How to fix completely lousy car loans

In reply to tuna55:

In reply to docwyte: What exactly is the point of your posts?

I think some of you guys are being overly harsh on docwyte. I find it interesting that some people who ask for advice on how to get out of poverty disregard, ignore, or even attack people who have done it and share their expirience. Is docwyte's approach for everyone? Probably not, but it sure beats all the tales of woe and victimhood, which will do much less to help the subject of this thread. And it's certainly nothing to condem. In his first post, he gave good advice that has been suspiciously absent from most of the other posts- improving the income side of the ledger. Even if that is all you get out of his posts, that is solid advice.

On the education front- I agree that there is a lot of opportunity to better educate students about financial decisions. But there is tons of info out there- it's just boring to a lot of people, they would rather follow the Kardashians or watch the ballgame. I've learned more about managing my finances by listening to Dave Ramsey on my drive home then I ever did in school, and it cost me nothing, other than giving up a bit of my music listening time.

Tuna, I commend you for what you a trying to accomplish. I've been in your position before. She sounds like she is ready to put down the shovel and climb out of the hole she dug. She just needs a hand to get out. It's great that you want to give her a hand, but if you really want to help her up, don't dismiss advice on how to teach her to get rid of the shovel.

docwyte wrote: .... you shouldn't have to suffer your entire life because of some bad decisions made in your youth. ....

Your first post sounded to me like that was exactly what you were suggesting. That is the way it came across even if that wasn't your point. If you said "I was once in way over my head financially and here is how I got out of that hole", you might have more people listening your thinking.

Boost_Crazy wrote: In reply to tuna55:

In reply to docwyte: What exactly is the point of your posts?

I think some of you guys are being overly harsh on docwyte.

That's not how I read it. I see two posts aside from the point with vitriol and contradicting conclusions.

Nothing helpful.

For the record, I have posted about updating her resume a few times. I have helped her do just that two days ago and I hope to help her apply for a job and write a cover letter today.

In reply to tuna55:

I don't care what anybody says about you, you are a good man.

spitfirebill wrote: In reply to tuna55: I don't care what anybody says about you, you are a good man.

Thanks, dude!

I try a lot but am amazed at how little I can actually do. I hope to really help her here.

Dr. Hess wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

Patrick wrote: Does she have any credit cards? I would recommend she get a couple if not, if she can use them responsibly. By responsibly i mean charge something small every month and pay it to build up her credit, and it would help her score to have more available credit versus her balances(ie the car loan). I got a 13000 limit card a few months ago and my score went up just because my balances to available credit went down significantly. Not because i paid more on my truck but because citi gave me more credit. That's all i use all my cards for except the one i get hotel rewards from.

I wonder. I'll ask.

I think that's a bad idea. I think it is a whole lot like someone that is a recovering heroin addict keeping 100 bucks worth of smack around to show the world how clean they are.

Hess is absolutely right. Rebuilding credit is not the biggest issue here -getting to a financially tenable situation is. Giving a credit card to someone who is this close to the edge of not making it month to month is just a recipe for drowning her in more debt slowly.

Getting close to patio territory.

Tuna, back on page 4 there were rumblings of getting something together to help pitch in. Any new developments on that front?

(I'll admit to skimming through a few posts so I might have missed it)

Cheers buddy.

psteav wrote:

Dr. Hess wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

Patrick wrote: Does she have any credit cards? I would recommend she get a couple if not, if she can use them responsibly. By responsibly i mean charge something small every month and pay it to build up her credit, and it would help her score to have more available credit versus her balances(ie the car loan). I got a 13000 limit card a few months ago and my score went up just because my balances to available credit went down significantly. Not because i paid more on my truck but because citi gave me more credit. That's all i use all my cards for except the one i get hotel rewards from.

I wonder. I'll ask.

I think that's a bad idea. I think it is a whole lot like someone that is a recovering heroin addict keeping 100 bucks worth of smack around to show the world how clean they are.

Hess is absolutely right. Rebuilding credit is not the biggest issue here -getting to a financially tenable situation is. Giving a credit card to someone who is this close to the edge of not making it month to month is just a recipe for drowning her in more debt slowly.

