This might sound a little weird, but the last 18 months or so, I have gotten into Lego kits and also coloring books.
This might sound a little weird, but the last 18 months or so, I have gotten into Lego kits and also coloring books.
z31maniac said:This might sound a little weird, but the last 18 months or so, I have gotten into Lego kits and also coloring books.
Not weird at all! Constructive and artistic hobbies are one of the most effective ways of helping depression. There is an entire modality associated called Art Therapy that you can specialize in all the way to PhD.
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:z31maniac said:This might sound a little weird, but the last 18 months or so, I have gotten into Lego kits and also coloring books.
Not weird at all! Constructive and artistic hobbies are one of the most effective ways of helping depression. There is an entire modality associated called Art Therapy that you can specialize in all the way to PhD.
Yup. So many documented research studies that show one of the most effective methods of coping with and reducing depression is immersing oneself in cognitive thinking exercises. It makes total sense too- if you're thinking about completing a task, you have less time to contemplate your inner psyche, which is where things start to get a little haywire sometimes...
z31maniac said:Getting back into my hobbies. Hence why I'm looking for another project car. Meds and therapy have never helped me, not that self-medicating is a good option either (which I have done to my detriment as well). I've been to multiple therapists, never got anything from it, they all told me I was very self-aware, etc, yadda yadda yadda.
And all the multitude of different meds I've tried have had, ahem, negative side effects in the boudoir if you know what I mean.
I actually just finished up a long chat with an old friend, the happiest I've ever been was when I had a motorcycle. There is something very therapeutic about being on two wheels. I'm now considering getting another one. I haven't ridden since I had my nasty crash at Hallett and dealt with post-concussion syndrome for months after.
That's why they say you don't see a lot of motorcycles outside a psychiatrists/psychologist's office.
Obviously oversimplified, but if it is that simple for you, get a honda grom and go slow and fun.
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:z31maniac said:This might sound a little weird, but the last 18 months or so, I have gotten into Lego kits and also coloring books.
Not weird at all! Constructive and artistic hobbies are one of the most effective ways of helping depression. There is an entire modality associated called Art Therapy that you can specialize in all the way to PhD.
Thanks for that! That is definitely one of the things I miss about my current job. I never get my hands dirty.
My job at TWG, even though I was "just" the tech writer with a journalism degree, I still spent a lot of time on the floor with prototypes, doing testing, etc. Even at Ramsey Winch, it would be common to see me in dress shoes and slacks on the floor running durability tests on our products. Unfortunately, the money just isn't there like it is in the software/eCommerce world.
I suspect that's also part of my issues, chasing money vs fullfilment in a job. I grew up super poor, like parents got divorced I grew up in a trailer park in Oklahoma.....that kind of poor.
Teh E36 M3 said:That's why they say you don't see a lot of motorcycles outside a psychiatrists/psychologist's office.
Obviously oversimplified, but if it is that simple for you, get a honda grom and go slow and fun.
Or it could be men dealing with a stigma of mental health assistance.
A motorcycle doesn't hurt until it's actually being used as a replacement for real treatment.
Not tryin to argue, just don't like seeing the over-simplification.
z31maniac said:I actually just finished up a long chat with an old friend, the happiest I've ever been was when I had a motorcycle. There is something very therapeutic about being on two wheels. I'm now considering getting another one. I haven't ridden since I had my nasty crash at Hallett and dealt with post-concussion syndrome for months after.
We used to own a motorcycle dealership and I've been blessed to have owned many bikes over the years. The motorcycle that was the most fun was an old Suzuki DR350. Dual sport bikes are great because when you get tired of riding on the road where every SUV driver and BMW 3-series female driver texting is trying to kill you, there is a whole world of off-road waiting for you. With a mildly aggressive knobby tire, dirt roads and mountain trails are so peaceful to explore. I would take a backpack with snacks, water and a camera and go get lost for an afternoon. Oh how I long for those days..........
Another vote for fake it til you make it.
I sometime get seasonal depression but most of my problems are the mountain of stress I have to pull around at times.
