Fundamentalists are just plain embarrassing

Johnboyjjb wrote: I will take a stand and say that I think macro evolution is a crock of crap. I disagree with a lot in this article but the view that previous posters have taken isn't very broad either. I purport that neither evolution nor creation can be proven nor dis-proven and belief in either takes faith. Both sides have been proven to bend the truth in attempting to prove their side right. Both sides do not follow the scientific theory; you propose a hypothesis and then try to disprove it as true. They both started with a "truth" and tried to build up the evidence to support their view, ignoring countering views. I have looked at available research and made my decision. “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it” You can apply that where you see fit.

Evolution doesn't bend the truth it takes the known truth and presents it with updates as new data comes in. Creation ism has no truth at all and never updates.

I wish we just summarize the theory of evolution as the following: "What you see in modern times is a succession of all organisms that survived long enough to bang."

The problem is humans like nice, tidy answers to questions they don't understand. When they don't like or can't find the answer, they make E36 M3 up... Isolation doesn't help.

Some years ago I lost all hope this will ever really change, so I'm just along for the ride for now.

Nice, tidy answer:

Johnboyjjb wrote: I will take a stand and say that I think macro evolution is a crock of crap. I disagree with a lot in this article but the view that previous posters have taken isn't very broad either. I purport that neither evolution nor creation can be proven nor dis-proven and belief in either takes faith. Both sides have been proven to bend the truth in attempting to prove their side right. Both sides do not follow the scientific theory; you propose a hypothesis and then try to disprove it as true. They both started with a "truth" and tried to build up the evidence to support their view, ignoring countering views. I have looked at available research and made my decision. “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it” You can apply that where you see fit.

Hmmmm....there's a lot of evidence for macro-evolution, especially when compared to creationism. I'm a deist, btw.

"The Selfish Gene" is a good book, but the title is misleading to those that haven't actually read the book.

Having been briefly subjected to an ACE curriculum during my childhood I can say that this is the least of their problems.

JThw8 wrote: Having been briefly subjected to an ACE curriculum during my childhood I can say that this is the least of their problems.

Well when you start making E36 M3 up, its hard to stop...

My inlaws have a great kids book that explains how dinosaurs were on the Ark. They were small at the time because they were young and hadn't grown to full size yet. I forget what happened to them after the flood, I think I laughed so hard I peed myself. But that's just me.

Anti-stance wrote:

JThw8 wrote: Having been briefly subjected to an ACE curriculum during my childhood I can say that this is the least of their problems.

Well when you start making E36 M3 up, its hard to stop...

That holds true for everyone.

Anti-stance wrote:

JThw8 wrote: Having been briefly subjected to an ACE curriculum during my childhood I can say that this is the least of their problems.

Well when you start making E36 M3 up, its hard to stop...

To be honest its not the made up or not, and maybe things have changed but it was a "work at your own pace, on your own, system" no real teachers, just "moderators" You got the books, you read them you tested on them. I was in "9th grade" when I was transitioned to a traditional school and back to the 4th grade where I belonged. That's not to say I didn't learn things at a 9th grade level but not enough to have survived if was thrown into the 9th grade at a traditional school.

In reply to JThw8:

That was just my terrible attempt at wit.

So basically its home schooling but the test grades go in the wrong direction if using public schools as the bar.

Johnboyjjb wrote: I will take a stand and say that I think macro evolution is a crock of crap. I disagree with a lot in this article but the view that previous posters have taken isn't very broad either.

Doesn't need to be so "broad". The "theory" of gravity vs. the roof of a tall building, etc.

Johnboyjjb wrote: I purport that neither evolution nor creation can be proven nor dis-proven and belief in either takes faith. Both sides have been proven to bend the truth in attempting to prove their side right. Both sides do not follow the scientific theory; you propose a hypothesis and then try to disprove it as true. They both started with a "truth" and tried to build up the evidence to support their view, ignoring countering views. I have looked at available research and made my decision.

I disagree. When confronted by evidence that contradicts "Intelligent Design", there's not much of a change in the claims of the people who support the hypothesis, even when it comes from someone who actually shares their belief in god/s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg&feature=player_embedded

Johnboyjjb wrote: “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it” You can apply that where you see fit.

I'm hoping you will research the original source of that quote.