Not necessarily--I don't think that they're the answer in this situation, but my wife and I had a couple of recent events that really would be stretching our budget. Instead, I got a new credit card with 0% interest for 15 months. I put all the expenses for the next few weeks on that, now I have what is essentially a free 15 month loan for 3.5 weeks of expenses. Our AC got fixed, our dog got medical attention, and it ultimately comes at a price of only $200 a month for about 3 months instead of $800 now.

(Real details are a little more complicated than that, we would have been fine without it, but I didn't want to move any money around to do this)

But yeah, I agree that credit cards aren't going to help in this situation.

In reply to mtn:

You're not on the edge of not making it month to month if you have money to move around. Not saying you didn't have a financially stressful situation, but if you have assets to tap, you're not on the edge financially. Credit card did work for you - and if you do get behind on it, you have the ability to pay it off by tapping that asset.

She doesn't have that option, and giving someone the illusion being able to make it just a little less stressful month-to-month by letting them put just a couple of "luxury" purchases on them every month to make things bearable....and before you know it she's in even worse trouble. Statistically, this is the most likely thing to happen. I have seen it hundreds of times in clients I represent every day.

Credit cards are a tool and can be a very useful tool. They can also be a very dangerous tool if misused, which is very easy to do. So I agree in this case caution is probably the better course. Paying off her car loan along with making sure other bills are paid on time will also improve her credit rating.

In reply to tuna55:

That's not how I read it. I see two posts aside from the point with vitriol and contradicting conclusions. Nothing helpful.

I reread his posts, and you are right in that most of what he said didn't need to be said- it applied to what happened before your friend got into this hole, and was not meant to be the topic of discussion. I do fail to see the vitriol. That said, you should apply that same standard to many/ most of the other posts in this thread. If her prior decisions are irrelevant to this discussion, than so should be any other opinions about circumstances that put her in this situation. They should also be labeled as not helpful, as they are also aside from the point. If you want to narrow the focus of this discussion to the here and now, which your original post did suggest, it's your thread.

Driven5 wrote: In reply to Duke: Like hard work and sacrifice, success is not binary. It's a spectrum. And of the numerous elements that contribute to success, I would easily argue that hard work and sacrifice are not even the most important two. So while yes, some amount of 'hard work' and some amount of 'sacrifice' may typically be necessary to succeed...The all too common self-righteous implication that unsuccessful people simply have not worked hard enough and/or sacrificed enough, that simply working harder and/or sacrificing more is likely to produce greater success, or that more successful people simply worked harder and/or sacrificed more, is purely a fallacy.

Youre right on those points.

However, somewhere in the equation that leads to success is responsible decision making, and planning, and diligence.

Those 3 ARE required for success. The others you mentioned are ancillaries.

Sounds like this girl has learned her lesson, and is working on all 3 fronts.

Unfortunately, the path that leads to ruin is on a FAAAARRR faster timeline than the road back from it.

Lucky for her, she has some support (Tuna is probably a godsend), and the desire to change. Those are 2 of the greatest tools one can have available to them when trying to turn things around

Hungary Bill wrote: Getting close to patio territory. Tuna, back on page 4 there were rumblings of getting something together to help pitch in. Any new developments on that front? (I'll admit to skimming through a few posts so I might have missed it) Cheers buddy.

no gofundmes or anything, but Paul and I are working on something.

In reply to Boost_Crazy:

fair

In reply to Boost_Crazy:

Since I am the one who fired some of the "vitriol", maybe I can explain it...

This was one of the most positive and uplifting threads I've seen in a long time. Restored my faith a bit. Doc choose to turn that for some unknown reason and make it nasty. He took a dump in the community living room for his own selfish reasons. I didn't like it.

I lean conservative in most ways, and get upset when people claiming to be conservatives say E36 M3 like that. That's not what Conservatism is. When people talk like that, it makes me want to vote for Hillary. That is a very unpleasant thought.

And the condescending attitude really bugged me. I was as nice as I was able when I explained my experiences with HfH but the bottom line is that EVERYONE in this country is so darned privileged that we are completely clueless how the real world works. It's frustrating to hear whiney privileged people tell me how bad things once were and how hard they worked to make things better. It's simply not true. I supported 4 people on less than half that amount, but I'm still aware enough to say I am both wealthy and privileged, and very fortunate to have won the Lottery of Life to some extent.

