Is the Winter Tire message finally getting out to the masses?

Growing up in the snow belt and learning to drive in 1970's boats, I always felt that the ability to get somewhere in the snow was a show of skill and bravery. 14" Steel wheels running 75-series tires could bounce off curbs all day, who cares? You took the hub caps off until spring anyway. It was pretty standard to have snow tires for the rear wheels, even studded tires.

When AWD became available, I thought it was a great way to add safety and reliability. It eliminated the need for snow tires in my opinion so I stopped buying them. Even when I had a FWD car, I just relied on my winter driving skills and traction control to get me through. (mild winters have also helped)

When I got the FiST, I found some great snow tires cheap so I tried it out. They definitely help out, I can go anywhere the wife can go in her AWD. I am looking for a cheap set for the Rondo now.

That 40 degree figure is not a hard number, more like a guide line.

I have driven winter tires many miles at 50+temps. Nothing catastrophic happened.

Likewise. General Altimax Arctics, Firestone Winterforces and Hankook i-pikes have been run in summer with no problems.. Studless/ice-oriented tires (blizzaks top layer, michelin x-ice, and similar) do get pretty unhappy and melty/greasy on the highway in August though.

Coming from Jersey, I owned my last set of "snow tires" in 1986. Given that central VA has maybe two measurable snows per winter, there ain't no way in heck I'll ever own another set.

Now, for you snowbound Canucks (and by that I mean anyone living north of the Mason-Dixon Line) it's a different story, and I'm glad for your sake that "winter tires" are much improved.

iceracer wrote: That 40 degree figure is not a hard number, more like a guide line.

I've heard the 40° number before as the guideline for when summer tires need to go, but I've never actually heard a number from a tire manufacturer or expert as to what temperature is too hot for winter tires.

I'm sure the winter tires on our rallyx car have seen temps of 130 or more (racing on 100 degree day). They still seem fine to me.

I hadn't thought about it, really, but if my van was going to live through another set of tires, maybe winters all year would be the way to go. I put maybe 2k miles a year on it. Any tires are going to age out instead of wear.

In reply to Robbie:

I drove my XJ out of my 1/4 mile long, completely unplowed gravel driveway last winter in 30-31" of fairly heavy snow during our big blizzard. Got mildly stuck a couple times and dig myself a path backwards to build up momentum again, but on better tires I think it would have driven straight out. I have no doubt a suburban could do the same.

That said, 99% of the time I'd prefer my old E36 on Blizzaks in the sloppy stuff. Unbelievably stable and predictable.

dropstep wrote: I still find a decent all terrain does just fine.

Most good ATs carry the RMA winter tire mark and are legally snow tires.

In reply to Furious_E:

Similar story. Sisters' driveway is 1/3 of a mile gravel and uphill. I got there and pushed snow all the way up. 45 minutes later I drove back down and ferried up our mother when her 2013 Outback had gone exactly one car length off the road. All 4 wheels spinning and making zero forward progress.

I actually prefer to drive the CRX of DooM on Altimax Arctics over my Wrangler on 33" Duratracs. The Arctics remove all of the winter driving drama (and hoonage). Yeah, the Jeep is 4wd but it has a small wheelbase, has a higher CoG and has 12.5" wide tires. We got slammed with snow here. Like 13" worth. I literally could not drive the CRX due bottoming out from lack of ground clearance so I've been driving the Jeep the past few days.

I much prefer driving the '80s E36 M3box with no TCS, ABS or airbags on dedicated winter tires to the modern 4wd on ATs.

Probably the better part of 12 years ago, right out of highschool a buddy and me (who both worked at a tire shop) decided we were going to try out snow tires on FWD beaters. The rest was history.

Over the years I've encountered so many people who are so skeptical that tires can really make that much of a difference. They believe a truck, a Subaru, an SUV, "Something Big and American", salt in the trunk or any other thing is really what people need for good snow performance.

No folks, snow tires are the real deal, and it's amazing how well they work on your daily driver.

RedGT wrote: Likewise. General Altimax Arctics, Firestone Winterforces and Hankook i-pikes have been run in summer with no problems.. Studless/ice-oriented tires (blizzaks top layer, michelin x-ice, and similar) do get pretty unhappy and melty/greasy on the highway in August though.

X-ice tires are my personal experience, and yeah they tolerate a 60 day OK. But as soon as the last danger of temps below 30 are gone in early-ish spring, they come off and the summers go on.

Fun side note: Yesterday in the drugstore parking lot I saw a newish M5 wearing Altimax Arctics.

Anybody know how tire and rubber compounds are trickling down within the industry?

I've heard that many All-Terrain trucks tires are starting to adopt the softer compounds of Winter tires for better offroad performance. I'd be curious on the compound differences between say rally tires and snow tires.

BrokenYugo wrote:

dropstep wrote: I still find a decent all terrain does just fine.

Most good ATs carry the RMA winter tire mark and are legally snow tires.

I haven't had a chance to truly put them to the test yet, as we've only gotten a slushy couple inches back before Christmas and a minor dusting this morning, but early indications are extremely positive for the Treadwright Guard Dogs I put on the XJ. They're mud terrains, but have many more, smaller lugs than, say, a super swamper, so lots of edges like an a/t. I do believe they carry the winter rating.

I've had blizzaks before and they work well in snow but just average on dry surfaces. I seem to do okay with a decent all season tire. I kinda give a mental thumbs up when I see someone running snow tires.

