I was just reading a story about a history professor getting knock down a notch for plagiarizing.
As I as thinking about it, is it even possible to write a new history book without copying from an old one? After a while, no one is around that was there in the first place and all we have to go from is the original text that is passed down.
What is the hives take on it?
Apparently some colleges use software to recognize plagiarism in term papers. One of my son's best friends got expelled when he got busted for it. Looks like the prof got busted.
Usually plagiarism in this case means "copy & paste" rather than borrowing ideas. That's what the software tends to detect.
There's a big difference between copy/paste and distilling information from multiple sources.
Ultimately though, doesn't this lead to a watering down or introduction of potentially bad data?
Seems to me that a good history book (at a college level at least, and partially at the high school level) should be almost as much citation of original sources and attributed quotes as it is "new" material. As you say, the author wasn't there in the first place...
Honestly, I'd be more worried if they weren't plagerizing.....
GSmith wrote: Ultimately though, doesn't this lead to a watering down or introduction of potentially bad data? Seems to me that a good history book (at a college level at least, and partially at the high school level) should be almost as much citation of original sources and attributed quotes as it is "new" material. As you say, the author wasn't there in the first place...
All theories are potentially bad, just as they are potentially good. Using the information to generate a new idea is part of scholarship- and how is that accepted.
History is an odd one- because the interpretation of events is always in the eye of the beholder. Good, bad, important, irrelevant- it very much depends on what story you want to tell. While one can do that somewhat in the more hardcore sciences, the issue of repeatable tests binds a lot of science.
I wonder, will society grind to a halt as plagiarism tests become more foolproof and we discover we've already passed the requisite number of monkeys on typewriters to render new phraseology impossible...
This is my field, so I can give you some idea of what it looks like from the inside.
Construction of any new work of history basically falls into one of two categories: work based on new primary source evidence (new archives opened, new documents discovered, etc.) or work based on a new interpretation of existing primary source evidence (new theories, new approaches, interdisciplinary studies, etc.). In either case, the author must adequately and accurately cite their sources so that others can look at them to determine their validity in both relevance and interpretation. Works of history based solely on secondary sources are not really considered credible in the academic world.
Plagiarism is any form of passing off as your own work that is not yours. This means words, ideas, theories, and interpretations. For academic integrity to mean anything, these have to be enforced on everyone, but particularly on professors, given their responsibility for instruction.
I deal with it almost every semester. I've had to file more reports of plagiarism than I can count, and this is after telling students on day one that I can and will fail them if I find it in any form.
Is it still plagiarism if you cite where you got it from. Was taught to cite when I wrote term papers. Even saw a computer program that would just about write a term paper and cited the whole paper.
No, if you cite your source correctly, you can (and indeed, must) use information that originated with others. Plagiarism is strictly the act of failing to provide attribution for the work of others and passing it off as your own.
One of my nephews was telling me that at his college, students were getting dinged for plagiarism when they used the same text in more than paper. This was stuff where the student was the author.
It kind of blew my mind. How do you plagiarize yourself? 
Type Q wrote: One of my nephews was telling me that at his college, students were getting dinged for plagiarism when they used the same text in more than paper. This was stuff where the student was the author. It kind of blew my mind. How do you plagiarize yourself?
It's not plagiarism, but it is academic dishonesty. Each paper is supposed to be a new, original work.
My college took its honor code very seriously - I don't think you could be expelled just for plagiarism, but between the damage to your GPA and the enforced "separation" from the college, it was made clear that you'd be better off somewhere else. Expelling students is so passé (and probably hurts some US News metric).
My senior year, the President of the college was found to have plagiarized one of his speeches. He resigned over the incident. It's now the first thing that pops up when you Google his name + the college. Twenty-two years there, nine as President, and he made some big, tough changes that really made the place better (academically & socially). But plagiarism is how he'll be remembered.
