Goodnight Baltimore!

Dr. Hess wrote: This is an interesting background story on Baltimore. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-30/baltimore-microcosm-america

If you enjoyed that article which was an interview with David Simon, writter of HBO's The Wire, then you really owe it to yourself to see the whole 5 season of the show. You can currently watch it through Amazon Prime.
I personally, just finished watching the whole series. It really is good TV.
All that I am thinking and seeing about Baltimore right now, I am seeing through the characters eyes of the show or what I think their perception of the whole situation would be.

The show itself presents some pretty systematic abuse by the officers as well as a look at the whole city (inner-city) culture.
Sure, the show is fiction but what Simon wrote was what he saw in his experience as a Baltimore news reporter.

PS: the TV show was 10 years ago but the problems seem to be the same.

I should ask those of you that are from Baltimore area, "did The Wire seem to be an honest portrayal of the city, the Baltimore police and the local politics?"

In reply to HiTempguy:

no, one, the driver of the van, has been charged with 2nd degree homicide, 4 of the others with manslaughter.

Under Maryland law if you accompany someone in the preparation, planning, execution, conspiracy or cover up of a homicide then you can be charged with it, even if you weren't the person to "pulled the trigger". For example if you and I go into a liquor store, you're in the back grabbing bottles for us to enjoy later, while I'm sticking a gun in the face of the cashier and getting money out of the drawer, and I decide to waste the clerk, you're catching murder charges with me, even though you just were along to grab some drinks and split the cash up later and the plan was never to include killing the clerk. Our driver, Wally, who's chilling out in the car, ready to roll us through the cut and home, he's catching a murder charge as well, due to the reasons outlined above.

It would've been interesting, from a legal perspective (and terrible in every other way), what would've happened had a homeless person been taking shelter in one of the building that was burned Monday night. Under Maryland law every rioter involved could've received murder charges as they were in some way taking part in the actions that caused the death.

They'll never take me alive.

Dr. Hess wrote: This is an interesting background story on Baltimore. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-30/baltimore-microcosm-america

Well written article. I've worked under Martin O as governor. Remember this article when he runs for President.

HiTempguy wrote:

kazoospec wrote: It won't work. These officers will turn themselves in together, with bail in hand and a coordinated team of big $ lawyers. The case will fall apart or end up with a not guilty and things will only get worse. (See, for example, the Zimmerman/Martin case) Given the direction they've taken this thing, I certainly hope they have something solid to back this up.

6 people have been charged with murder. While I agree with your assessment, I disagree that it is a good thing. When was the last time you saw SIX people charged in one crime, specifically murder? That is what makes this seem grab-bag; them charging anyone and everyone. It almost makes it seem like its not the police that are corrupt, but the politicians... say it ain't so!

Pretty sure I didn't say it was a good thing. Other than that, carry on!

foxtrapper wrote:

Dr. Hess wrote: This is an interesting background story on Baltimore. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-30/baltimore-microcosm-america

Well written article. I've worked under Martin O as governor. Remember this article when he runs for President.

I have a number of friends and family members who live in Baltimore. I agree with both the article and foxtrapper.

Everything I know about Baltimore came from watching The Wire so, naturally, I liked the article.

I had no idea that they were talking about some kind of TV show. I don't get HBO or cable, for that matter. I wondered what he was getting at regarding getting cops to talk to TV show writers and draw stuff on napkins but not reporters. Huh.

Man, not to flounder this, but is that the best the the Democrat party can put up? A mass murdering woman on the payroll of foreign governments and this Martin O guy? We are so screwed.

Boost_Crazy wrote: In reply to yupididit: Were there any other factors which may have been in play when you had negative interactions? Not anything you did, but things that might have caught the attention of the police. While I don't doubt that skin color can be a factor, I'd be suprised if it was the only one, or the primary factor. How you were dressed, what you were driving, who you were with, and the time and place are all factors on how you are perceived. Your reaction to the police is also a big determining factor of how the experience goes. That applies no matter your skin color. Now I understand that most of those things shouldn't matter, but they do, and I don't think it's fair to put race at the top of the list if there are other factors at play. Now, if none of those things applied, and you were hassled by the police for no reason whatsoever, that is not acceptable.

