In reply to TheGloriousW :
And if we're talking IT, don't forget the take-home 8h+ unpaid home project. Yeah, right.
In reply to TheGloriousW :
And if we're talking IT, don't forget the take-home 8h+ unpaid home project. Yeah, right.
The new job I just started, the initial phone interview was on a Friday afternoon on the way home and the in person was broken up into two visits on Saturday morning. Other interviews were before or after work. If it was before work one day, I was very upfront that I had to be on the road by a certain time to get to work. Never had an issue or objection to that.
My son just interviewed for an assistant professor position at 6 different universities.
Two day interviews, two dinners, presentation of his research, student one-on-one, tour of lab equipment, and lunch with other department heads.
Going from my previous employer to my current 12 years ago, my boss at the time was contacted by the hiring company's recruiter (who used to work for us) and told her he was going to poach me. She gave me the job description and told me to go on the interview (she knew, while I didn't, that they were getting ready to outsource our entire department)
Latest was a move from one division of my company to another, still have to do the whole interview song and dance but I was up front with my current manager about it and he understood the reasons (relocation to be closer to my ailing father) The skype interview coincided with a trip to corp headquarters overseas so I took the call at night from my hotel and the in person was blessed and paid for by the company, flew down in the morning, interviewed/toured for 4 hours, flew home that night.
Other times it was much as others suggested, phone interviews in the car or a private room at the office, in face was a sick day or personal day.
Suprf1y said:In reply to BoxheadTim :
I meant the half to full day interviews. That's nuts
For my current job, I had three hour or two long phone interviews, a lot of e-mail back and forth, and a half day long in-person interview, not all in that order either.
Suprf1y said:If you need to call in sick or take an emergency day use the most embarrassing excuse you can think of. That way nobody will want to bring it up for any reason.
hemorrhoids works, but use your imagination
The best excuse ever is "My kid E36 M3 themselves at school." Unfortunately if you don't have a school age kid you're stuck with "I E36 M3 myself."
TheGloriousW said:Suprf1y said:In reply to BoxheadTim :
I meant the half to full day interviews. That's nuts
I've done that multiple times. It's not abnormal depending on your level.
I had a three day interview. Granted, it was evaluating me on heavy equipment, but 3 days is a bastard to pull off.
mtn said:The two-way street thing bears repeating for a different, though related issue: Remember, you're interviewing them. They need to find out if you're right for the job; you need to find out if they're/the job is right for you.
This, so much this.
In reply to pointofdeparture :
I think honesty is the best policy. It's time you realize that with the current job market you have some real value above your paycheck.
Take a vacation day and explain the attraction the new position offers. If they fire you they are the losers. Finding your replacement will be time consuming and expensive for them.
If it's a management position or better pay, or just working for a less critical boss your courage to be honest might get rewarded and at a minimum they will know where they failed as an employer.
AngryCorvair said:How much notice does your current employer require to approve a request for a 1/2-day Of vacation?
On the other hand how much notice do they give you if they need to let you go?
It is a two way street in ways it hasn't been for decades.
If they are stressed for you taking time off maybe they should realize how understaffed they are or how important you are to them
Honesty is the best policy here. If your manager is not a total half-wit, tell them you are looking at a career change. Give the reasons. If you are out no matter what because you hate your commute/coworkers/company culture, thats fine. Tell them that. They may give you options, and if they don't, you really haven't lost anything. If you say "I love working here but I don't love my position, i think moving to XYZ department would be very fulfilling and I can bring a lot of my experience from working ABC for the past 123 years", there is a good chance they will make concessions to you. And if they don't, again, you really haven't lost anything. If its all about the benjamins, tell them that. "I am currently paid in the bottom third for someone with my skillset and qualifications. I would like to continue to work here but not at my current pay grade." Companies have a lot of flexibility, maybe not in base pay but you can negotiate bonuses, additional time away from work, etc.
My wife and I were contemplating a move outside of commuting distance last year, and at the first inkling of it, I went to my boss/owner of the company and asked if I could keep my job if I moved several states away from our office. He immediately replied that I absolutely could. Helps that we are a progressive company and my coworker/teammate lives in Michigan and has always worked remote.