The comments were worthless and uneccesary. It's not that I'm angry or intended vitriol, but it is certainly frustrating to see a glimmer of hope in a guy like Tuna, only to have someone wander in and try to Squash it for some unknown reason.

I apologize if my words were perceived as vitriolic. But I won't apologize for the sentiment. It was just the truth, even if I am sometimes clumsy at choosing words.

tuna55 wrote: I try a lot but am amazed at how little I can actually do. I hope to really help her here.

Don't sell yourself short.

My wife gets to help quite a few people in tough situations for a living, and I've managed to learn a thing or two from her over the years.

One is that you can't help people who don't want it or aren't ready for it, so as hard as it may be sometimes, you can't overexert yourself or dwell on those situations either.

The other is that for somebody who does want and is ready to make a change, a little help can go a LONG way...And finally just having an advocate on their side (often for the first time) can make all the difference in the world to them.

No matter what happens in the long run here, you should rest well knowing you have done your part to try to help her find a better life for herself...And that is an amazing thing!

Speaking of which, any word on if the child care voucher program might be applicable?

.

4cylndrfury wrote: However, somewhere in the equation that leads to success is responsible decision making, and planning, and diligence. Those 3 ARE required for success. The others you mentioned are ancillaries.

I couldn't agree more, although I lump those all together in the "working smarter" category. Unfortunately, even being provided with the opportunity to actually learn such 'fundamental' concepts is largely an under-recognized privilege.

The BTE (Basic Tuna Education) combined with her motivation (another absolutely essential element for success) has a lot of potential for her to break the cycle. And with any luck, it'll all be enough to finally tip the scales in her favor.

It can be frustrating helping people sometimes. A friend who's barely scraping by delivering pizza and driving for Uber just bought (fully financed) a brand new, top-of-the-line, $30k Prius for his driving activities. Because of his accident history, his insurance alone will be $6k a year for minimal coverage, and he's going to get whacked with a property tax bill that he's not expecting, either. Although I strongly disagreed with his decision to buy a new car, I vetted the deal he was getting, and just yesterday reviewed his insurance quote to give him some advice on coverage.

Last year, my wife and I spent hours searching, buying, and fixing a car that we gave to him (https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/the-versatile/120204/page1/). Just two weeks ago I helped him flush $400 of Nissan-branded unicorn tears (otherwise known as CVT fluid) through his car because the guy who runs the grill at the pizza restaurant he delivers for somehow got a ton of coolant into his transmission while "flushing the radiator."

I have to say I can relate to both perspectives. On the one hand, I know that I'm personally called to sacrificially help others. And on the other hand, there are times when you have to stand by and support them when you know they're making a huge mistake. It's a lot like being a parent I'm comforted by the fact that people have supported me over the years when they knew I was making a huge mistake

It's a delicate balance between helping someone out, letting them make their own decisions, and somehow being at peace with it all when it goes sideways. I will say, however, that my most gratifying work on a vehicle was to help someone have basic transportation who wouldn't have survived without it. My friend above is a great example of this, without basic transportation, he has no way to make a living for himself, his wife, and their two small children. So I'm still going to help...

In reply to SVreX:

In reply to Boost_Crazy: Since I am the one who fired some of the "vitriol", maybe I can explain it... This was one of the most positive and uplifting threads I've seen in a long time. Restored my faith a bit. Doc choose to turn that for some unknown reason and make it nasty. He took a dump in the community living room for his own selfish reasons. I didn't like it. I lean conservative in most ways, and get upset when people claiming to be conservatives say E36 M3 like that. That's not what Conservatism is. When people talk like that, it makes me want to vote for Hillary. That is a very unpleasant thought. And the condescending attitude really bugged me. I was as nice as I was able when I explained my experiences with HfH but the bottom line is that EVERYONE in this country is so darned privileged that we are completely clueless how the real world works. It's frustrating to hear whiney privileged people tell me how bad things once were and how hard they worked to make things better. It's simply not true. I supported 4 people on less than half that amount, but I'm still aware enough to say I am both wealthy and privileged, and very fortunate to have won the Lottery of Life to some extent. The comments were worthless and uneccesary. It's not that I'm angry or intended vitriol, but it is certainly frustrating to see a glimmer of hope in a guy like Tuna, only to have someone wander in and try to Squash it for some unknown reason. I apologize if my words were perceived as vitriolic. But I won't apologize for the sentiment. It was just the truth, even if I am sometimes clumsy at choosing words.

