with something really good, or it's tossed. So my resume is two pages, but I can't fit everything in by a long shot. I was on the phone with an HR person the other day for a pre-screen interview, and I added that I'd spent 9 months living in Hermosillo Mexico on launch, plus dozens of visits to a plant in Nuevo Laredo, and customers around Mexico City. In total they are very small parts of my career, and not worth the space on my resume. But it was a big plus for her, and helped me get to the next stage. So I'm concerned that cutting more will exacerbate the issue.
The other thing is, it would seem strange if an Engineering Director's resume started too recently, or that I graduated with my Masters in 1990 but didn't list experience until this century. Now, I'm not necessarily against it, but I don't know how to do it correctly and not make the situation worse.
The other thing I'd like advice on is how fundamentally to say the following in a cover letter or contacting HR etc.:
"Yes, I was an Engineering Director who's achieved a, b, and c. But right now I need a job and would be happy to step back to a less stressful position. No, I'm not going to leave as soon as I get a better job, please look at my work history, I don't jump around." And it's true. Sure, if I got a basic entry level job I'd want to find something better. But right now I'll take a 25-30% pay cut for a job and health care and be happy. I'm past raising kids and want a decent work life balance where I can help guide and mentor teams and or work in a customer facing position where communication is key. In reality I'm a max of 10 years from retirement, and if this had happened in five years time, I'd have just retired early and got a job at a hardware store or similar to cover health care until Medicaid.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:The other thing I'd like advice on is how fundamentally to say the following in a cover letter or contacting HR etc.:
"Yes, I was an Engineering Director who's achieved a, b, and c. But right now I need a job and would be happy to step back to a less stressful position. No, I'm not going to leave as soon as I get a better job, please look at my work history, I don't jump around." And it's true. Sure, if I got a basic entry level job I'd want to find something better. But right now I'll take a 25-30% pay cut for a job and health care and be happy. I'm past raising kids and want a decent work life balance where I can help guide and mentor teams and or work in a customer facing position where communication is key. In reality I'm a max of 10 years from retirement, and if this had happened in five years time, I'd have just retired early and got a job at a hardware store or similar to cover health care until Medicaid.
Note that I'm not HR or anything adjacent, but I would try to phrase that intentional/positive instead of a negative as you have it (e.g., I'll take a 25% pay cut for a job w/ health care and be happy.").
Perhaps something like "After achieving A, B, and C in previous roles as an Engineering Director, I'm particularly interested in long term team-building positions where I can guide and foster the kind of drive, innovation, and communications that the next generation needs to flourish in the modern landscape."
I don't know if i phrased it well, but basically, "I specifically want to be in a support role that just helps teams succeed." It also highlights that you WERE an Engineering Director, but now you want to focus on building the people & teams into Engineering Directors.
In reply to WonkoTheSane :
Thanks. Obviously I would never actually send something satubg my version! I do very much ap[preciate your feedback. It's the best I've had asking different people so far. I love the sentiment of your last paragraph, I will be using something similar.
Found out that the delivery job is actually driving for Amazon, so I nope'd the heck out of that one.
I also applied for a corporate IT job with regular hours and a similar commute, found a couple of mechanic's assistant jobs (including one I applied to many months ago that's been posted up again), a remote data entry job, and a remote full-stack web dev job I can apply to.
In "grass isn't always greener" news:
My immediate director just took a massive pay cut to jump to a less stressful sister product. He's been burned out for about a year.
His boss was given a "promotion" last month, overseeing multiple lines of business. This month he's announced his "retirement" at the ripe old age of 55. He certainly makes good money, perhaps he's been living frugally, but I'm guessing the stress is getting to him as well.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to WonkoTheSane :
Thanks. Obviously I would never actually send something satubg my version! I do very much ap[preciate your feedback. It's the best I've had asking different people so far. I love the sentiment of your last paragraph, I will be using something similar.
Yeah, I didn't assume you'd send what you posted :)
But I was just highlighting that by asking the question you were leading the witness in a negative direction, which is so easy to do.
Glad you liked it!
GameboyRMH said:Found out that the delivery job is actually driving for Amazon, so I nope'd the heck out of that one.
....
I don't understand.
Why the immediate nope? I thought you said the money was good & commute reasonable ?