When my buddy took a job at a big red tool company, they were strict on vacation. He was able to negotiate a yearly bonus that was equivalent to two weeks of pay and then could take additional "unpaid" time off. Unconventional solution but a great work-around and gave him the satisfaction he needed.
In reply to pointofdeparture :
Just came here to say, username checks out.
Glad to hear that I am not the only one that thinks this is a giant PITA.
The full(ish) story: in my current role I feel that my talents are underutilized and I am constantly doing grunt work well outside of my job description. In 2018 I was promoted and told my responsibilities would change and a raise was coming at review time. Well, guess what didn't change and what didn't come at review time due to every excuse in the world?
Shortly after that, about 7 months ago I had a heart to heart with my boss & his boss about how I am feeling and very honestly brought up that I feel there are better opportunities for me elsewhere and that if they want me to stay they need to demonstrate to me that I am worth it. I was told they understand my concerns and would be working on it but they see me as a major asset to the company and can not afford to lose me.
Well here we are at the start of the new year, nothing has changed, once every couple months they sit me down to tell me they are still working on it and can't afford to lose me but the timeline is constantly changing and they sure haven't demonstrated it. Last week they called a company meeting and promoted a bunch of sales guys right in front of me. My boss was tripping over himself after that meeting to tell me that they haven't forgotten about me and something will come "in a few months" but at this point I am done being strung along. If they really can't afford to lose me someone would have thrown me a bone by now. I was very open and candid about my unhappiness and basically received lip service in return, so I'm done.
Other factors pushing me away: I spend 2 hours commuting back and forth to this job (45min-1hr each way), the benefits are awful, and there is really no further growth potential due to the size of the organization and heavy emphasis on sales growth over other areas of the business anyway.
Prospective company is closer to home, much bigger organization with better growth potential, I would be learning new career skills right off the bat, better benefits package, etc. And they agreed to schedule the phone screen outside of my current work hours so that's a plus!
In reply to pointofdeparture :
Good luck, kid!
pointofdeparture said:Glad to hear that I am not the only one that thinks this is a giant PITA.
The full(ish) story: in my current role I feel that my talents are underutilized and I am constantly doing grunt work well outside of my job description. In 2018 I was promoted and told my responsibilities would change and a raise was coming at review time. Well, guess what didn't change and what didn't come at review time due to every excuse in the world?
Shortly after that, about 7 months ago I had a heart to heart with my boss & his boss about how I am feeling and very honestly brought up that I feel there are better opportunities for me elsewhere and that if they want me to stay they need to demonstrate to me that I am worth it. I was told they understand my concerns and would be working on it but they see me as a major asset to the company and can not afford to lose me.
Well here we are at the start of the new year, nothing has changed, once every couple months they sit me down to tell me they are still working on it and can't afford to lose me but the timeline is constantly changing and they sure haven't demonstrated it. Last week they called a company meeting and promoted a bunch of sales guys right in front of me. My boss was tripping over himself after that meeting to tell me that they haven't forgotten about me and something will come "in a few months" but at this point I am done being strung along. If they really can't afford to lose me someone would have thrown me a bone by now. I was very open and candid about my unhappiness and basically received lip service in return, so I'm done.
Other factors pushing me away: I spend 2 hours commuting back and forth to this job (45min-1hr each way), the benefits are awful, and there is really no further growth potential due to the size of the organization and heavy emphasis on sales growth over other areas of the business anyway.
Prospective company is closer to home, much bigger organization with better growth potential, I would be learning new career skills right off the bat, better benefits package, etc. And they agreed to schedule the phone screen outside of my current work hours so that's a plus!
I like your logic and the reasonable way you have dealt with it. You are right to look and for your sake I hope you get the position you want.
pointofdeparture said:Glad to hear that I am not the only one that thinks this is a giant PITA.
