Grassroots Audiosports?

EvanB wrote: http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/38125/harman-kardon-avr1600-7.1channel-av-receiver-klipsch-hd-300-compact-5.1-high-definition-theater-system About double your budget but seems to be a good deal. I have a somewhat related question. I want to get some speakers to run from my computer. 5.1 surround capability on my motherboard so I would like some speakers that plug directly into that. What would be good systems to look at?

Satellites usually generate woeful excuses for sound.

For your question... You've got two options:

1) Get powered speakers.
2) Get a receiver/preamp/amp/whatever and run your signal from your soundcard to that. Keep in mind that unless the soundcard has a GREAT onboard DAC, you'll probably be wanting to use the optical out on the card, and let whatever you run it to, do the decoding.

93celicaGT2 wrote: 1) Nope, that's an accurate statement. But it's not that simple. All drivers are not created equal. All enclosures are not created equal, and all crossovers are not created equal. The more crossovers needed for a speaker, the more money it SHOULD take to construct if you're keeping the same quality. CHEAP 3-way speakers are usually just that. Cheap.

Are you saying that the sound quality of a given speaker is more dependent on the quality of the drivers and crossovers than the quality of the enclosure and number and type of speakers?

So, besides trusting a particular brand/model line, you can't really have a good understanding of how good or bad a speaker is by just looking at it and handling it, correct? I think that looking at a thrift shop, I won't have much chance to actually play anything through the speakers.

scardeal wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: 1) Nope, that's an accurate statement. But it's not that simple. All drivers are not created equal. All enclosures are not created equal, and all crossovers are not created equal. The more crossovers needed for a speaker, the more money it SHOULD take to construct if you're keeping the same quality. CHEAP 3-way speakers are usually just that. Cheap.

Are you saying that the sound quality of a given speaker is more dependent on the quality of the drivers and crossovers than the quality of the enclosure and number and type of speakers? So, besides trusting a particular brand/model line, you can't really have a good understanding of how good or bad a speaker is by just looking at it and handling it, correct? I think that looking at a thrift shop, I won't have much chance to actually play anything through the speakers.

That's pretty much what i'm saying, yes, though of course, there are always exceptions. But it's a good ground rule. There's a whole "subculture" of people that build SINGLE driver speakers using Fostex drivers, and they sound great. They'll typically just use a 4" Fostex driver and a fairly odd-looking enclosure. No tweeter necessary.

And you are spot on. Though, you can get a good idea of what you'll be hearing by the "knuckle knock test" at the thrift shop, and by having an idea of what brand you're looking for. To get another car-related analogy in here... Even if you've never driven a Miata, you know that chances are that they'd be a very rewarding car, because you see people on these forums raving about them daily. On the flip side, you also know that you wouldn't be interested in an automatic base model 4-door Camry, because of sentiments of BOOORRRRIIINNNGGGG on these forums. When shopping for the personally unknown, stick with what tends to get good reviews from like-minded people that HAVE tried that brand.

The quality of the enclosure usually will play second fiddle to the question of whether or not the enclosure's dimensions were properly engineered to make the best use of the drivers it has. But... if it's a solid enclosure, doesn't sound hollow, the chances that the manufacturer cut corners elsewhere are usually diminished.

I also just remembered that i have a spare pair of Paradigm Titan V.3s with nice stands. If you're up for a road trip down to Indy to get them, i can cut you a nice deal on those as well. They're bookshelves, but they don't SOUND like bookshelves, if that makes sense. I'd be looking for $100 with the stands to a GRMer.

Offshoot- I was poking around at several of those parts sites, since you all were talkinga bout custom making speakers. Anyone ever actually done it?

mndsm wrote: Offshoot- I was poking around at several of those parts sites, since you all were talkinga bout custom making speakers. Anyone ever actually done it?

No, but i do plan on doing so. Starting out with one of the basic Parts Express kits, maybe Dayton-based. But also be aware that it's a DEEP rabbit hole. If you get hooked, you could quite easily spend thousands of dollars building a pair of small bookshelf speakers.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100244

http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3338

scardeal wrote: My understanding was that tweeters handled higher frequency noises best, mid-ranges handled medium frequencies best and woofers handled lower frequencies best. (And subwoofers were for the low end of the lower frequencies.) I know that a larger object tends to naturally vibrate at a lower frequency than a smaller object, so it would make sense that speakers of different sizes would best handle certain frequency ranges better than other sizes. Is this inaccurate?

