Health Care Law is a tax

Put a ceiling on every procedure, so that the AMA sets maximum pricing.

Make the doctor actually see the patient, every visit, or no payment.

Stop doctor's getting kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies.

For a start

ddavidv wrote: How do we fix healthcare?

Tort reform. Make it so loser pays when these asshats sue a doctor. Do that and the doctors wont have to play the CYA game and order every test under the sun. Also get the government to pay its bills. Then get the insurance companies out of the market as much as possible. Where you keep it open up the markets to every one. When an illegal comes in for health care deport them right after its finished.

ThePhranc wrote:

ddavidv wrote: How do we fix healthcare?

Tort reform. Make it so loser pays when these asshats sue a doctor. Do that and the doctors wont have to play the CYA game and order every test under the sun. Also get the government to pay its bills. Then get the insurance companies out of the market as much as possible. Where you keep it open up the markets to every one. When an illegal comes in for health care deport them right after its finished.

I don't have an answer, but this really screws over the poor and middle class. A Loser Pays system will mean that lawyers would no longer be willing to work on a contingency basis. This means that when a doctor actually does act negligently, only the rich will be able to afford the cost of filing a lawsuit and paying for the expert witnesses, etc.

Not sure about the structure, but on the component side - accountability and transparency.

Financial and behavioral accountability on the part of patients - more skin in the game and immediate/direct consequences for behavior that drives the cost/utilization of healthcare up (looking at you smokers and obese) -. Pricing transparency on the part of providers - no surprises on billing and ability to compare/shop (locally, a blood panel ranges from a low of $19 to $150), transparency on clinical results - don't pay for stuff that doesn't work - if it isn't proven - then it needs to be in a controlled research program. You need a safety net for the poor, but not free insurance in perpetuity.

Everybody has their idea about what the elephant in the room is regarding health care costs. It isn't that simple. The whole system is pretty messed up.

mpolans wrote:

ThePhranc wrote:

ddavidv wrote: How do we fix healthcare?

Tort reform. Make it so loser pays when these asshats sue a doctor. Do that and the doctors wont have to play the CYA game and order every test under the sun. Also get the government to pay its bills. Then get the insurance companies out of the market as much as possible. Where you keep it open up the markets to every one. When an illegal comes in for health care deport them right after its finished.

I don't have an answer, but this really screws over the poor and middle class. A Loser Pays system will mean that lawyers would no longer be willing to work on a contingency basis. This means that when a doctor actually does act negligently, only the rich will be able to afford the cost of filing a lawsuit and paying for the expert witnesses, etc.

Thats not true at all. You are saying that a person can't win at all unless they are rich and that is simply not rue.

ThePhranc wrote:

mpolans wrote:

ThePhranc wrote:

ddavidv wrote: How do we fix healthcare?

Tort reform. Make it so loser pays when these asshats sue a doctor. Do that and the doctors wont have to play the CYA game and order every test under the sun. Also get the government to pay its bills. Then get the insurance companies out of the market as much as possible. Where you keep it open up the markets to every one. When an illegal comes in for health care deport them right after its finished.

I don't have an answer, but this really screws over the poor and middle class. A Loser Pays system will mean that lawyers would no longer be willing to work on a contingency basis. This means that when a doctor actually does act negligently, only the rich will be able to afford the cost of filing a lawsuit and paying for the expert witnesses, etc.

Thats not true at all. You are saying that a person can't win at all unless they are rich and that is simply not rue.

That's not really what he's saying. He's saying that the rich would potentially be the only ones willing to take the gamble.

I wouldn't be willing to take the gamble. I couldn't afford what would happen if i lost.

A friend posted a link to this summary of the Health Care Law: http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/vb8vs/eli5_what_exactly_is_obamacare_and_what_did_it/c530lfx

Not being particularly aware of the full scope of the law, I found it rather good to read. I do not know precisely the bias of the source. They appear to be generally in favor of the plan, but it looks to be mostly a factual list anyway.

bravenrace wrote: What I don't understand is how people who think we can't afford to pay doctors and hospitals think that we CAN afford to pay for those things and a government to admistrate it. A government that in my lifetime I have yet to see run any program efficiently.

Most insightful thing I've read all morning. I need to buy you a beer.

In reply to Beer Baron:

Looking at that list, I don't really see where the extra cost is coming from.

Anyone know what I am missing?

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

If the malpractice is legit there is no gamble.

93EXCivic wrote: In reply to Beer Baron: Looking at that list, I don't really see where the extra cost is coming from. Anyone know what I am missing?

http://www.idontgetit.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/photo-obamacare_chart_LG2.jpg

middlemen and more middlemen and even some middlemen to deal between middlemen. and insurance companies being forced to cover things that are costly thus raising costs.

ThePhranc wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: If the malpractice is legit there is no gamble.

Sure there is. It's a court case. You're saying that the guilty have never been let off the hook? The innocent has never been wrongly convicted?

It's your lawyer vs. theirs.

Again, i wouldn't take the risk.

It's ALWAYS a gamble. Most of these cases fall in a grey area as soon as the lawyers get involved. And the lawyers would have to get involved in these cases.