In reply to Indy - Guy :
Commute was good, money was nothing special, a little better than the NOC job but only because it involved a lot more hours (5x10+ vs. 4x12/3x12 rotation) and the overtime pay that comes with it. And knowing it's driving for Amazon which, by all reports and what I've personally witnessed, forces its drivers to do reckless things and find creative and undignified ways to sneak in bathroom breaks to stay on schedule, that means it severely fails my #4 requirement on top of not doing great on #2.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
I don't know how much of that is internet lore vs. reality. Of all the different Amazon drivers who have delivered to our house, they all seen to be in a reasonable state of cheer / happiness. Or at least I've never seen one and thought to myself, Wow, they look miserable.
Indy - Guy said:GameboyRMH said:Found out that the delivery job is actually driving for Amazon, so I nope'd the heck out of that one.
....
I don't understand.
Why the immediate nope? I thought you said the money was good & commute reasonable ?
Because it's "stupendously difficult to get jobs these days". It's not his fault though.
In reply to Indy - Guy :
I've personally seen them parking in unsafe places, dashing across traffic and reversing at high speeds. I've seen videos of them driving on sidewalks, cutting across yards, and taking "creative bathroom breaks." I've only got a good look at their faces IRL a couple times and I wouldn't say I've ever seen one that looks happy, I think the most generous description I could give of their expression might be "focused." There have been too many class-action lawsuits filed by drivers in multiple jurisdictions against Amazon for it to just be Internet lore, this article is worth a read: https://www.cpr.org/2023/05/23/amazon-lawsuit-delivery-drivers-quotas/
In reply to Steve_Jones :
It's extremely hard to find half-decent jobs. Or the jobs available are just far worse than even a few years ago. Of the two I've got interviews for after sending out 60+ carefully targeted applications, both have remarkably low pay and difficult schedules and one might also be the most infamously terrible job in North America right now.
The level of job-hunting difficulty I've had doesn't seem like it should be possible without, say, being a famous criminal. Or if you believe in karma, maybe a person could find themself in such a situation as a cosmic punishment for denying that the problem is real and mocking somebody else who's being affected by it, after being presented with good evidence that it's a real and widespread problem. I didn't do that and I don't believe in karma though.
Indy - Guy said:In reply to GameboyRMH :
I don't know how much of that is internet lore vs. reality. Of all the different Amazon drivers who have delivered to our house, they all seen to be in a reasonable state of cheer / happiness. Or at least I've never seen one and thought to myself, Wow, they look miserable.
Shoot not the ones I had in the panhandle, they would jump out of the truck, throw my packages, take pictures while the packages in midair, yeet back into the truck, and speed off.
I remember waiting 4-6 weeks to get car parts when the internet was still young and I'd place an order for something online. Man how we are spoiled these days.
I did Uber Eats for a while, I was hustling just to make a couple extra hundred a month, the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. Between maintenance, gas, etc, gains were minimal for time spent driving all over.
docwyte said:Active duty is attractive. I loved my active time and still enjoy my AT days at the base.
Yea, I'm really considering it. I'm up for promotion in January and that would transfer over as well. I'm doing the income analysis compared to the offer I just got. Gross income on paper is less but with tax free BAH and BAS, net income is more by $2k a month almost. That's accounting for the difference in healthcare, 401k contributions, taxes, etc.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
I don't think you recognize just how much easier it is to get a job when you already have one.
No one said you'd have to work for Amazon (or anyone) for very long.
Employers get massive quantities of applications for job postings. In the old days they'd put a job posting in the local newspaper and get a dozen applicants. Now with automated systems they get hundreds and hundreds of applications, and most of them are extremely poor quality. It's massive overload, and employers can't handle it.
When you are unemployed, the message you send to employers are that you are unemployable. You are tainted goods. There is something wrong, and they'd rather not berkeley with it. They don't have to... there's plenty of fish in the sea.
The longer you are unemployed, the stronger the sense is that the problem is YOU. You are playing directly into this scenario.
Get a job. Get ANY job. Deliver pizzas. Scrub toilets. ANYTHING.
AFTER you have a job, THEN you can worry about having a better job.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Go spend some time in a precast concrete factory, or on a garbage truck, or for a septic crew. You'll be begging for the paycut that Amazon offers.
I think you haven't worked enough E36 M3ty jobs to appreciate how unE36 M3ty other jobs are.
Hell, at least here, you could be making $15/hour flipping burgers at Burger King, which is more than the $0/hour you're making bitching about "lost opportunities".
And that's coming from a guy who hasn't punched a time clock since 2011, not the hundred thousandaires and millionaires that are telling you to buckle down
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