Health Care Law is a tax

In reply to dculberson:

I want to see the coffee pot that keep that temperature. That is nearly boiling and attempting to keep that kind of temp for longer then brewing is going to cost alot given the ineffienciencies with keeping coffee "hot". Only way to keep that going to to continously brew and serve and at some locales you are doing your best to keep up. So I can concede it is a possiblilty that coffee that hot can be served to customers.

But it still comes down to throwing out all the risks associated and the "gotta go get someone because this sure ain't my damn fault I made a mess" bullE36 M3 this country is swimming in. If the cup has been thrown, hapharzard construction, or the like, I can see the case. But to fumble finger a cup of joe and blame someone else because it's "hot" is ludicrous, asinine, and moneygrubbing. Should I have sued Victor, the maker of welding cutting torches, because I lit a torch with a cigarette lighter with my thumb in the path of the flame and promptly got second degree burns and nearly lost my thumbnail?

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to ThePhranc: Since you are completely self sufficient, I assume you have some sort of fund set aside with a couple million dollars in it in case you need a heart transplant, get cancer, etc.

I do have funds set away but when time comes I need a heart transplant and can't afford it I simply don't get one. I'm not so obsessed with living that I will make other people pay for it. I'm guessing you're the kind that has no problem being a burden to others for selfish reasons. Good for you.

In reply to Ranger50:

Did your have healthcare insurance to cover your burns? (Just trying to get us back on topic)

In reply to Ranger50:

I guess so. Only because that's exactly how they want you to light it and there is no special tool to light a torch safely

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to ThePhranc: And it sounds like you don't pay for your health care. If you are paying much less than the medicaid/private insurance reimbursement rate, you were taken on as a welfare case. And the rest of us make that up the difference for you.

You should have just slinked away. But I'll just let you stew in your ignorance while you make a fool of your self.

In reply to ThePhranc:

So your saying that if you needed a heart transplant and couldn't afford to pay cash for it you would just tell the Doc "No thanks"? I have a feeling your attitude would change on your death bed. Just sayin...

ThePhranc wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to ThePhranc: Since you are completely self sufficient, I assume you have some sort of fund set aside with a couple million dollars in it in case you need a heart transplant, get cancer, etc.

I do have funds set away but when time comes I need a heart transplant and can't afford it I simply don't get one. I'm not so obsessed with living that I will make other people pay for it. I'm guessing you're the kind that has no problem being a burden to others for selfish reasons. Good for you.

No. I have insurance. And so will you, soon enough. Good thing. You assume when your medical emergency comes, you will be completely coherent, conscious, clear of mind (even during a stroke, mind you). If you aren't - guess what? Someone calls 911 and we are back to your medical costs falling on the rest of us.

ThePhranc wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to ThePhranc: And it sounds like you don't pay for your health care. If you are paying much less than the medicaid/private insurance reimbursement rate, you were taken on as a welfare case. And the rest of us make that up the difference for you.

You should have just slinked away. But I'll just let you stew in your ignorance while you make a fool of your self.

Oldtin probably said it better than me and perhaps a little less offensively. Sorry if I offended you.

Otto Maddox wrote: Oldtin probably said it better than me and perhaps a little less offensively. Sorry if I offended you.

It's not you that should apologize...

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to Ranger50: Did your have healthcare insurance to cover your burns? (Just trying to get us back on topic)

Back then, sure did. Did I use those benefits? Nope.

In reply to dculberson:

I figure all you guys would make great friends over a beer and an open hood. I would hate to alienate anybody over silly political nonsense. So, I really am sorry if I offend anyone.

Applying for medicaid and food stamps this weekend. Wish me luck!

Datsun1500 wrote: ...then keep it high when everyone is paying into the system.

Exactly.

My problem is with the individual mandate not the changing of the way health care is provided. No politics here, just making everyone pay into a system that hasn't corrected its expensive ways of doing business seems stupid to me. Have you seen what insurance cost when you go shopping for it when your employment doesn't have a plan?

I can see the dribble from both sides here and see many of you jumping on the same side as you usually pick.

The hope would be:

1) Everyone get health insurance those who cant end up being paid by for those who pay the tax. 2) Government offers public option 3) Government uses public option to reduce costs to consumer 4) Taxes increase.