I will say something that most people probably won't like but it's info that I think sometimes people need to hear: Don't revel in your depression or maybe "wallow" is a better way to put it. To some people their depression becomes a part of their lives to the point that they give it more strength. It's not to say that your mental wellbeing isn't important but some people ......revel in their depression. It's like the stoner that everything in their lives is about pot, not limited to that either obviously but hopefully I made my point.
Look at it as a mountain to overcome and conquer rather than who you are basically.
Ok so finally at a real keyboard and not my phone so wanted to add some more. Not medical advice clearly just my opinion.
First get your hormone levels checked. Cyclical depression can be tied to testosterone levels. How do I know this because my test levels at 35 were what a 95 year old mans would be. Secondary androgenic pituitary growth does not have the same ring but its what I had. TRT replacement for the last 5 years. I went from 215 lb's and 35%+ BF to 192 and 8% and I am 40 years old. It was disgusting how healthy I was eating before and not loosing weight. Taking the weight loss out I had the energy to get out of bed and do things. Its not determination to do things that got me up it was routine. IE make the bed, take a shower, just keep moving. I inject every 3.5 days and keep my levels just under super physiological which works best for me. Early on they had me on about 60% more to pick up the slack and to make me feel better immediately and it was like a light switch.
There are now genetic tests you can take to identify what anti depressant will work best. The first one I tried for two months did nothing, three years later we found out my body likely metabolizes that drug at like 1000% more then a normal human. I find the extended release anti depressants work better for me. I take them at night because it makes me tired.
The other thing that gets you is big setbacks, need to build up coping mechanisms for that. I ended up having localized seizers for a while after that uninsured idiot hit me head. 11 months to get back to where I was before. But without the drugs it would have been much much worse.
There are side effects of the drugs and some people get lucky and get less then others. I hate mine and its the number 1 reason I want off the pills but every time we titer back what I am taking it comes back and I remember just how bad I was. Helps to have your significant other keep track of you as well. The changes are small and incremental and since we live in our own bodies we don't see the chanes the way others around us do. Too close to the problem and all that.
Even a short motorcycle ride does wonders for my mood. Don't know why but it does good things for me. Thursday is supposed to be 60F in Detroit. I'm putting some miles on.
Recognizing that you are concerned about your mental health is a great first step. I would encourage you to find a professional therapist to talk to about it. Finding the right therapist might take some trial and error. Don't be afraid to fire a therapist if they don't fit BUT also be willing to be honest with them about what you are feeling/thinking. My PCP recommended one to me a few years ago. I saw her on and off when I was dealing with some concerns over the past few years and have actually been seeing her bi-monthly for the past few months. It helps to have that objective eye to give support and ask questions to make you think.
If they suggest medication, understand going in that it may not be a quick fix and it may need some dosage adjustment. I have a lifelong friend who is bipolar and is seasonally affected. He can not function off his meds. Period. But, there are effects of the medication that he fights and has, in the past, just stopped taking them to disastrous effects.
Anti-depressive medication can also be very difficult to stop taking. I have another friend who tried to get off her meds too quickly (again, due to unhappiness with perceived side effects) and the subsequent crash and effects almost cost her her career. Do the research about any prescribed medication and never hesitate to go back to the prescriber immediately with any concerns.
Like with physical health, you have to be your own advocate with your mental health. As others here have suggested, do some journaling, take stock of what you are eating, exercise you are getting, challenges you are facing. Having the data will help guide you forward and will assist with any counseling you do.
I'll throw in a plug for the GRM Chat. We may have one next week and they are a nice break from the day-to-day BS.
If it's cyclical, what starts the cycle?
If you can't answer that, the people around you might be able to.
If the people around you can't, I'd involve professionals.
For me it was seasonal but I didn't figure it out till I lived in a sunny area for a year.
Agreed on the motorcycle comments. Something about the attention and singularity of focus that riding demands can be almost meditative and has really done wonders for my mental health. That being said, there are certainly times when my head is just too clouded with other thoughts and emotions to devote the bandwidth that riding demands, and it's critical to your physical wellbeing to be able to recognize when that's happening and leave the bike in the garage instead.