DrBoost wrote: If so, we should now tell those people to not run them in August. I can't believe how many snow tires I see on cars through the summer.

It's perfectly cromulent. Put new tires on in October, drive new winter tires in winter, keep driving on them in the summer, put new tires on in October.

Winter tires tend to be soft enough in the sidewall that they get really good fuel economy in the summer. And they make the most amusing howling noises when you overdrive them, although this is something that the majority of people don't experience.

I'd rather see that, than people putting eight year old snow tires on that are harder than the all-seasons they are taking off, because "dey still got good treads". They are also junk. Tread depth means very little in comparison to tread compound.

iceracer wrote: That 40 degree figure is not a hard number, more like a guide line. I have driven winter tires many miles at 50+temps. Nothing catastrophic happened.

Shh, don't tell anyone, but the winter tires I have on now were driven at high speed cross-country when it was 90-95 degrees out!

I'm also taken to turning the traction control off specifically so I can get a good burnout going to get some heat into the tires so they will grip better. You know how all-seasons work fine on snow and ice for the first few blocks after you take the car out of a heated garage? Winter tires don't dislike being warmed up, too...

KyAllroad wrote:

Beer Baron wrote: Given how many people I saw completely fail to drive in *maybe* 1/2" of snow yesterday, No.

This. Seriously, we're having our annual first snow right now and the entire region has forgotten how to drive. It probably doesn't help matters that Kentucky is a "no inspections" state and there is some truly, shockingly bad cars on the road here.

So, last week, I went on a trek from Cleveland, O (isn't it neat how Ohio can stylistically-correct be abbreviated to just "O"?) to Decatur, AL. It was snowing here, then clear, then whiteout blizzard north of Columbus, then clear, then opaque rain in Lexington. The worst part of the trip weather-wise was in Cleveland where it was cold enough that there was ice under the snow and I couldn't go any faster than 75 without the traction control idiot light flashing constantly. After that the roads were fine.

I witnessed two accidents happen right in front of me in Lexington. One was an F-150 in a horrible to watch tailwhipping spinout right in front of a semi, in the oncoming traffic. The truck was moving around so much on its suspension it probably didn't have one or both stabilizer links in the front. The other accident was an S-10 that spun out on my side of the road and backed into the trees so hard you could only see the lit-up headlights.

There were probably three or four other accidents, but those were the two that I saw actually happen.

Then in Tennessee, I witnessed three happen right in front of me, because apparently in Tennessee it is state law that all cars must travel at no more than 5 feet following distance. (Memphis, I can understand, too many cars and not enough lanes of travel, but Middle-Of-Nowhere, TN?)

At least now I understand why people in these non-salt states don't drive old cars forever - they get destroyed by attrition from stupid driving, not from road salt. I literally saw more accidents happen south of the Ohio River in one day than I have seen in twenty years of driving in Ohio.

The Nokians on dad's Silverado saw probably 10k+ miles during this summer. They're horrible in rain by this point but they did decent with southern Kentucky's usual excuse for snow this morning. So I'd say snows in summer isn't nearly as bad as bald all seasons in the snow. I don't enjoy either though If I'm honest.

KyAllroad wrote: In reply to Robbie: Because 4x4 and weight. It really shows when driving in a foot or more of fresh powder, pushing the fluffy crap with your front bumper and still motoring along. Yes, in a slick road it's not any better than a snow tire clad minivan. But when you have to be truly unstoppable and blaze your own way, the heavy 4x4 will win that one.

That's the problem - "unstoppable".

I've never had a problem with "no go" in a couple decades of driving cars in winter. "No turn" and "no stop", however, have always been primary concerns. The only times "no go" were a problem were a direct result of "no turn" and/or "no stop" - it's hard to get a car out of a 4 foot ditch no matter what tires or drive type you have.

I have only had one TA in my life, and that was in a 5000lb vehicle, in the wintertime. I learned my lesson. Large vehicles suck. My next car was a 2800lb 4wd car. My car after that was a 2200lb rear-driver. Lighter is better than 4wd, always. And proper tires make ANYTHING better.

Last week at the bank, I saw a newer Camaro with Blizzaks on. I did a double take as I walked by to be sure

Iusedtobefast wrote: Last week at the bank, I saw a newer Camaro with Blizzaks on. I did a double take as I walked by to be sure

I have a customer with a Brembo-package Genesis Coupe (the turbo 2-liter version) who has us mount a set of Blizzaks every fall, and OE tires every spring. I think I mounted the Blizzaks the first time when the car had 3000 miles on it.

The funny thing is, the Blizzaks are getting worn and the summer tires ARE worn out. The owner wanted us to just put all-seasons on it instead of having us switch between high performance summer tires and winter tires, because he thought the winter tires did no good because he had to put 300lb of stuff in the trunk to keep the car mobile. No, we explained, f you're having that much difficulty with Blizzaks, you wouldn't even be able to drive it on all-seasons...

Anyway, I have a feeling next year we'll be looking into -2 or -3 options for the Genesis Coupe, instead of the 19" steamroller rubberbands on it now. I'm thinking if we can get a 215/60-16 or something on steel wheels to clear the Brembos, it should be spiffy-keen.

Although, I have steel wheels for the winter tires for my Volvo. 15" aluminum wheels clear the OE brakes. 15" steel wheels hit the calipers enough that while they technically bolted on, they needed a lot of drive time to self-clearance...