You have to cite your sources. If you cite them it becomes not plagiarism. It's really just not giving people credit for work previously done.
Type Q wrote: It kind of blew my mind. How do you plagiarize yourself?
Ask John Fogerty.
I suspect plagiarizing yourself is less plagiarizing, and more just simply being lazy by submitting the same answer for different questions.
Text books are a joke anyway. All historical occurrences should be retold like Drunk History.
I got "busted" for plagiarism by one of my History professors when I was in college. I put quotations around "busted" for a reason.
This was a early-medieval Europe course, and the professor and course material was really hard to follow. While most of my other classes were a breeze that semester, I had a hard time with this one, so I stayed after class for extra help. At the end of the semester, I had to do a paper on the Norman invasion of southern Italy, and I remember reading and studying for days on end for that. In my extra help sessions, I asked specifically how to approach the paper, and got some tips from the professor. I slapped together a paper, felt good about it, and passed it in. A week later, it gets handed back to me with a D on it, stating in red scribble that I plagiarized much of the paper! I did EXACTLY as she asked, and that was what I got. I never copied ideas or text out of the book.
Turns out the professor's husband was really sick and dying while I had that course, and that may have played into the bad grade. I wasn't the only one who ended up with a bad grade in that class or on that paper.
SilverFleet wrote: I got "busted" for plagiarism by one of my History professors when I was in college. I put quotations around "busted" for a reason. This was a early-medieval Europe course, and the professor and course material was really hard to follow. While most of my other classes were a breeze that semester, I had a hard time with this one, so I stayed after class for extra help. At the end of the semester, I had to do a paper on the Norman invasion of southern Italy, and I remember reading and studying for days on end for that. In my extra help sessions, I asked specifically how to approach the paper, and got some tips from the professor. I slapped together a paper, felt good about it, and passed it in. A week later, it gets handed back to me with a D on it, stating in red scribble that I plagiarized much of the paper! I did EXACTLY as she asked, and that was what I got. I never copied ideas or text out of the book.
Whatever the reason behind her accusation, this is a great example of why so many students don't understand what plagiarism really is. FWIW, whenever I have to confront a student with an accusation of plagiarism, I come to them with their work, with the specific passages underlined, and copies of the source or sources from which information was taken (the vast majority of cases are simply cut-and-paste). I give them a chance to explain, and depending on how they approach it, I determine how best to deal with it. But no student ever walks away from the encounter still ignorant of what plagiarism is.
A colleague of mine was reading a student term paper, when he thought he recognized some of the material. He did a search and discovered the student was plagiarizing the prof! Doh! I've had first year students hand in work with cut and paste plagiarism when they didn't even bother to change the font to match the rest of the document. If you're going to cheat, at least put some effort into it!
In reply to 02Pilot:
The problem could have been either with the source material (In this case, it was Robert Guiscard, a Norman who ended up starting a principality in southern Italy because he was bored) or with the professor. I remember that the source material was scarce, and only a few books in the school library even had anything on the guy. These were old, Ron Burgundy-esque leather bound books, too. I definitely wasn't copying. And the professor didn't really touch upon this guy specifically in class, so that was out as an excuse. She never gave me an explanation, and went on sabbatical because of her husband immediately after the semester, so I never bothered to ask.
travellering wrote: I wonder, will society grind to a halt as plagiarism tests become more foolproof and we discover we've already passed the requisite number of monkeys on typewriters to render new phraseology impossible...
Look at new movies. And before people go "everyone has been complaining about this forever", that doesn't make it any less true.
The Hoff wrote: Text books are a joke anyway. All historical occurrences should be retold like Drunk History.
I prefer Epic Rap Battles of History, but to each their own.
Just make both required viewing in high school education and they'll be good 
Appleseed wrote:Type Q wrote: It kind of blew my mind. How do you plagiarize yourself?Ask John Fogerty.
Was Fogerty accused of plagiarism? He thought he was sued for singing like himself.
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