More of an over-simplification. Making three drivers work together is harder than making two work together. More money and more design time in a crossover. Done well it can work great! But there's something to be said for a two way. I won't say one is inherantly better than the other, but each have their devoted camps- as do single driver full range speakers.

I have designed and built my own speakers from scratch several times. It's tricky. It can be very rewarding, but you're laying out good scratch for parts with no assurance they will sound good.

It is enormously fufilling when it works out. If great sound for low dough is the goal, though, buying used is a better bet. You can get great speakers for less than the parts cost to build a speaker from scratch, and you can hear it before you buy it.

Just my opinion. YMMV

I've had plenty of sets of new/used speakers in the past... I'm bored with box stock. I think I need to find a better reciever than the OG Kenwood I'm rockin'.... and build me a new set.

Just a couple of thrift store tips, not fool proof. Heavy is almost always good. Look at the terminals. Cheap speakers almost never have high quality binding posts.

fast_eddie_72 wrote: Just a couple of thrift store tips, not fool proof. Heavy is almost always good. Look at the terminals. Cheap speakers almost never have high quality binding posts.

Good tips, forgot about the binding posts. Most decent speakers will have 5-way binding posts.

Most E36 M3ty speakers will have spring clips.

One of the more common exceptions is some of the older Polks. Some of the Monitor and monitor-based series had spring clips.

More advanced thrift store tip- if it says "Polk Monitor" just buy it ;-)

Depending on how bad you get the bug and how good your local thrift stores are, two more tips...

Do they have a return policy? My Goodwill will take anything back in 10 days if you leave the ole tagger on it. Nice to know so if you see what you think might be a smokin' deal you don't have to worry about being wrong.

Could you sell it for more than it's priced? I have bought a lot of stuff that I took home, loved for a while, maybe fixed up a bit and then "sold it on for a profit at the end of the show". If the price is low enough and you don't mind taking the time you can play with some neat stuff this way.

Man, you guys have me wanting to scope out goodwill now.

PubBurgers wrote: Man, you guys have me wanting to scope out goodwill now.

Careful. It can get ugly. Once you learn just a few things about stereo gear, if you have good thrift stores (which for some reason we do in Denver- epic good) you see one deal after another "too good to pass up". Next thing you know you have gear everywhere and your house starts to look like one of those hoarder shows on cable.

I got it under control but almost never go in a thrif store anymore. "Hi, my name is Ed and I'm a thrift-o-haulic. It's been two years, four months and 14 days since my last purchase".

Oh, and they're all projects- kinda like cars. I have no spare time, sooooo. Still have four single ended EL84 tube amps waiting for me to get to them... oh, and that tube reciever... and those Genesis speakers.... yeah.

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

PubBurgers wrote: Man, you guys have me wanting to scope out goodwill now.

Careful. It can get ugly. Once you learn just a few things about stereo gear, if you have good thrift stores (which for some reason we do in Denver- epic good) you see one deal after another "too good to pass up". Next thing you know you have gear everywhere and your house starts to look like one of those hoarder shows on cable. I got it under control but almost never go in a thrif store anymore. "Hi, my name is Ed and I'm a thrift-o-haulic. It's been two years, four months and 14 days since my last purchase". Oh, and they're all projects- kinda like cars. I have no spare time, sooooo. Still have four single ended EL84 tube amps waiting for me to get to them... oh, and that tube reciever... and those Genesis speakers.... yeah.

What he said. I'm relatively back under control. As in... i have 5 pairs of speakers. Two amps. 3 preamps. 3 cd players. 2 old school analog tuners. A tube buffer. Two power conditioners. At least 20 pairs of nice cable interconnects.

And probably a bunch of other stuff lying around. Doesn't sound like much, but i live in a one bedroom apartment, and only one pair of those speakers are bookshelves. The rest are floorstanders.