Another thing that has really helped me over the years is learning to spot negative feedback loops in your thinking, challenge them with logic, and arrest the downward spiral that they cause before spinning out of control. "I failed at a thing...I ALWAYS fail at this thing...I SUCK at this thing and I'll NEVER be good at it...I can NEVER do ANYTHING right...I SUCK AT EVERYTHING AND MY LIFE IS A FAILURE." Those statements are demonstrably untrue, and you would probably never accept that sort of faulty logic in an argument from another person, so why accept it from yourself? Instead, learn to recognize when you're falling into that trap (when speaking in absolutes or globalizing, that's usually a pretty good sign) and challenge that internal dialogue with concrete facts. Instead of the above line of thinking: "Here is a time when I did that thing right so clearly I don't always fail...it was harder this time because xyz...I'm still not as good at the thing as I would like to be but I can see clear improvement in abc...I can't suck at everything because i know I'm really good at 1, 2, and 3...I'm actually pretty good at a lot of things and often challenge myself, failure is sometimes the inevitable result of trying new and difficult things, not everyone is willing to even try this thing and therefore I definitely don't suck, so here's what I can do better next time and I'm going to try again."
Sidewayze said:+1 to mountain biking. And you live in an awesome place for it. Since it's winter try a fatbike.
It's fun, the technical aspects help to focus your thoughts, it gets you outside, and it can be done on your schedule without much prep. I would actually say it saved my life and has kept doing so for close to 25 years.
And talking to others who are familiar with the black dog is not a bad thing.
I'm going to expand on that and suggest whatever puts you in a "flow state". Something that occupies all of your attention when you're doing it.
Mountain biking definitely does that to me, there's no room in my head for anything else when I'm doing it. So does driving a rally stage but that's a little harder to arrange :) Autocrossing too. Playing tennis with a friend? Maybe, I don't play tennis :) I also get there when I'm solving a difficult programming problem or debugging some sort of electronic doodad. But that's the idea. Turn off what's in your head for a while by focusing deeply on something else. If you get some exercise and sunshine at the same time, bonus.
And good luck.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:Teh E36 M3 said:That's why they say you don't see a lot of motorcycles outside a psychiatrists/psychologist's office.
Obviously oversimplified, but if it is that simple for you, get a honda grom and go slow and fun.
Or it could be men dealing with a stigma of mental health assistance.
A motorcycle doesn't hurt until it's actually being used as a replacement for real treatment.
Not tryin to argue, just don't like seeing the over-simplification.
Definitely an over-simplification. Me on a street motorcycle would be a recipe for disaster. If I bought a motorcycle I'd be dead within a year. There's a reason why the most powerful car I own has 200 HP.
US medical insurance can cause its own form of depression.
Otherwise, I'm another mountain biker. Between that and playing guitar, it mostly keeps the demons sedated.
In reply to SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) :
Im happy you brought this up...not because you're dealing with it, but because you value the opinions of the people on this forum and are willing to try and change your current state.
I live in NC, far away from my family in CT and a lot of times have nobody to talk to about it, so I have had to figure a lot out. I have been wrestling with depression and pretty severe ADHD my entire life, both keeping me from reaching my potential in various aspects of life, because both team up and lead to being frozen/stuck...far worse than procrastination, sometimes I just cant move. However, recently I have been doing a lot of work when I recognize it happening, before it goes too far down the rabbit hole. Its two things for me;
The first one, when I notice Im getting stuck, I tell myself to get up, not just to get up, but I give myself 3 seconds...literally a countdown like a rocket. 3...2..1 get your ass up. Ok, Im up, thats one step closer to doing something and one step further from being stuck. Then again for the next action, MAKE yourself move, one step at a time. I have hobbies, I was an elite cyclist and still ride, but if I cant get to the activity, then the activity does me no good. Get up
For the second one, after your day, write down ONE thing you were grateful for that day. Its easy to focus on how bad traffic was, how bad the dogs are annoying you or your tired. Instead, what if you physically wrote down that you were really excited you rode your bike for 30 min? That makes you smile a little, reminisce about the fun you had, it brings up other memories and thoughts. If youre married or have a partner, dont just tell them (thats fine too) but write it down, what made you happy today? I would actually love to see you on here everyday, tell us what youre thankful for everyday if you want, Id love to read about it.