A post I made on another forum:

Hah I'm i 26 and live in a very nice neighborhood. I pay MY bills and dont break the law. It still puzzles me how often I get stopped by the police at night in my own neighborhood. I could be driving or going running but it happens way too often. I've asked some of the white runners who run through my neighbood how often they've been stopped. Zero hahaha. I cant help but to laugh at that. Not going to count the times I've been pulled over and asked, "is this your car" instead of "lisence and registration". I figure myself to be a good citizen. I work, I'm educated, I volunteer, and I dont bother anyone. Interesting what some whites say to me. "James you're not a black black guy. You're more white than black". I always respond with, "what do you mean? If I was a black black guy then would that be better or worse". Never understood that. I'm a white black guy. Haha funny. Or when they tell me most black guys aren't like me. But then I tell them how all of my black male friends are responsible good people with graduate degrees and the one's who are not college educated or successful are the nicest people in the world. Ha love it. But then again these are the same whites who tell me racism doesn't exist or no longer effects blacks or anyone for that matter.

Back when I had the Rolla (4ag 20 valve AE92), I would get followed or pulled over. You just can't quiet a 4ag 20v with a 2-1/4" exhaust. Nail it just a tad and if there's a PoPo hiding somewhere that you didn't see, they're gonna be right there. I've had them follow me all the way into the work parking lot then continue on when, like Datsun1500 sez, they weren't expecting an "old white guy." They were probably expecting a "young white guy" if it comes down to it, so it isn't just race. Got stopped once for "not using a turn signal when you made that right turn." Yeah, I might have got on it a bit before that and not seen him hiding, but I never was really speeding. Just zero to "almost" speeding in a rather short time. And then there's the motorcycles. Man, before the yuppies moved into the scene, riding a Harley was reason enough to stop you. Been followed through bum-berkeley towns by the PoPo, stopped, frisked, searched in Houston, etc., for riding a Harley. Anyway, I guess my point is that they pick on anyone they can, not just because of your color, but any excuse is a good one.

Oh, hey, also remember that last black man shot dead in the back while he was running away? He was driving a Mercedes and it wasn't his car.

seattle anti-capitalism protest live footage

http://www.komonews.com/live

In reply to Datsun1500:

Well, I will say, German with tinted windows is normally a drug dealers car in Balmer.

Speaking of, Ol Freddie might have been a snitch. You don't stay out of jail on that many narcotics charges, some or all of which are bound to be heroin, unless you're giving something up.

Dr. Hess wrote: Man, not to flounder this, but is that the best the the Democrat party can put up? A mass murdering woman on the payroll of foreign governments and this Martin O guy? We are so screwed.

Don't forget the almost 80 year old Socialist.

I go out of my way to tell people why O'Malley is a bad idea.

yupididit wrote:

Boost_Crazy wrote: In reply to yupididit: Were there any other factors which may have been in play when you had negative interactions? Not anything you did, but things that might have caught the attention of the police. While I don't doubt that skin color can be a factor, I'd be suprised if it was the only one, or the primary factor. How you were dressed, what you were driving, who you were with, and the time and place are all factors on how you are perceived. Your reaction to the police is also a big determining factor of how the experience goes. That applies no matter your skin color. Now I understand that most of those things shouldn't matter, but they do, and I don't think it's fair to put race at the top of the list if there are other factors at play. Now, if none of those things applied, and you were hassled by the police for no reason whatsoever, that is not acceptable.

A post I made on another forum: Hah I'm i 26 and live in a very nice neighborhood. I pay MY bills and dont break the law. It still puzzles me how often I get stopped by the police at night in my own neighborhood. I could be driving or going running but it happens way too often. I've asked some of the white runners who run through my neighbood how often they've been stopped. Zero hahaha. I cant help but to laugh at that. Not going to count the times I've been pulled over and asked, "is this your car" instead of "lisence and registration". I figure myself to be a good citizen. I work, I'm educated, I volunteer, and I dont bother anyone. Interesting what some whites say to me. "James you're not a black black guy. You're more white than black". I always respond with, "what do you mean? If I was a black black guy then would that be better or worse". Never understood that. I'm a white black guy. Haha funny. Or when they tell me most black guys aren't like me. But then I tell them how all of my black male friends are responsible good people with graduate degrees and the one's who are not college educated or successful are the nicest people in the world. Ha love it. But then again these are the same whites who tell me racism doesn't exist or no longer effects blacks or anyone for that matter.

