I've got a question

Depends. Was she wearing a hoodie and drinking an iced tea while snacking on Skittles? Cuz we know the answer then...

Is this really about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin?

Datsun1500 wrote: Wrong according to your beliefs, not everyones beliefs. Bible guys see her as "tempting others into sin" while others see her as having fun. Either way, legally, it's all on the guy.

Or, if one was to go with a more hedonistic set of beliefs, one could view it as "taunting men with something they can't have." I'd imagine it might be a bit harder to say it is wrong from that set of beliefs, or one might say it's less wrong, but it could still be branded wrong.

scardeal wrote: Is this really about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin?

Kinda what I thought when I read it as well. Nothing like twisting reality around a bit.

In reply to scardeal:

Correct, the real situation has nothing to do with my example. I actually thought of that because of an experience way back in college. I was in an RA training session and they showed a movie of a couple girls getting dressed up like Madonna and going out partying for the evening. As the night progressed, many young men came on to them, in part because of the way they were dressed, IMO. Near the end of the evening, one girl wanted to go home with one of the guys, and the other girl thought they should stay together. They ended up splitting up and the girl that went home with the guy ended up getting date raped. Afterwards we had a discussion about it, as the intent was that they were training us to identify and ultimately prevent date rape from happening. I suggested that while any guy that date rapes a girl is a scumbag, changing him might be a harder task than training the girl to not put herself in that position in the first place. I got kicked out of the training session by a livid female instructor. Note that I was not excusing him for raping her, but the intent was to avoid it from happening. My thinking is that to do that you have to take every precaution, and I thought it was unwise for her to dress like that, go out to a wild party, dance seductively with this guy, and go home with him late at night. His fault? Entirely. Does she carry some responsibility? Absolutely, if for nothing else than being stupid.
Anyway, that's where my example came from, but my current real world situation, while totally different, is actually similar in both a legal and moral way. Now that I've shown my hand, please don't argue with me. I'm hear to learn from you guys, not defend something I said 25 years ago.

rebelgtp wrote:

scardeal wrote: Is this really about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin?

Kinda what I thought when I read it as well. Nothing like twisting reality around a bit.

No it's not, but that did come to my mind as I was trying to think of an example. I just didn't want to go there.

In reply to Datsun1500:

That wasn't a rule. Not turning it into an argument was. Not that I can stop anyone from doing so if they wish. Maybe if you were a religious man, you'd know how to follow rules.

bravenrace wrote: But if you were judging this situation, would you put any of the responsibility on the woman for what happened, and if so, how much?

Not sure I follow, not that it makes a difference. What kind of responsibility are you asking? Legal or Moral?

If Legal, none.

If Moral, still none. Guy is equally morally responsible no matter if she's a business woman walking down the street, a hookrt on coffee break or the guys wife in the bedroom at home with a headach. No is no.

If intelligence quotient, then she's a dumbass, but still not liable.

As soon as you start down the slippery slope of degrees of responsibility you end up with the recent case of the woman (Was she Swedish I can't remember) who was charged and convicted of adultery after reporting a rape in the middle east. There is no moral ambiguity to me, stupidity yes, moral or legal blame no.

Datsun1500 wrote:

bravenrace wrote: In reply to Datsun1500: That wasn't a rule. Not turning it into an argument was. Not that I can stop anyone from doing so if they wish. Maybe if you were a religious man, you'd know how to follow rules.

Are you tempting me with your naughty bits?

I am completely out of naughty bits, sorry.

Society teaches women to be aware of when they're likely to get raped, as though a man can't help himself. That's sad for women and embarrassing for men.

Plenty of men go into strip clubs and don't rape. Plenty of men go to nude beaches and don't rape. The temptation/baiting argument is invalid. The woman is not culpable, no matter how naked or seductive she was. No means no.

Are you going to have to start selling your stuff soon? Because I might be interested in a couple of the cars and I'm also shopping for a lift...

Hahha

"Here, have this whistle. I'm gonna go hide in the bushes."

I know girls who have cried rape, but, IMHO put themselves in the position. One was even giving the guy oral sex and decided she didn't want to go further, but he "made her" do it. Told everyone he raped her, but never pressed charges. His story was completely different as to how it escalated, he agreed she said no first, but later changed her mind and "hopped on for a ride". Whatever, that was eons ago just out of high school and it was never a big deal to her. Like if you asked her if she slept with him she would say, "well, yeah, but he kinda raped me".

We were having a house party, a girl no one knew was there, drunk as Cooter Brown. We told her she could go stay in the extra bedroom, the door locked if she wished to lock it. She said, "Y'all just want me to go in there and go to sleep so you can rape me." My roommate and I looked at each other, said, "F this" and called the cops to take her away. Not gonna get near that situation with a 10' pole.

Yes, the guy is responsible for controlling himself, but the girl is equally responsible for controlling herself. Yes, I would give my daughters, both of them, the same advice. Guys are stronger than you and can physically make you do things you don't want to. Do not put yourself in a position where that may happen.

Just my $0.02

GameboyRMH wrote: Makes no difference IMO. It's 100% on the guy to control himself.

in this day-n-age .... yep

as they teach/taught us in the sexual harassment classes .... no means no

regardless of the circumstances

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that Bravenrace's old lady put mustard on the sandwich even though he asked her not to. "But you said you liked mustard. You were all waving the bottle in front of my face in a seductive manner?"

"THAT WAS BEFORE! GET YOUR GODDAMNED MUSTARD OUTTA MY TURKEY AND SWISS SANDWICH! NOW!"

"No way baby. This mustard on your sandwich is totally happening. The cap is off. The bottle's been squeezed."

Seriously. Did somebody get berkeleying raped? If so, you should probably be talking to the cops and not a bunch of forum dorks. Or an attorney. Or enlighten us as to how rape is like, the best analogy you could come up with for something that isn't berkeleying RAPE.

Here's a good general rule of thumb though: If someone says "Get your berkeleying dick out of me" and you don't, that's a pretty berkeleying cut & dry case of rape right there. Get it?

I am thinking improper thoughts about mustard. Like, right now.

EastCoastMojo wrote: I am thinking improper thoughts about mustard. Like, right now.

PM me.

I'm busy getting all the mustard out.

Whoo! Some just got in my nose.

In reply to poopshovel:

Okay, you're taking this ANALOGY much too literally, dude.

bravenrace wrote: In reply to poopshovel: Okay, you're taking this ANALOGY much too literally, dude.

Right. So. Again. Enlighten me as to what berkeleying RAPE is a great analogy for. IRS trouble?

In reply to poopshovel:

Hey, you're getting a little nosey now.

Datsun1500 wrote: The problem is you are bringing morals into a legal situation, and that will only drive you crazy.

The original question did not use the words "legal" or "moral".

It used the words responsibility and asked us to judge it and offer our opinions.

Moral, religious, or legal opinions are equally welcome, and equally legit in accordance with the original question, with the understanding that this IS the internet, and therefore ALL opinions are equally illegitimate.

Unless we are choosing to be judgmental, but THAT will drive you crazy.

EastCoastMojo wrote: I'm busy getting all the mustard out. Whoo! Some just got in my nose.

you. are. weird.

Yeah, who isn't?