Finally, its ok. Its not the end of the world. Getting off socail media changed my life, no medications, no therapy...run as fast as you can from social media. We're here for you and anyone else that needs it. Feel free to send me a message if you want to chat further. Have a super awesome rest of your day.
JOHN
Most of my problems have come from dealing with toxic family and "friends". The friends problem is simple to fix. I don't hang out with anyone who has a negative attitude. I've cut off a few that I just couldn't stand listening to anymore. Family has been harder to completely cut off, but we minimize the time that we spend with portions of both of our families. The sad part is that some members of the family just don't see the problem or are afraid to acknowledge it. They constantly try to make it out like it's our problem. "If you would just X things would be better" or "That's just they way they are". With certain members of the family we've tried over and over and the result is always the same.
I went through some pretty severe depression a couple of years ago. I was also moody as hell and would fly off the handle for stupid things because of the stress I was under. Setup an appointment with a therapist (not a doctor). First meeting, I told her I had no real idea why I was there, but knew I needed help. I'm very much the type "I can do it myself" so just going was a big step.
Saw her for about six months until she went private practice (i.e. no more insurance) and she helped me a lot. I still get depressed and stressed, but am able to handle it better these days. After seeing her, I realized I just needed someone to talk to. I posted a rant here a few years back that was long and rambling and someone said it was good to get it out and it's called journaling. Talking to the therapist was an extension of that. She offered little nudges here and there of things I could do, but most of the time, it was just me talking through my issues and unpacking them to see that each one is small and can be handled. It was also some positive reinforcement that the things I was dealing with were uncommon and would cripple most people, so it's OK to say I needed help. I did try a depression medicine (I can't recall what), but it ended up making me a zombie that just drooled in my chair on the weekends. Talking, working through issues, unpacking stuff helped much more than meds could.
Everyone is different. Everyone has different things that affect them and how they handle it. Depression comes in many forms. Seeking help from a pro (i.e. no judgement to let you talk/vent/cry/yell/scream/etc) can be a good way to get through it.
Good luck.
-Rob
Sometimes a long ride on a motorcycle to a funky out of the way cafe is just what the doctor ordered. It gets you away from everything and allows you to just think for a while.
Amazing crowd of people, GRM. Thank you, Suddards!!
The last two years have been universally mentally taxing. I have a son with bad ADHD/OCD+depression and another son with ADHD. The latter found a helpful medication and it's been a godsend. The first has tried everything but the kitchen sink and is still struggling every day. I don't have a clue how to help him aside from love and trying to keep him busy with outdoor activities. That's tough when you have a full time job.
We're about eight grand out of pocket on psychiatrists and psychologist and functional medicine this year. There has been some help among them but.. berkeley our health care system.
When my oldest was at his lowest of lows the depression also got me. I am still shocked at how easy it was to go from functional and good.. to simply bad. I talked to my doc and tried a couple SSRI meds and they amplified the stress. I have mostly employed the "fake it till you make it" method and am fortunate to be in a better place right now.
A helpful read for me was a book called Lost Connections: Why You're Depressed and How to Find Hope.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1632868318
Spoiler: you need other people - going after it alone ain't gonna help. To all of you. Hang in there. Fake it if you have to.
I found inner peace by adopting this attitude: "I usually can't control what is happening around me, I can only control my reaction to it".
Its one of those Stoic attitudes from Marcus Aurelius' Meditations.
And one wise person told me that depression is repressed rage. If you have unresolved anger you just can't forgive, and are powerless to change, your body reacts with depression. "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us".
Forgiveness is a gift you give to yourself. You don't have to ever trust the person who wronged you, but if you hold on to the anger and depression you are letting them live rent free in your head.
