In this thread I have learned that facts and figures hold no candle to feelings. No person should ever make more than $300k. Socialism is great and worked for everyone who tried it and lastly corporations are all evil.
ok. Well that pretty much covers it.
In reply to bobzilla :
That's just this thread, for the last 4 just change the word corporations to landlords, stock traders, real estate investors, or CEOs.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
On the plus side, it's 14 pages of traffic for our hosts, which hopefully helps generate some revenue ( acceptable levels of course).
In reply to bobzilla :
As the main player on the Anti-Cyberpunk-Re-Enactment Team I'm still not sure where this idea that I'm ignoring facts and figures comes from. I've been leaning pretty heavily on facts and figures and barely dabbling in feelings.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
The whole bit about no one being worth more than $300,000 a year lies pretty solidly in the realm of "feelings".
Wow, I get busy at work and have a couple long days, now I need to get all caught up again. Coincidentally, I was meeting with a couple large companies and got to speak to a lot of their teams, including upper management. I've worked with both companies for around 15 years. They have grown tremendously, in sales and number of employees. Both moved into larger office buildings. I didn't ask what they were paid, but judging by their performance, they appear to be worth it. An interesting thing at one of the companies. The CEO didn't have a private office, just a desk out in the open office with everyone else. I didn't see any corporate dungeons, but they might just close those when they have guests.
I know quite a few people in non management roles that make over $250k. Many with no college degrees or any other formal skills training. They all work their asses off, and aggressively go after opportunity.
The US is not socialist. We sometimes vote in (and out) socialist leaning policies, either directly or by electing representatives that support those policies. But the overall economic system is capitalist, by a wide margin.
Duke said:In reply to GameboyRMH :
The whole bit about no one being worth more than $300,000 a year lies pretty solidly in the realm of "feelings".
and lets not forget the absolutely made up 91% figures thrown out, the all women make less than men, housing prices, income related to housing etc that I debunked time and again. But sure... BESIDES ignoring all of those things he's right in the "facts".
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
Wait. You mean the guy who had a curable form of cancer, refused treatment becuse he believed a fruit only diet will cure it. Then panicicked. Jumped the line of liver donors due to his wealth. Got one(ruined that slot for someone who could have actually lived) and then freaked out and demanded treatment when it was too late was a good leader?
im just joking.
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
Oh, Jobs was a dyed-black-in-the-wool California moonbat. No question about that.
He was also a hugely astute market visionary who built Apple from nothing once and brought it back from near death to be one of the largest, most-profitable corporations on the planet later.
Responses in bold.
Fueled by Caffeine said:In reply to Toyman! :
Look man. I don't disagree on several of your points. But we spend more money on healthcare and our social safety net programs per person than any other advanced economy. With worse results when measured by mortality rates, obesity rates and violence rates.
If we had a better government with a track record of doing things well, I could get behind this. Unfortunately, our elected officials and bureaucracy is noted for it's inability to manage most things. Look at how they have robbed almost $2T from SS over the years. In my eyes they have proved themselves unworthy of trust in all things. I certainly don't want them managing healthcare for me.
edit: forgot to answer your question on corporate greed. I posted my thoughts other places in this thread but I think it's a multifaceted problem. Is there greed out there. Sure.
my first premise is that we are in gilded age 2.0 and that the new robber barons are the musk's and Carnegie's, Vanderbilt's and Rockefeller of this time.
Couple thoughts1) corporate consolidation is driving competition out of the market place allowing companies to charge higher prices.
Agreed. This is what corporatism gets you and as long as politicians are for sale to the highest bidder this will not change.2) stock buy backs ahve done nothing for the consumer. They've juiced stock prices for those invested but before companies would invest in their operations before they did this.
I am indifferent to this. If a company wants to buy back its stock to improve the positions of the shareholders, that's a business decision. The consumers can always take their money elsewhere.3) anticompetive countries are dumping products into our marketplace and the worlds. Driving out more competition.
Mostly agree. While I generally don't agree with tarrifs, in some cases I think they are necessary. China subsidizing products and playing with the value of their money come to mind.
4) for all the tax breaks and subsidies companies get they aren't paying their share. Eisenhower taxed corporations a whole lot more. The market couldn't bear the massive price increase everyone said were coming to the consumer so companies took it out of exec pay. Didn't hurt our growth in the 50's.
This goes back to corporatism. While we have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, the loophole list is long. The loopholes need to be closed and the rates reduced. Tax law shouldn't be longer than 8-10 pages. You make X you pay Y%. Instead we have 7k pages and if you add in all the IRS guides, it's well over 75k pages. That's not tax law. That's the legislature taking care of themselves and their cronies.
Just a few off the top of my head. But I think resources are getting scarcer due a number of anti competitive actions that have been allowed by the loosening of laws and regulations on companies.
