DaveEstey wrote:I liked mine a lot. It spent its entire existence breaking my heart and draining my wallet. I'll never own another Subaru because of it.
That bad?
A friend of mine had a regular legacy of that generation and I found it to be very nice inside. Is it that boxer engine and turbo causing all the trouble?
I like the Legacy GT and MS6, for their more subtle styling, comfort, and sleeper status.
Why not get the 6 speed, 255 HP, AWD, Buick Regal GS?
I'm just wondering.
I vote get the worlds nicest celica all trac, put 5 grand of the 15 that you saved into it to make it a weapon with lsds front and rear, recaros seats, a nardi wheel and a flocked dash and door panels in it. Have something truly special and unique. Happily ever after.
mndsm wrote:z31maniac wrote: Are the rear ends "junk"? Or are the "junk" in the sense that they won't tolerate 24-year old, flat bill wearing kids doing clutch drops with 400whp "junk"?Volvo rear ends. Lots of leaking diff seals and crap. Tend to grenade when driven in anger. Easily fixable. Street unit makes good parts, as do CPE and Cobb. Those are most of what is on my ms3.,
When I was with volvo we saw some of those rearends blow up. None were 400whp, or 200. I think it was a slip in the snow then grab pavement kinda thing that took them out.
carbon wrote: I vote get the worlds nicest celica all trac, put 5 grand of the 15 that you saved into it to make it a weapon with lsds front and rear, recaros seats, a nardi wheel and a flocked dash and door panels in it. Have something truly special and unique. Happily ever after.
I have drooled over that gt4 ever since hideki posted it on the alltrac forum.
I'm happy I found this thread, I was surprised at some of the prices I found. 2007 with 70k miles for $12k.
carbon wrote: I vote get the worlds nicest celica all trac, put 5 grand of the 15 that you saved into it to make it a weapon with lsds front and rear, recaros seats, a nardi wheel and a flocked dash and door panels in it. Have something truly special and unique. Happily ever after.
That car was built by someone who doesn't understand basic aero.
Nitroracer wrote:DaveEstey wrote:That bad? A friend of mine had a regular legacy of that generation and I found it to be very nice inside. Is it that boxer engine and turbo causing all the trouble? I like the Legacy GT and MS6, for their more subtle styling, comfort, and sleeper status.
Bad enough that I sold it at a loss of $6,000 just to be rid of it.
I've never driven or even ridden in an Evo I am sad to say. When I bought my WRX, I was frankly too scared to drop so much money on a Mitsubishi product. I had a bad experience with a Might Max pickup in the 80's and to this day I still refer to the brand as MitsuE36 M3ty.
I would've liked to get a MS6, but I was shopping for a new AWD turbocharged car in 2012.
z31maniac wrote:carbon wrote: I vote get the worlds nicest celica all trac, put 5 grand of the 15 that you saved into it to make it a weapon with lsds front and rear, recaros seats, a nardi wheel and a flocked dash and door panels in it. Have something truly special and unique. Happily ever after.That car was built by someone who doesn't understand basic aero.
Brett_Murphy wrote: Why not get the 6 speed, 255 HP, AWD, Buick Regal GS? I'm just wondering.
z31maniac wrote:carbon wrote: I vote get the worlds nicest celica all trac, put 5 grand of the 15 that you saved into it to make it a weapon with lsds front and rear, recaros seats, a nardi wheel and a flocked dash and door panels in it. Have something truly special and unique. Happily ever after.That car was built by someone who doesn't understand basic aero.
That doesn't show that the fenders are spaced out in the back, too.
carbon wrote: I vote get the worlds nicest celica all trac, put 5 grand of the 15 that you saved into it to make it a weapon with lsds front and rear, recaros seats, a nardi wheel and a flocked dash and door panels in it. Have something truly special and unique. Happily ever after.
Are front and rear aftermarket diffs even available for these? Couldn't get both, last time i looked.
Conquest351 wrote:Brett_Murphy wrote: Why not get the 6 speed, 255 HP, AWD, Buick Regal GS? I'm just wondering.
In a few years when the price comes down perhaps.......until then, meh. The MS6 was more of a performance bargain when they came off lease in 08-09 than they are now, but they're still a good bargain.
Yeah, I'm waiting till that Armada of my wife's is payed off in October. Then it's daddy's turn for a new ride. I'm sure I can get a loan on one from my bank or whatever. Whatever I get, it will be a dramatic drop from what we're paying now for a car payment.
Conquest351 wrote:
That was a serious question. Is it cost? Just not interested?
WRX: Cheapest one of the three. Probably the biggest following, and biggest parts selection. Hard to fine clean, unmodified examples, but they are out there. They have their issues, as we all know.
EVO: More race-oriented than the WRX, and on par with the STI. Hard to find any clean examples these days, at least around here. Every one I've seen for sale has been modified.
MS6: These are nice, but are hard to find. Most stayed unmodified from what I can tell. Same motor as the MS3, and yes, I've heard that the rear ends are prone to breaking.
(another example if you can find one) Legacy Spec B: Pretty much a 05-09 Legacy with a STI drivetrain. Nicer inside, pretty sure they come with Brembos, and they are RARE. If you can find one, these are awesome.
A girl here at work has a MS6 that needs an engine. I'm waiting for her to sell it cheap enough to buy it. I'd love to have one of those.
Unless you plan on modding it from the beginning, skip the Buick Regal. I have heard that they are real dogs, even the GS models. I do like them though.
Brett_Murphy wrote:Conquest351 wrote:That was a serious question. Is it cost? Just not interested?
Not interested in the slightest. Nothing about that car appeals to me. I mean, I'm sure it's OK, but it's just not my bag... baby.
