T.J. wrote: The leather belt I am wearing right now was made in India. A belt. Made of Leather. India. It is the best belt I have though, but it is only a few months old.
I can't find a belt that last more then a couple months....
T.J. wrote: The leather belt I am wearing right now was made in India. A belt. Made of Leather. India. It is the best belt I have though, but it is only a few months old.
I can't find a belt that last more then a couple months....
From the NY Times article fritzch and chuckles mentioned:
Apple executives say that going overseas, at this point, is their only option. One former executive described how the company relied upon a Chinese factory to revamp iPhone manufacturing just weeks before the device was due on shelves. Apple had redesigned the iPhone’s screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight.
A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.
“The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.”
Right there is the problem. These employees may have jobs but they don't have lives. They are company cattle.
Next time you orgasm over how pretty your iPhone or any of its clones is, remember this.
ddavidv wrote: This is a topic I pay attention to, because I've been trying to get my brain to think about what needs to be done to reverse the situation. Conclusion: not much. The ship has sailed. America simply does not produce manufacturing goods much anymore. After the post WW II boom, things began to slide in the 1960s. Just look at the invasion of imported cars. American companies were complacent, labor unions gained too much power, govt regulations exploded. We are Great Britain. Most of the jobs are never coming back. Our society simply has moved, and priced itself, out of being a production based nation. We do a great job of inventing and designing the products that are made elsewhere, and that is where our business future lies. I wish it weren't so, but it is. Skilled service jobs and tech jobs are where our future economy will come from.
Despite our relatively tiny population, we still account for a large percentage of the world's manufacturing power. It wasn't until after the recession hit that China overtook us as the worlds largest manufacturing sector.
Even if a person isn't going to buy into American made goods, there are a lot of reasons to do you best to avoid buying things made in certain other countries.
carguy123 wrote: Politicians didn't make the jobs go overseas, the shi_ty bean counters, working within the shi_ty corporations, looking for short term gains, And lazy ass, self righteous, entitled 'merkuns did.
FTFY
Lets not get it twisted, yes "we" did this to ourselves, but not for the reasons everyone wants us to think.
The Company I work for produces goods here, in Mexico, and in China. Custom stuff is made here. Less custom stuff is made in Mexico. Bulk items are made in China.
Why?
Custom stuff is made here in Ohio because the custom stuff has to get to a customers door in 2 weeks or less...good luck making that happen when its made in Mexico, or has to take the slow boat from China.
Why dont we make everything here? The labor we need isnt terribly specialized, hell most people "know" how to do it already. Its the fact that Americans in general wont do perform this labor at a reasonable rate...tell an American in our plant that they need to do it better/faster, and theyll tell you to take this job and shove it.
Mexicans are willing to do the labor at a reasonable wage, at a reasonable rate, with a reasonable quality expectation in mind. And we pay the Mexicans what we pay our Americans - better than Minimum wage. Just tossing that out there for the bleeding heart-ers.
I take a lot of pride in the fact that at the end of the day, we pay Americans to make goods here in America. But it astonishes me that people, in this job-economy, are willing to walk away from a pretty good job, getting a very decent wage, with a good benefits package. SO often in fact, that we have no choice but to send the work elsewhere.
Before anyone wants to mention supply-side econ with me with regards to pay vs labor output for the position - we have raised the starting labor rate 3 times in as many years, trying like mad to keep the jobs here. Doesnt work. Attrition rates are the same. Americans dont want to do manual labor - at least not the stuff we are talking about in my plant. ANd we arent digging ditches or pouring steel - the jobs have you sitting at a desk, working with your hands, in a really very relaxed position. I am not really comfortable saying what exactly it is, but its unlikely that you would ever break a sweat doing this task - you could do it just as well at 80 years old as you could at 18 - just have to have some basic knowledge (which we will teach you if you want to learn), ok-sh eyesight, and the ability to read directions.
SO while I agree, buy American as often as you can - be vigilant, pay attention, and make the effort. But regulations and labor wages are not ALWAYS the factor that sends jobs elsewhere.
In reply to 4cylndrfury:
That makes me sad. I worked a temporary contract in an actual manufacturing facility that did profit sharing. During the 3 months I was there, it seemed that everyone was really motivated.
Despite our relatively tiny population, we still account for a large percentage of the world's manufacturing power. It wasn't until after the recession hit that China overtook us as the worlds largest manufacturing sector.
Which recession? We haven't been the leader in manufacturing for quite a while now.
I grew up doing manual labor. Mindless work for hour after hour. It was boring enough that I wanted out, but most of the people around me were happy to turn their brains off and do it. They didn't want any kind of job with any responsibility or where they had to do any thinking. I have ADD and didn't have that option.
Those guys are still out there.
carguy123 wrote: As Keith said "but because American manufacturers are becoming more competitive."
I don't think it actually has to do with the manufacturers themselves. It is a side-effect of a terrible economy. A weak dollar makes everyone else expensive and so it becomes cheaper to buy here.
When/if the economy recovers, the dollar becomes strong and the whole thing flips again.
carguy123 wrote:Despite our relatively tiny population, we still account for a large percentage of the world's manufacturing power. It wasn't until after the recession hit that China overtook us as the worlds largest manufacturing sector.Which recession? We haven't been the leader in manufacturing for quite a while now. I grew up doing manual labor. Mindless work for hour after hour. It was boring enough that I wanted out, but most of the people around me were happy to turn their brains off and do it. They didn't want any kind of job with any responsibility or where they had to do any thinking. I have ADD and didn't have that option. Those guys are still out there.