I stopped at a thrift store on the way home. The only "interesting" set of speakers was this pair of Ohm branded speakers that looked like a tall trash can. I'm not sure what to think of them:

Ohm speakers with Walsh drivers. Very nice indeed! You'd want to be sure you can either test them or return them. When they break you can't fix them easily. If I had to guess, site unseen, I'd guess the surrounds on the Walsh driver is gone and that's why they're in the thrift store. But I have gotten good ones from thrifts.

Yeah, I've refoamed many ohm walsh drivers. Not for the faint of heart (I used to repair drivers for a living). I didn't read through this whole post but let me caution the OP. Stay away from Harman Kardon. I made the mistake of picking up a reciever and dvd player a few years ago. The AVR lasted about 6 months before it crapped out. The replacement was broken out of the box! The next replacement went on craigslist unopened. The DVD player lasted about a year, the replacement in still working. I took the money from the HK AVR and picked up a used Rotel. Wow what a nice unit that is.

Woah, I might pull the trigger in this one http://cgi.ebay.com/Rotel-BR-985-100W-5-Channel-Home-Theater-Amplifier-/300461662464?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f4e92100

Okay, reading thread has just reminded me how deeply ashamed I am that I listen to so much good music on such crap systems.

So, if you'd be so kind, build me a basic component system of modest power to be used mainly for listening to vinyl at moderate volume in a large-ish room. And of course, knowing the nature of this board, frugality is a priority. (Bonus points if you use the St. Louis craigslist for your build.)

For that matter, how does one go about efficiently searching CL for stereo gear without knowing exact brand/models?

alex wrote: For that matter, how does one go about efficiently searching CL for stereo gear without knowing exact brand/models?

You said "vinyl," so try searching CL Electronics section for "Vintage" or "Tubes."

If you'd like, i'm sure some of us could chime in with brands to look out for, and brands to avoid.

Give me a total budget, i'll see what i can come up with. I enjoy doing this.

I like this game too. Of course the last total budget I was given was somewhere north of 10 grand, with the only REAL requirement being that it integrate into a cabin up north. This cabin.... is more home than most homes I know of.

93celicaGT2 wrote:

alex wrote: For that matter, how does one go about efficiently searching CL for stereo gear without knowing exact brand/models?

You said "vinyl," so try searching CL Electronics section for "Vintage" or "Tubes." If you'd like, i'm sure some of us could chime in with brands to look out for, and brands to avoid. Give me a total budget, i'll see what i can come up with. I enjoy doing this.

ok - general use surround sound (3.1 or 5.1 ) for DVDs/music/TV - need a receiver - dont need to blow the walls off, just good sound - prefer wall mount speakers, a sub, and the DVD player does not need to be part of the component group searched for, but CD does - Cincinnnati CL within 50 miles of 45039, or brick and mortar retailer- <$100 per component ...ok GO!

4cylndrfury wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote:

alex wrote: For that matter, how does one go about efficiently searching CL for stereo gear without knowing exact brand/models?

You said "vinyl," so try searching CL Electronics section for "Vintage" or "Tubes." If you'd like, i'm sure some of us could chime in with brands to look out for, and brands to avoid. Give me a total budget, i'll see what i can come up with. I enjoy doing this.

ok - general use surround sound (3.1 or 5.1 ) for DVDs/music/TV - need a receiver - dont need to blow the walls off, just good sound - prefer wall mount speakers, a sub, and the DVD player does not need to be part of the component group searched for, but CD does - Cincinnnati CL within 50 miles of 45039, or brick and mortar retailer- <$100 per component ...ok GO!

You'll have a list sometime tomorrow, deal?

93celicaGT2 wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote:

alex wrote: For that matter, how does one go about efficiently searching CL for stereo gear without knowing exact brand/models?

You said "vinyl," so try searching CL Electronics section for "Vintage" or "Tubes." If you'd like, i'm sure some of us could chime in with brands to look out for, and brands to avoid. Give me a total budget, i'll see what i can come up with. I enjoy doing this.

ok - general use surround sound (3.1 or 5.1 ) for DVDs/music/TV - need a receiver - dont need to blow the walls off, just good sound - prefer wall mount speakers, a sub, and the DVD player does not need to be part of the component group searched for, but CD does - Cincinnnati CL within 50 miles of 45039, or brick and mortar retailer- <$100 per component ...ok GO!

You'll have a list sometime tomorrow, deal?

deal!