We made it a couple weeks since the flurry of locked threads. Hoping this one stays on track and civil or better yet dies away in a process somewhat similar to natural selection. There are better threads out there that won't get us in trouble with Margie.

Ian F wrote: The problem is humans like nice, tidy answers to questions they don't understand. When they don't like or can't find the answer, they make E36 M3 up... Isolation doesn't help. Some years ago I lost all hope this will ever really change, so I'm just along for the ride for now.

Yeah, I'm a dumbass. Problem is, I'm just as much of a humanist as I am an atheist..so I just can't let it go. Apologies in advance if my comments flounder the thread!

friedgreencorrado wrote: I'm hoping you will research the original source of that quote.

Actually, I think I'll just back out now. I've got plenty of other forums to talk about this kind of stuff..I just thought the Che-Chimp pic was cool enough to hotlink.

friedgreencorrado wrote: Actually, I think I'll just back out now. I've got plenty of other forums to talk about this kind of stuff..I just thought the Che-Chimp pic was cool enough to hotlink.

+1. same here

Deniers can go read Hovind. I will go read Gould. It doesn't mean we cannot spin wrenches together.

Done with this thread...don't want the ban hammer aimed my way

Bob Costas

I was reading an article on a mosque that was built recently (I forget where now) but they could not get a CO because the people are against it. One of the comments was that they felt that they did not want a religion in their neighborhood that had a "Well known polictical agenda"

I could only shake my head and wonder if the writer had realised what kind of a political agenda the right wing christian nuts have

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Bob Costas

Nah, you're not gonna get me to "decloak" that easily. I've put damn near 20yrs into keeping my atheism stuff & my car stuff separate while discussing either of them online. Having different nyms for each avenue of participation seems to have done the trick. It should actually be a tribute to the folks monitoring the GRM off topic site that I've been tempted to express my real feelings about stuff like this with my "car guy" nym in the first place. I guess I'm kind of "backwards" at the moment..I'm "out of the closet" IRL, but not so much on the internet. Except on Usenet or Reddit, of course.

Trust me, dude. I'll bet two Euros that nobody over here wants to have to put up with the trolls/stalkers I've managed to gather over on the places where I talk about atheism. There are plenty of "butthurt" little freaks that would have no problem at all chasing me over here if they knew my "other" nym (the one I use over here).

I'd end up under the patio if the staff had to spend all day deleting troll E36 M3 from their forums. And IMO, I'd deserve it.

YMMV.

No need to keep your love for cars and your religious beliefs separate

friedgreencorrado wrote: I'd end up under the patio if the staff had to spend all day deleting troll E36 M3 from their forums. And IMO, I'd deserve it. YMMV.

Same here... humans will either figure it out or die like so many species and civilizations before them. I've given up argueing about it.

friedgreencorrado wrote: Nah, you're not gonna get me to "decloak" that easily. I've put damn near 20yrs into keeping my atheism stuff & my car stuff separate while discussing either of them online. Having different nyms for each avenue of participation seems to have done the trick. It should actually be a tribute to the folks monitoring the GRM off topic site that I've been tempted to express my real feelings about stuff like this with my "car guy" nym in the first place. I guess I'm kind of "backwards" at the moment..I'm "out of the closet" IRL, but not so much on the internet. Except on Usenet or Reddit, of course. Trust me, dude. I'll bet two Euros that *nobody* over here wants to have to put up with the trolls/stalkers I've managed to gather over on the places where I talk about atheism. There are plenty of "butthurt" little freaks that would have no problem at all chasing me over here if they knew my "other" nym (the one I use over here). I'd end up under the patio if the staff had to spend all day deleting troll E36 M3 from their forums. And IMO, I'd deserve it. YMMV.

Trust me, I understand. I am a buddhist.. been so for 20+ years. You would not believe the number of people who felt it was their job to "Save" me from it

In reply to mad_machine:

Buddhist? Sweet. They don't have those here in Alabama. It sounds like a great religion, though. Seriously. If Jesus was alive today, he'd probably be a buddhist.

I hope you guys realize that the fundamentalists don't speak for other Christians. Even the Catholics don't believe in creationism anymore. Fundamentalists are particularly dogmatic, loud, and easy to pick on, so they get most of the press.