Resources on my end are scarce simply due to the amount of resources we are moving. Every contractor I know is running wide open and has a list of customers waiting. I have tried to throttle my business some with pricing but it hasn't worked. I'm back to looking for people.
So, I don't think you and I are that far apart and I'd be willing to meet you in the middle if we had trustworthy people running the show. Unfortunately, politics is one of the best get-rich-quick schemes out there as long as you tow the party line and both party lines are crap. Our politicians and political parties aren't in it for the country or the citizens. They are in it for the money and the power.
Edited for clarity.
In reply to Duke :
yes. I know. My sister worked for Jony ive for about 8 years on special projects.
In reply to Toyman! :
I agree. Number one problem with this country is big money in politics(corporations are people) and the ability for politicians to insider trade legally.
anyways. Enough politics.
I like pie. My favorite place to get pie on a nice summer day is https://www.stockholmpie.com
you can drive down the Mississippi River, visit some fun towns and then get some pie with some ice cream . It's a great day.
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
Yeah, we've probably beat this one to death.
If I'm ever in your area, I'll happily buy you a piece of pie.
In reply to Toyman! :
Same. Maybe be in Charleston this spring break to show my daughter where she was born. No plans yet just talk.
In reply to budget_bandit :
Those are great!
My mom used to get tastykake pies and put them in my lunch as a treat. Not everyday but boy what a nice treat now and then. I stulll remember opening up the paper and plastic container.
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
When I was a kid, one of my dad's good friends was a VP at Tastykake. We always had unmarked boxes of experimental Tastykakes to test sample.
DW and I still eat Chocolate Juniors and Kandykakes. I'm old enough to still call them Tandytakes. There are some in our pantry right now.
Tastykake pies are not as good as Drake's, but they're also not like 1800 calories a pack, either. But for just about everything else, Tastykakes are the superior prepackaged pastries on the market.
In reply to ShawnG :
Truth! This hit me...
I'm now a high earner, but still getting used to it. We rich types have to hustle harder and harder every step up and it often sucks just like back in the brokie days.
I know mostly NBA and NFL guys and the career talks are all pretty similar with us money and business guys. Most of us feel blessed, but stressed. It is amazing to not worry about the very real needs of human survival anymore, but I'm not being greedy just cause I earn bank. Just taking what I can get my hands on doesn't stop me from being ethical or anything.
Lots of different groups and interest colluding in unions and such to further their agendas. Corporate greed is more like a piece of the recipe floating in the stew, not even the meat of it really. Greed has a long and rich history that makes the modern concept of business look infantile.
Duke said:In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
Tastykake pies are not as good as Drake's, but they're also not like 1800 calories a pack, either. But for just about everything else, Tastykakes are the superior prepackaged pastries on the market.
Agreed 100%
In reply to Duke :
I've never had drakes. I will investigate.
Fueled by Caffeine said:was a good leader?
I didn't say he was a great human being. I know a couple people who worked with him and there are lots of stories about how difficult it was.
That said, the results he achieved are pretty incredible and it would be hard to argue that he was only worth $300K a year to Apple.
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
Agreed. Like i said my sister worked for Jony Ive.
+1 for Tastykake in general and especially Tastykake fruit pies. That is some good junk food.
Tastykake the business is a good 'ol American company with a long and storied history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tastykake
I don't believe that Corporations can be greedy. That is a human attribute.
What is fun to ponder is that in the USA, Corporations have the same legal rights as a human individual but do not have empathy feedback loop baked in to the cake that considers individuals or competitors. Then consider that Corporations, with infinite amounts of $$$, can do whatever they want against whomever they want; legal setbacks are just baked into the recipe as the cost of doing business. Corporations have only one WANT; to make money. That's interesting, but not greedy.
In reply to NOHOME :
What is fun to ponder is that in the USA, Corporations have the same legal rights as a human individual but do not have empathy feedback loop baked in to the cake that considers individuals or competitors. Then consider that Corporations, with infinite amounts of $$$, can do whatever they want against whomever they want; legal setbacks are just baked into the recipe as the cost of doing business. Corporations have only one WANT; to make money. That's interesting, but not greedy.
They don't have the same legal rights as individuals. They have most of the same legal rights as groups of people. This is not unique to the U.S., it's common throughout the world- at least in countries where people tend to have rights. It's not new either, it's got centuries (way, way before the U.S. existed) of precedent. There was a recent high profile Supreme Court ruling that I'm guessing you are alluding to, which people frequently claim "The court said corporations are people." There is no such language in the ruling. It protects the 1st amendment rights of "an association of individuals," be it a company, union, non profit, newspaper, etc..
And there are feedback loops. Shareholders, customers, and employees most definitely can provide feedback.
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