Just wanted to quote this here.....

Dr. Hess wrote: Back when I had the Rolla (4ag 20 valve AE92), I would get followed or pulled over. You just can't quiet a 4ag 20v with a 2-1/4" exhaust. Nail it just a tad and if there's a PoPo hiding somewhere that you didn't see, they're gonna be right there. I've had them follow me all the way into the work parking lot then continue on when, like Datsun1500 sez, they weren't expecting an "old white guy." They were probably expecting a "young white guy" if it comes down to it, so it isn't just race. Got stopped once for "not using a turn signal when you made that right turn." Yeah, I might have got on it a bit before that and not seen him hiding, but I never was really speeding. Just zero to "almost" speeding in a rather short time. And then there's the motorcycles. Man, before the yuppies moved into the scene, riding a Harley was reason enough to stop you. Been followed through bum-berkeley towns by the PoPo, stopped, frisked, searched in Houston, etc., for riding a Harley. Anyway, I guess my point is that they pick on anyone they can, not just because of your color, but any excuse is a good one. Oh, hey, also remember that last black man shot dead in the back while he was running away? He was driving a Mercedes and it wasn't his car.

Funny, I get picked up for DWRWK (driving while rich white kid) a lot in the ms3. 20% means they can't see me, and no normal adult has the personalized plate I do.

In reply to yupididit:

A post I made on another forum: Hah I'm i 26 and live in a very nice neighborhood. I pay MY bills and dont break the law. It still puzzles me how often I get stopped by the police at night in my own neighborhood. I could be driving or going running but it happens way too often. I've asked some of the white runners who run through my neighbood how often they've been stopped. Zero hahaha. I cant help but to laugh at that. Not going to count the times I've been pulled over and asked, "is this your car" instead of "lisence and registration". I figure myself to be a good citizen. I work, I'm educated, I volunteer, and I dont bother anyone. Interesting what some whites say to me. "James you're not a black black guy. You're more white than black". I always respond with, "what do you mean? If I was a black black guy then would that be better or worse". Never understood that. I'm a white black guy. Haha funny. Or when they tell me most black guys aren't like me. But then I tell them how all of my black male friends are responsible good people with graduate degrees and the one's who are not college educated or successful are the nicest people in the world. Ha love it. But then again these are the same whites who tell me racism doesn't exist or no longer effects blacks or anyone for that matter.

That really sucks. I thought one of the few redeeming qualities of California was that we were past a lot of this crap. I'm a few hundred miles north of you, and it doesn't seem that bad. Of most of the people I know that get profiled, of all races- time, place, dress, car etc. all seem to be about equal factors. The people that I know in law enforcement seem to go out of their way to avoid the appearance of racial profiling. I've only had one experience in my life like that. I was picking up a co-worker in a rough part of Sacramento at night. I had a newer, somewhat flashy car that stuck out in the neighborhood. I had a couple police cars pull in behind me, and they questioned me and ran my license. I did nothing other than park my car in the wrong neighborhood. I could understand how frusterating that could be if it happened time after time.

I got berked with constantly by the local constabulary when I was younger. I got beaten pretty badly on a couple of occasions. I think there are a not inconsiderable amount of officers that just don't like people, particularly young people. We need people out there that want to guide, mentor and teach, not punish and seek vengence. It's not a race issue as far as I can see, it's a cop mentality issue. If I had been a minority when I was young, you wouldnt have convinced me of that though. That said, peacefull protest on a large scale would have made the change that needs to happen actually happen, not deepen resentment of each other and perpetuate racism amd stereotypes.

sesto elemento wrote: I think there are a not inconsiderable amount of officers that just don't like people, particularly young people. ...It's not a race issue as far as I can see, it's a cop mentality issue.

i agree with your general sentiment, but i'm not ready to dismiss racial bias yet. Lets say it is no less a problem that cop mentality overall is an issue as well.

it's not racial.. it is just a police department that is completely out of control.

As for some cops on power trips.. all the people in my HS class who became cops.. none of them surprised me. They were always the jocks who loved to push people around.