With Evos it depends a little on the generation - it's easier to find an unmodded or mildly modded X than the earlier ones. At least out here the Evos tend to be in a little better shape than the STIs and especially the WRXs, simply because they're more expensive.
I dd an unmodded EVO X MR (mainly because we needed a quasi-automatic so my wife can drive it if necessary) and it's certainly comfortable enough for that. Well, compared to a 1st gen CRX and a race seated Miata on coilovers that is. Would I want to DD the Evo in the Bay Area? Most likely not, but out here in the sticks with reasonable traffic it's a hoot and it deals with winter (or the sorry excuse for winter we have right now) very well.
I did consider an MS6, but it failed at the "must be able to change gears by itself" hurdle, plus we decided that if we're going to buy this kind of boost buggy, we better buy it new.
I'd also consider a Ralliart which is closer to the WRX. Well, we did, we just liked the Evo a lot better.
One thing to keep in mind - especially if the car doubles as a kid hauler - is that the Evo X has a rather small trunk. The Ralliart's is bigger, though.
In reply to BoxheadTim:
The ralliart isn't on par with the wrx unfortunately........novel concept, horrible execution, normal for Mitsu.
Which Ralliart are we talking about here? I was talking about the "mini-Evo" with the regular body, detuned engine and the MR gearbox.
I wouldn't call it "horrible", although we figured that we'd have to replace the seats immediately if we ended up buying one. An Evo did make a lot more sense to us once we had had a chance to drive both.
Oh, I'm referencing the "neutered evo" with the suspension that has body roll for days.....it was worse in just spirited driving on surface streets than the stock fusion I hooned around.
Yea, at least the fusion felt "planted". I was the happiest person in the world when my Saturn rolled out of the service department that day.....oddly enough, the IRL even felt quicker than the mitsu. 
my wife's DD is 2006 MS6 and it has been a great car for her. One of the worst things is the canister oil filter(the lube shops hate to see one of these things pull up in the lot). Otherwise, I had to rebuild the PCV valve a few times until Debbie understood that she needed to give the car an "italian" tune-up on a weekly basis. It just survived the recent snow/ice storms with amazing abilities and after a few CS upgrades, is a very quick DD with decent luxury status. You sure dont see many of the things on the road but there isnt much common parts with the other cars in the Mazda lineup.
Now that this has expanded beyond the original 3 comparison in the OP: would it be fair to consider the S60R in the mix? I've not been in a MS6, but know the interior quality, and "grown-upness" blows the Scoobie & Mitsu out of the water, and would expect the same of the MS6.
Sleeper, plenty of power, turbo, tunealbe, that interior, I mean come on, AWD, I'd wager at least as reliable as the MS6, more so than the Scoobie.
It's got it's issues, Haldex can be troublesome if not maintained, some other Volvo maintenance quirks, and some high dollar adjust on the fly shocks/struts, but Volvo fanboi aside, it'd be my pick over the MS6 for the comfy DD occasional hoonage duties. For a Rallycross/HPDE/track car the other two AWD Asians get the nod.
S40 T5 AWD too, not as plush as the S60R, but pushes a lot of the right buttons.
Conquest351 wrote: I'm all over the MS6 for a 4-door AWD turbo daily driver. He's all over the WRX STi. We're both kinda, eh, about the EVO. Has anyone driven or have good experience with all 3 and can give a good insight on them and compare the pros and cons of each?
I think the follow up question is: what do you consider to be a daily driver? What are the needs versus wants?
Somebody can enjoy an electric moped as a daily driver while someone else needs the Hyundai Genesis sedan and me I just love my Evo.
They all get the basics done. But they can vary a lot or just a little in how they do everything else.
From the Evo perspective I can say that I have only wished for better seat backs and cruise control. The seat backs on the early Evos were just poorly designed. They are known to break by just taking a corner hard. Everything else gave me exactly what I wanted. Incredible steering that makes all other steering I have tried (911, Viper, BMW e46, mazda 6, neon, corvette, and a few others) seem off somehow. Some say the ride is punishing but I never found it bad considering what it allows you to do at most corners. The braking control is just excellent. It is a fun thing to brake into turns and control the rear angle so intuitively. I do it everyday I drive it at least once. If you live and commute in stop and go rush hour for hours on end it can get to be a rough daily driver I guess. I still don't mind it. But I find others want to zone out when driving more than I do. I am always focused on the driving.
In reply to bigdaddylee82:
My friend has an '08(?) S60R. It's got the push-button adjustable shocks, super-nice interior, and a great engine. He has been on a race track twice so far and he was walking away from my student in his new STI in the rain at his second event. Granted, both are students... and the STI was doing some confusing things that we later figured out were totally awesome.
That said, and back to the original question: I have no idea about the EVOs except that they always win FTD at the Time Trials I saw them at for two years, I've never been in an MS6, but they just sound like better cars for your argument, and of the STIs I've driven and been in... I'm amazed. The traction control system works WITH you and never against you. Like, you'll never be pounding your foot repeatedly on the gas pedal screaming "WHY WON'T YOU DO ANYTHING?" while you're trying to exit turn five at Summit Point because it decides to cut power and apply brakes... nay, it will start laying down power and it will actually help you through the turn. That can feel... a little weird in the rain until you know what it's doing.
For your case, though, the Mazda just sounds like the best of the three. I'm not really the right person to respond about daily drivers because I only daily-drive cars that are stupid to drive every day, but comfort and niceness go a long way. The boy racer STI and EVO aren't nice. They're mean. They push your ice cream in your face and laugh at you, but you laugh too because you're afraid they'll push you into a locker that one time at Hershey Park where I couldn't get out for an hour.
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