I'm absolutely not an expert, but I'm getting my Master's in Clinical Counseling. I don't mention that as a preface to offering clinical advice, only to say that the reason I'm pursuing that goal is partially because I'm tired of the stigma of mental health being "less-than" physical health. I applaud the fact that you spoke up and shared. That, alone, is a beautiful thing.
A few things that helped me:
- ditch the substances/distractions. I'm a hypocrite sometimes on this, but no alcohol, no binge eating, no meth, no hookers... whatever you might be doing to cover for anything. My big thing was drinking. I was so stressed with my divorce, my work, my finances, that I couldn't sleep because my mind was constantly having conversations with itself. Having a drink or 8 every night let me fall asleep while shutting up those voices. Not suggesting that is your vice, just relating a story. Your vice might be bowling, or TV, or internet. For every non-productive habit you have, choose a few and replace them with productive habits. Tonight I chose to spend 30 minutes taking a drive instead of watching TV.
- make a super-simple routine. It doesn't matter how insignificant or small it is, it can have a big impact. Include things you do everyday anyway. My list included brush teeth, make bed, shower, eat breakfast (I usually skip that), meditate (I hate it but it works), and contact a friend. That last one could mean text, phone, email, FB, whatever. Every day I picked someone I knew and just said something like "thinking about you, have a nice day." During times when I didn't really have any people to contact directly I posted on FB something like "not sure who needs to hear this, but you'll be great today." Maybe not your flavor, but I find that when I'm down, lifting someone up often brings big dividends and interest.
- Give yourself grace. If you make plans for all of the above stuff and you do half of one single thing on the list, you are a rockstar. If you forget to brush your teeth and the bed doesn't get made, who gives a E36 M3? You still got a shower and ate breakfast.
- Find a therapist. This is controversial because mental healthcare is not universally insured. ACA helped by requiring insurance providers to provide mental health coverage, but it's not always great. I have been seeing a therapist since October. and my insurance covered all of it until [strangely coincidentally] today I received a bill for a copay of $75. Not sure how long I'm willing to pay that which is ridiculously sad. Hard to think that if I need a $450,000 liver transplant it's covered, but if I need a $150 mental health visit, I only have 10 free visits before I have to pay half of it.
We may not be pros here, but you can talk to us.
jharry3 said:I found inner peace by adopting this attitude: "I usually can't control what is happening around me, I can only control my reaction to it".
Its one of those Stoic attitudes from Marcus Aurelius' Meditations.
And one wise person told me that depression is repressed rage. If you have unresolved anger you just can't forgive, and are powerless to change, your body reacts with depression. "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us".
Forgiveness is a gift you give to yourself. You don't have to ever trust the person who wronged you, but if you hold on to the anger and depression you are letting them live rent free in your head.
Quoted for truth.
I've been fighting diagnosed clinical depression for last 5-6 years. Here's what's helped me substantially. YMMV.
- 10mg daily of Lexipro (life saver)
- Leaving the career that was partly the cause of the depression and entering a new career that is much more enjoyable (p.s. still need to change my no-longer-fitting username)
- Rediscovering my love of fast cars and wrenching (I got into HPDE about 6 yrs ago partly to fight depression - helped a lot)
All that said, it never fully goes away. It's more like chronic high-blood pressure - something to manage. But the steps above have definitely made the fight much, much more manageable.
jharry3 said:I found inner peace by adopting this attitude: "I usually can't control what is happening around me, I can only control my reaction to it".
Its one of those Stoic attitudes from Marcus Aurelius' Meditations.
And one wise person told me that depression is repressed rage. If you have unresolved anger you just can't forgive, and are powerless to change, your body reacts with depression. "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us".
Forgiveness is a gift you give to yourself. You don't have to ever trust the person who wronged you, but if you hold on to the anger and depression you are letting them live rent free in your head.
I don't know, having anger towards people that wrong you and not forgiving is more like "learning" in my mind.
I'm also a huge believer in having the fire of anger warm you but never consume you
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