We were the leader by output until 2010.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:carguy123 wrote: As Keith said "but because American manufacturers are becoming more competitive."I don't think it actually has to do with the manufacturers themselves. It is a side-effect of a terrible economy. A weak dollar makes everyone else expensive and so it becomes cheaper to buy here. When/if the economy recovers, the dollar becomes strong and the whole thing flips again.
I started seeing this before 2008, before the economy cratered. The US manufacturers who are doing a good job are distinguishing themselves by being better at what they're doing. Better quality, better design work.
For example, QuaLex does our sheetmetal work. Not only do they produce good stuff and ship in a reasonable time, but they're responsive to problems and they get involved in the design phase. Sheetmetal work requires a different mindset, and they'll sometimes come up with designs we wouldn't that take advantage of how their material works. The design skills are a big part of why we keep going back and their commitment to producing a quality product in a timely manner is what keeps us buying from them.
In other words, if you want to compete with the world, do the best job you can. It's fun to blame regulations and recessions and the like, but it usually comes down to the company.
Keith wrote: I started seeing this before 2008, before the economy cratered. The US manufacturers who are doing a good job are distinguishing themselves by being better at what they're doing. Better quality, better design work. For example, ..... In other words, if you want to compete with the world, do the best job you can. It's fun to blame regulations and recessions and the like, but it usually comes down to the company.
I'm not blaming - I am observing first hand.
Machine/tool suppliers and manpower companies lost contracts with our big clients because they just could not be competitive on cost with foreign suppliers - the difference was staggering. It had nothing to do with quality, satisfaction, etc. The cost advantage outweighed the additional effort to manage and deal with crap product (that really isn't crap anymore). The pendulum is slowly swinging back and the decision has zero to do with anything except "Where can we get the best deal". Sad but true. When someone needs 20 million of something they don't seem to care a lick where they get it from as long as it pads the margin and is of "good enough" quality.
I'll admit that small machining jobs are far cheaper to do in China. Our brake line flare adapters - nobody in the US can touch the cost on those. We tried.
So shift your focus. Look at the added value you can add over simple mass production. That example of the rapid response of the iPhone factory is a good one. Never mind the effect on the workers, it was the attitude of the factory that mattered. They were willing to do what it took to get the job done. It could have been done (at a higher cost) without burning out the workforce. But how many companies would have simply dug in their heels and said "nope, it cannot be done"?
Is there something that can be learned from Switzerland? They have no raw materials to speak of. I'm assuming the workforce is really expensive. So they're known for high-value products: watches. Yes, I know many of them have Casio movements. But somehow, still, the watch industry survives.
The company I work for assembles one-time use medical kits. Our two largest volume kits were moved to China about 6 years ago. Beginning this summer they will be produced only in the USA. Tooling is being ordered today. The tooling will be made in USA too!
trucke wrote: The company I work for assembles one-time use medical kits. Our two largest volume kits were moved to China about 6 years ago. Beginning this summer they will be produced only in the USA. Tooling is being ordered today. The tooling will be made in USA too!
Nice!
One word: Walmart. 'nuff said.
Aeromoto wrote: One word: Walmart. 'nuff said.
You're gonna have to give me more than one word, because I want to know where you're going with that.
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:Aeromoto wrote: One word: Walmart. 'nuff said.You're gonna have to give me more than one word, because I want to know where you're going with that.
Walmart sells people cheap, Chinese E36 M3. I'm pretty sure that's where he's going.
Well Walmart has almost single handedly killed the mom-n-pop small businesses in rural areas.
They're evil to me anyways.
I have a box of granola bars here and it does not state where they were made. 
I wouldn't go there to by anything, but, if you just need a good laugh at the expense of another, Walmart is the place.
Taiden wrote: I have a box of granola bars here and it does not state where they were made.
Enjoy your cadmium 
http://articles.cnn.com/2007-07-26/living/china.products_1_china-pet-food-center-for-food-safety?_s=PM:LIVING
berkeley it
i think you meant "Some AMERICAN companies have proven that they really don't care how many Americans they poison and kill in pursuit of a dollar."
1988RedT2 wrote: Yeah, I try to draw the line at foodstuffs. Some Chinese companies have proven that they really don't care how many Americans they poison and kill in pursuit of a dollar.
ohms wrote: i think you meant "Some AMERICAN companies have proven that they really don't care how many Americans they poison and kill in pursuit of a dollar."1988RedT2 wrote: Yeah, I try to draw the line at foodstuffs. Some Chinese companies have proven that they really don't care how many Americans they poison and kill in pursuit of a dollar.
As I sit here in my college dining hall eating ????????? food, I came to this conclusion and I agree.
We can't find enough welders in the USA so we have the Chinese Contractor's do the work. (Is it that we can't find $12/hour welders?)
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/us-bridges-roads-built-chinese-firms-14594513
pete240z wrote: We can't find enough welders in the USA so we have the Chinese Contractor's do the work. (Is it that we can't find $12/hour welders?) http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/us-bridges-roads-built-chinese-firms-14594513
I think that goes back to unions. I try not to slam them, but when they are all expecting to be paid $30+ an hour, then yeah, someone's gonna bring in somebody who will do the same quality work for half the cost regardless if they're from another country.
I fear that if there is a "Rebuilding Roads" grant or something like high speed rail, unions will starts issues id they try to hire on non-union people.
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