My opinion has always been that taxes will need to increase in order for quality of life to stay the same, it's just the nature of the game. We might as damn well get something for those tax increases, and I'm not sure a well-funded military is the best use of it.

I've paid for insurance myself. It sucks. I used an effin school loan to do it and it was 3 times the price of my car insurance, did I use any of it? Nope. $1200 I could've done without.

PHeller wrote: I've paid for insurance myself. It sucks. I used an effin school loan to do it and it was 3 times the price of my car insurance, did I use any of it? Nope. $1200 I could've done without.

Man, thats the exact situation I am worried about. What happens with the unemployed person that has kids and is looking for a job and can't find one? Your are going to tax him when he is struggling to put food on the table?

My worry with the law is that it is going to probably end up costing us tax payers a lot of money. I keep looking at the amount of money we owe and we have to dig ourselves out of this hole one day. I don't disagree with some of the things in the bill but I think the timing for a lot of it is horrible.

Datsun1500 wrote: My question is a simple one. Everyone says healthcare is expensive because it covers the people that do not have it. If everyone has it will the $80 per pill go away? The issue I see is we will all be forced to pay into the system AND the cost will still be high. The reasoning will be "it's high because of all of the illegals that are not paying into the system" To me that is wrong. You can't tell me that a hospital visit is expensive because it covers all of the non-payers, then keep it high when everyone is paying into the system.

Down here, the legislature passed the Education Lottery to pay for college for in state students. Guess what happened almost immediately? Yep, the colleges immediately ratcheted up the tuition costs.

If anyone here thinks doing basically the same for medical costs won't cause an immediate jump in the cost, well PM me because I got a nice bridge for sale.

Here's a bit of perspective:

To study in Germany, I am required to have health insurance in order to be issued a student visa. Not even a resident. I have to buy some form of health insurance. I had lots of great private options.

My health insurance here provides better coverage than when I was working in the U.S. and costs me less than what I paid when I had a company footing most of the bill.

I got an ear infection a bit after arriving here. I went to see a good private doctor and got in the same day. They weren't able to charge my insurance company directly, but my bill to see a doctor was less than $30. I don't think I ever even had copays that low.

I like this system. It is not a big government controlled monstrosity, but covers everyone. I think there are some lessons here on how we could improve care in the U.S.

In reply to Beer Baron:

That sounds completely reasonable to me. I could get behind a system like that.

Since almost no one has taken up my challenge on offering a solution, I'll offer that even my Libertarian self looks at some of the Scandinavian insurance schemes with envy. Basic, essential, life-saving occurrences are covered by government run health coverage. Beyond that, private insurance is available for those who can afford and/or desire better. Sort of like, everyone gets a Hyundai Accent but can upgrade to a Genesis if they desire. Not everyone may want a Genesis (the fools!). So it's not forced on them. Costs for everyone are much lower and from what I've been able to read about it, most people are quite satisfied with the system. But here, we only get "all or nothing" choices which are a billion pages of rules and regulations that nobody wants or understands and we can't afford. Why are we, as Americans, so smart about so many things but so stupid about this issue?

Anti-stance wrote: In reply to Beer Baron: That sounds completely reasonable to me. I could get behind a system like that.

I think a system like this only works when there is a mandate to buy healthcare.

I am a healthy person. I'm mostly just worried about major injuries. I figure for a basic check-up or simple outpatient visit (like the ear infection I got), I am better off paying out of pocket than having insurance.

Because I'm healthy and on a budget as a student, and major injuries are statistically low probability, I probably wouldn't have purchased insurance if I wasn't required to. But because healthy people like me are required, that drives individual costs way down. Low enough that it is comfortable for me to afford that insurance that I find really nice to have.

In reply to Beer Baron:

I think there is a way to accomplish more reasonable health care cost without giving the power to the feds to force someone to buy something. I don't think the next thing is going to be everyone buy a Chevy Volt or anything, but there will be sometime in the future where this individual mandate case may be used to push something else on us. I am not going to go all crazy like some of the talking heads are and say we are on our way to North Korean dictatorships though.

In reply to Anti-stance:

I do not see this as a slippery slope.