Anything that is run by the government is open to abuse and scammers.

pinchvalve wrote: Anything that is run by the government is open to abuse and scammers.

What's being run by the government?

Medicaid and Medicare, sure... but that's not new.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

ThePhranc wrote:

mpolans wrote:

ThePhranc wrote:

ddavidv wrote: How do we fix healthcare?

Tort reform. Make it so loser pays when these asshats sue a doctor. Do that and the doctors wont have to play the CYA game and order every test under the sun. Also get the government to pay its bills. Then get the insurance companies out of the market as much as possible. Where you keep it open up the markets to every one. When an illegal comes in for health care deport them right after its finished.

I don't have an answer, but this really screws over the poor and middle class. A Loser Pays system will mean that lawyers would no longer be willing to work on a contingency basis. This means that when a doctor actually does act negligently, only the rich will be able to afford the cost of filing a lawsuit and paying for the expert witnesses, etc.

Thats not true at all. You are saying that a person can't win at all unless they are rich and that is simply not rue.

That's not really what he's saying. He's saying that the rich would potentially be the only ones willing to take the gamble. I wouldn't be willing to take the gamble. I couldn't afford what would happen if i lost.

No loser pays system really gets to the real problem, ambulance chasing pond scum "attorneys". If someone knows they really don't have a chance in hell to win, the case doesn't see the light of day. But if there is a clear winable case of negilience, there should not be any lawyer that would not take the case. What it really does is gets rid of the McDonalds coffee cases and leaves the amputated wrong foot cases.

Keep your government hands off my Medicare!

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: Anything that is run by the government is open to abuse and scammers.

What's being run by the government? Medicaid and Medicare, sure... but that's not new.

The entire system is now under government control. HHS runs the show now from who has to pay to what care you get.

<a href= What's it mean to me calculator.

Edit: here it is. A calculator for you to figure it out. Don't know what happened up there.

93EXCivic wrote: In reply to Beer Baron: Looking at that list, I don't really see where the extra cost is coming from. Anyone know what I am missing?

I see some funding for non-government non profits, probably some additional agencies. Also, additional tax rebates for middle and lower class.

Really, I don't know where to look for an honest run-down of what the actual cost effects of this will be. Those in favor of it will probably over-estimate or focus on savings from certain portions while underestimating or ignoring costs from others. Those against it will over-estimate or focus on new costs while underestimating or ignoring savings from other places.

I suspect the end-result will be an increase in the number of people covered with any increase or decrease in personal costs being negligible (except to those with chronic health conditions; they will almost certainly benefit substantially).

In reply to ThePhranc:

Are you in the healthcare industry?

ThePhranc wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: In reply to Beer Baron: Looking at that list, I don't really see where the extra cost is coming from. Anyone know what I am missing?

http://www.idontgetit.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/photo-obamacare_chart_LG2.jpg middlemen and more middlemen and even some middlemen to deal between middlemen. and insurance companies being forced to cover things that are costly thus raising costs.

I meant the extra cost to the government not us the consumers. I have seen estimates of an $2 trillion or something like that. Reading through what was posted by Beer Baron I am not seeing where the extra cost to the government is coming from.

Beer Baron wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: In reply to Beer Baron: Looking at that list, I don't really see where the extra cost is coming from. Anyone know what I am missing?

I see some funding for non-government non profits, probably some additional agencies. Also, additional tax rebates for middle and lower class. Really, I don't know where to look for an honest run-down of what the actual cost effects of this will be. Those in favor of it will probably over-estimate or focus on savings from certain portions while underestimating or ignoring costs from others. Those against it will over-estimate or focus on new costs while underestimating or ignoring savings from other places. I suspect the end-result will be an increase in the number of people covered with any increase or decrease in personal costs being negligible (except to those with chronic health conditions; they will almost certainly benefit substantially).

Reading what was posted there seems to not be that much that will increase and spending and there are some additional taxes to cover the cost BUT I see a lot of things that look like they are going to increase the cost to us and businesses.

93EXCivic wrote:

ThePhranc wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: In reply to Beer Baron: Looking at that list, I don't really see where the extra cost is coming from. Anyone know what I am missing?

http://www.idontgetit.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/photo-obamacare_chart_LG2.jpg middlemen and more middlemen and even some middlemen to deal between middlemen. and insurance companies being forced to cover things that are costly thus raising costs.

I meant the extra cost to the government not us the consumers. I have seen estimates of an $2 trillion or something like that. Reading through what was posted by Beer Baron I am not seeing where the extra cost to the government is coming from.

New agencies, new hires at old agencies, new offices, new office furniture, new databases, new server buildings to house all the medical information on every citizen, new office supplies.... and none of it at Staples prices.

ThePhranc wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: Anything that is run by the government is open to abuse and scammers.

What's being run by the government? Medicaid and Medicare, sure... but that's not new.

The entire system is now under government control. HHS runs the show now from who has to pay to what care you get.

Nope.

The only things that have changed is now the government is telling you that you have to buy insurance. There is no "public option," and even if there was, the very term "option" implies that you would have a choice to NOT take the government option.

Yes, insurance companies are being regulated as to how much they should be paying out.

WHO has to pay hasn't changed.

What care you get has had regulations since day 1.