One friend of mine who tried desperately to be a cop and never made it.. she failed every psychological exam.. she wanted to be a cop to help people

yupididit wrote:

Boost_Crazy wrote: In reply to yupididit: Were there any other factors which may have been in play when you had negative interactions? Not anything you did, but things that might have caught the attention of the police. While I don't doubt that skin color can be a factor, I'd be suprised if it was the only one, or the primary factor. How you were dressed, what you were driving, who you were with, and the time and place are all factors on how you are perceived. Your reaction to the police is also a big determining factor of how the experience goes. That applies no matter your skin color. Now I understand that most of those things shouldn't matter, but they do, and I don't think it's fair to put race at the top of the list if there are other factors at play. Now, if none of those things applied, and you were hassled by the police for no reason whatsoever, that is not acceptable.

A post I made on another forum: Hah I'm i 26 and live in a very nice neighborhood. I pay MY bills and dont break the law. It still puzzles me how often I get stopped by the police at night in my own neighborhood. I could be driving or going running but it happens way too often. I've asked some of the white runners who run through my neighbood how often they've been stopped. Zero hahaha. I cant help but to laugh at that. Not going to count the times I've been pulled over and asked, "is this your car" instead of "lisence and registration". I figure myself to be a good citizen. I work, I'm educated, I volunteer, and I dont bother anyone. Interesting what some whites say to me. "James you're not a black black guy. You're more white than black". I always respond with, "what do you mean? If I was a black black guy then would that be better or worse". Never understood that. I'm a white black guy. Haha funny. Or when they tell me most black guys aren't like me. But then I tell them how all of my black male friends are responsible good people with graduate degrees and the one's who are not college educated or successful are the nicest people in the world. Ha love it. But then again these are the same whites who tell me racism doesn't exist or no longer effects blacks or anyone for that matter.

I love this post...

The problem though is SADLY you are exceptional. The 'norm' for a guy with black skin isn't what it should be. It is going to be a long time before good folks like you are the person people think of when they hear 'black guy'.

The reasons for this are MANY, and the attitude of Cops isn't going to be what LEADS any kind of positive change.

The funny thing is- yup's post is right on the mark more than one could imagine. Around here at least, some of the "ghetto" or "trap" aspects of the perceived black man is as much a part of the culture as it is a stereotype. I'm not making it up when I say Ebonics is considered a separate language as much as it is a collection of slang terms. And at least a large part of the black community sees you as being a sell out, or white- when you're well educated, speak clearly and don't follow the stereotype. Even my black friends know this. One I used to to work with- we joked about it all the time. What made it even funnier was I've got some very deep interest in a lot of the culture (music and food especially) so we find a lot of common ground in a lot of places. But then there's the aspects that you just look and you shake your head .... Case study- brewery isn't in the best area, so I get a lot of exposure to various ethnic and economic statuses. The other day I'm at the gas station getting my soda on, and a dude in a w-body impala pulls up next to me. He gets out and starts filling his tires. Now in doing so, he's impeded my leaving which I was obviously in the process of- and he knows it. Even looks right at me while he's doing it. And incidences like these are faaaaaar from isolated. It seems that its a cultural badge of honor to be as belligerent as possible and then claim race baiting when someone like me gets fed up and stands up to it. I know this- I lost a job over it. Wife knows it took she's been attacked more than once in her line of work and told after that the person in question stated it was the white girls fault. Even went so far as to use racial terms for whitey in the process, which is apparently ok, because its not racist if you're not white.

So really, there's two sides to it. I'm definitely not of the opinion that being a cop gives you the right to racially profile, and I can't imagine what it must be like to be persecuted on the color of ones skin. But when you've got an entire culture built around belligerency, intolerance for others, and even going so far as to ostracize those that you don't perceive as following proper culture within a given boundary, you're sort of setting yourself and your friends up for failure. It'd be no different than if whites were largely kkk members. It wouldn't make.it right that I'd be thought of as a cross burning redneck, but I'd not really be able to fault anyone that gut reacted that way based on the status quo. Sometimes, stereotypes write themselves- and until everyone can agree that things need to change wholesale and not just stating something as blind as black lives matter (really? Don't they all? You're sort of typecasting yourselves with that one), were going to keep having these problems.

I wish being a "racist" simply meant you were like us = into racing or racecar.