The full(ish) story: in my current role I feel that my talents are underutilized and I am constantly doing grunt work well outside of my job description. In 2018 I was promoted and told my responsibilities would change and a raise was coming at review time. Well, guess what didn't change and what didn't come at review time due to every excuse in the world?
Shortly after that, about 7 months ago I had a heart to heart with my boss & his boss about how I am feeling and very honestly brought up that I feel there are better opportunities for me elsewhere and that if they want me to stay they need to demonstrate to me that I am worth it. I was told they understand my concerns and would be working on it but they see me as a major asset to the company and can not afford to lose me.
Well here we are at the start of the new year, nothing has changed, once every couple months they sit me down to tell me they are still working on it and can't afford to lose me but the timeline is constantly changing and they sure haven't demonstrated it. Last week they called a company meeting and promoted a bunch of sales guys right in front of me. My boss was tripping over himself after that meeting to tell me that they haven't forgotten about me and something will come "in a few months" but at this point I am done being strung along. If they really can't afford to lose me someone would have thrown me a bone by now. I was very open and candid about my unhappiness and basically received lip service in return, so I'm done.
Other factors pushing me away: I spend 2 hours commuting back and forth to this job (45min-1hr each way), the benefits are awful, and there is really no further growth potential due to the size of the organization and heavy emphasis on sales growth over other areas of the business anyway.
Prospective company is closer to home, much bigger organization with better growth potential, I would be learning new career skills right off the bat, better benefits package, etc. And they agreed to schedule the phone screen outside of my current work hours so that's a plus!
Based on sentiments relayed above you have already been open with them. Don't go out of your way to hide that you are looking for a new job, don't feel bad about ducking out to take calls or go to interviews. Keep your nose clean, but remember to look out for #1 first.
Since you've told them your position and they've not followed through, you owe them nothing.
Sounds to me like you have to allocate your skills more effectively by letting this new company give you a raise. Not that you need us to tell you that, of course, but we got your back.
BT DT. Much happier person now.
3.5 hours commuting would require the most amazing job pay and benefits package ever. Sounds like you have none of those. Let the hunt begin!!!
The weird part about it is I still feel a little guilty! It's so strange how you can get employee Stockholm syndrome like that.
The past year has taught me that I am kinda getting boned and definitely have more opportunities elsewhere, but part of my mind is still doing that weird "I shouldn't be doing this, they really are going to give me that promotion at some point, I'm just being impatient" etc etc.
I'm definitely not going to stop looking for new opportunities and truly know that it's time to go, but man, it's so weird how that is.
I DO know that when I finally do land elsewhere and give notice that I can expect the world's biggest guilt trip and suddenly all sorts of numbers and perks and details about the changes I was waiting for that never materialized will come out of the woodwork...that'll be a fun time!
dculberson said:3.5 hours commuting would require the most amazing job pay and benefits package ever. Sounds like you have none of those. Let the hunt begin!!!
I may have done a bad job describing that, it's 2 hours total per day (each one-way trip is 45 minutes best case, an hour or more worst case) but yeah it's still not great and 7.5 hours of my life I lose to commuting each week best case.
pointofdeparture said:The past year has taught me that I am kinda getting boned and definitely have more opportunities elsewhere, but part of my mind is still doing that weird "I shouldn't be doing this, they really are going to give me that promotion at some point, I'm just being impatient" etc etc.
They are COUNTING on that. Look at it this way: You are the CEO of your own personal corporation. You sell your services to your employer in exchange for a paycheck. As the CEO of yourself, are you maximizing your profit and quality of life?
I've never felt bad about leaving a job or looking for a new one.
Not only will your coworkers look out for themselves, but the company is doing the exact same. No reason why you can't, either.
Good luck with the interview. If they make a counter offer tell them the time for that was a year ago.
In reply to OHSCrifle :
I've mentioned this recently - after years of crap at my last job I give my notice only to have the GM immediately ask me "is there anything we can do to get you to stay"?
I reply; "I've been telling you for five years what I'm looking for. At this point there is nothing you can do". So I moved on and doubled my commissions.
Plan on doing the same.
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