I never accused you of being vitriolic, I defended Doc when he was accused of it. I think vitrioI is one of the most misused words today. I get where you are coming from, but that doesn't make it right, and certainly doesn't justify your response in my eyes. While I agree that parts of his posts were not the best fit for this topic, as I mentioned in the post above, It's quite a stretch to say that he was was making it nasty and taking a dump in the community living room. You find this topic positive and uplifting, but don't see that in Doc's example of working his way through med school? He was expressing his views, much like you are expressing your views. Just because your views don't agree doesn't make his nasty and yours righteous. I do agree that he should have left the conservative part out. You were equally off topic with many of your posts, and as well intended as they may have been- they could have been called just as pointless to the topic at hand. Doc gave his expirience and opinion. You gave your expirience and opinion. Neither is "better" than the other, and neither is directly applicable to the problem at hand- which is a math problem.

Now personally, I'd like to be able to hear both of your experiences and opinions, as I think they both have merit and something that can be learned from. But that won't work if some people get shouted down. And since it's easier to control if we just tell everyone to keep their opinions to themselves, so that's where we usually end up. Which I'm guessing is why Tuna tried to avoid this tangent from the start, which most of us failed to follow. Sorry Tuna.

Hahaha it's okay guys. We're all good.

I'm looking into bankruptcy with her at the pm advice of one of you, helping her write a resume and apply for a better job. My wife is already watching her kids when she can. She applied for (and was denied) refinancing on the car. IVe asked her to call her insurance also.

We're getting somewhere. She's just a month or two away from missing the rent.

I think you're on the right track, increasing income is the best way out of this situation in the long-term. What are her skills, and what are some of the companies in the area?

You can also look creatively to reduce some of the expense of the children, as an example local dental schools have students who perform cleanings for free so they can learn. Generally, there are a lot of programs out there that may be able to help, it's just tough finding them.

In reply to Boost_Crazy:

You're right. You didn't say "vitriolic", you said "overly harsh".

Silly me. My bad.

tuna55 wrote: I'm looking into bankruptcy with her at the pm advice of one of you

Be careful with this. Make sure she can support herself without any loans or credit cards for the next 7 years. But I suspect it is the best option available.

In reply to mtn:

Be careful with this. Make sure she can support herself without any loans or credit cards for the next 7 years. But I suspect it is the best option available.

Yes, tread carefully with bankruptcy. It may be the best thing for year one and two, but could be a mistake later. She's young, he circumstances can improve pretty quickly. Unless there is other debt, the car alone doesn't seem to be enough to justify it. I don't know too much about the details, but I don't think she would be able to keep the car. I know people who declared bankruptcy when young and kicked themselves a couple years later. Don't forget to check what other consequences might be out there. How much worse is a bankruptcy than bad credit for things like insurance rates, housing background checks, employment background checks (can they even still check credit? I know it was controversial.) if you get to that point, maybe it would be better to just let them repo the car and take the credit hit rather then a full blown bankruptcy?

Edit: I forgot about the EX. He may not be contributing much now, but is there a chance of him improving his situation and paying more support any time soon?

tuna55 wrote:

Hungary Bill wrote: Getting close to patio territory. Tuna, back on page 4 there were rumblings of getting something together to help pitch in. Any new developments on that front? (I'll admit to skimming through a few posts so I might have missed it) Cheers buddy.

no gofundmes or anything, but Paul and I are working on something.

Cool man. Let me know if there's anything I can do to pitch in.

Hungary Bill wrote:

tuna55 wrote:

Hungary Bill wrote: Getting close to patio territory. Tuna, back on page 4 there were rumblings of getting something together to help pitch in. Any new developments on that front? (I'll admit to skimming through a few posts so I might have missed it) Cheers buddy.

no gofundmes or anything, but Paul and I are working on something.

Cool man. Let me know if there's anything I can do to pitch in.

^This.

I'm not on here very often and pm's don't seem to work for me, I assume since my email is through yahoo, but I'd like to help.