In reply to Datsun1500:

It takes a lot to offend me, and the above quotes along with the "are you sure you didn't do something?" quote, are pretty far over the line to me. Wow

Wow, really? I'm guessing you are referencing my quote. I don't care what color your skin is, but it's obviously very thin. I certainly didn't intend any offense. I had a legitimate question, and was having an honest discussion. I got an answer that I learned something from, so I consider it a worthwhile question. In my life expiriences, false claims of racism far outnumber legitimate claims. That's not to say it doesn't exist- but the false claims do a huge disservice to those who truly expirience racism. If you are looking for something to be offended by, perhaps you should start there.

Datsun1500 wrote:

ronholm wrote: I love this post... The problem though is SADLY you are exceptional. The 'norm' for a guy with black skin isn't what it should be. It is going to be a long time before good folks like you are the person people think of when they hear 'black guy'. The reasons for this are MANY, and the attitude of Cops isn't going to be what LEADS any kind of positive change.

Wow. Exceptional? Not from what I can tell with my friends who are black. Saying he's exceptional for being a regular person, saying the "norm" isn't what it "should" be and calling him "good folks" is pretty offensive. It takes a lot to offend me, and the above quotes along with the "are you sure you didn't do something?" quote, are pretty far over the line to me. Wow.

Heck... maybe I didn't word that correctly... but damn. The statistical norm for 'black guy' isn't the man with wife, kids, a minivan and a decent job living in the burbs. It just isn't. There are LOTS of reasons for this. Much of it is the institution of racism people are rightly worked up about, but there are also many other reasons.

If the norm for Black folks was really the same as the norm for the rest of our culture, this would be VERY a different conversation.

Living where I do I see quite a bit of the other side of the tracks from his experiences though. I had an employee who I nearly fired over yelling at his girlfriend about the kids speaking to "olathian" Olathe is just a normal American 'suburbia' of Kansas City. My guy was from the hood in downtown KCK.. and the kids not speaking as if they were from the hood was a real problem for him.

I wouldn't want to live in Yup's shoes.. that is for damn sure.

I must be Django, exceptional nigga. But, nah.

The way I am is definitely the norm for almost every black male I know and any male of any color I've come across. The problem is people perceiving me as exceptional or not the normal black guy. Apparently, race doesn't dictate anything but how you're treated.

Hell even in the military I see some racism. I remember my coworker who is Greek and married to a black guy used to get complaints about her husband on base housing. A guy down the street from her used to start E36 M3 with her husband. Calling him nigger on a few occasions but mostly calling security forces making complaints for any reason he could find. Finally, her husband said something back and cops were called because of the argument. Her husband was actually a pretty shy and timid guy but he happen to wear "urban" clothing. Anyway, the cops didn't find anything worth reporting. But, our Chief was tired of hearing about it. He called her into his office and talked to her about it. She thought he was going to be on her side but he wasn't. The conversation ended with, "have you tried to tell your husband to try not to be so black?". From there she walked out without saying a word and came back to her desk crying her eyes out. Pretty E36 M3ty.

Anyway, I have stories upon stories of the special fun times being a black guy! My wife who is half asian and half spainard thinks it's the most interesting thing in the world. Even she gets very interesting questions from her white girlfriends about being married to a black guy.

Guys, thanks for posting all of this, I find it all very enlightening.

Up here in Canada, we don't see race issues like this as much as you do so I'm not as familiar with all of it.

We are taught all the history in schools but since it's not as prevalent here it doesn't have the same impact.

It's sad to read all of this and see what is going on down there.

Here's what I'm having trouble understanding:

Surely the people that perpetuate the thug stereotype must be the minority. The logical part of my brain tells me that the vast majority of black people must be decent, hard working people that just want to live their lives in peace and have their kids get a better life than they did, just like everyone else on the planet.

So why is the thug stereotype reinforced so much more than any other race (so it seems)?

Is it the media perpetuating it? Is it the people themselves? Is it bad community leaders? Is it the police? Or is it a bit of everything?

Surely all the decent black people who aren't the stereotype are tired of all this race-baiting and everything else, can they not speak out and say "these people don't represent us" or are they already doing it and they are still being drowned out by the vocal minorty.

I'm having a hard time articualting what I want to say and hopefully it doesn't come out as "why can't they fix their own problems?" because that's not my intention.

It's a sad state of affairs and it appears that it's going to be a long, slow process to repair the damage.

Shawn