I've been planting seeds for being able to do my job remotely for a while. Now that we've been working from home for over a month, my boss is starting to see the light, and today he told me he didn't see why that couldn't happen (there are still reasons it couldn't, but anyway). I want to move from Illinois to Colorado to be closer to my family. Where they live in Colorado, a 4WD/AWD is very advantageous. So I was wondering, what is the reliable choice here? I would expect that once I'm there, it won't get driven much more than a few times a week and probably less. I have basically no experience with 4WD/AWD anything.
I always recommend a truck when shopping for a daily. Even if it's a small truck having the ability to haul stuff when needed is invaluable too me
There is a big 4wd Toyota/Subaru tax in Colorado. Buy it before you go there. As an long time Subaru owner (6 of them), I switched over to Toyota 4wd a while ago, and won't look back. Toyota 4wd good enough for Taliban and UN, it is good enough for me.
Good luck. Your budget will determine your options.
Yes, definitely would be buying before I go. I would most likely need to tow a trailer out there. I am leaning towards a truck. I expect the earliest this could happen is closer to fall, so I have a lot of time to get my ducks in a row.
Can't go wrong with a Toyota truck.
I have both a 2004 Subaru Forester XT and a 2003 Toyota 4Runner.
Both are AWD, but the methods are a bit different. Manufacturers also make changes to how the drivetrain works- using the ABS to engage wheels vs. mechanical things like locking differentials.
It really depends on what you're going to be looking to do with the vehicle. The Mazda CX-5 appeals to me more than a modern Forester, for example, but if I needed an actual SUV, I'd still go with a 4Runner.
Sure, I bought my Montero Limited as a "wrecked" salvage auction car but the reason that such little (nearly no) damage totaled the car was because they are generally really cheap. However, in an equation of capability per dollar I think they are hard to beat.
Shopping in the flat lands you should be able to find a great one for well under $5k
Real samples, found real quick:
2006 w/ 115k asking $6k
2002 w/ 103k asking $5k
2001 w/130k asking $4k
Previous Montero chatter
mr2s2000elise said:
Can't go wrong with a Toyota truck.
Unless it's rusted to E36 M3 because of midwestern winters & road salt.
mr2s2000elise said:
Can't go wrong with a Toyota truck.
Except for terminal frame rust. Do your due diligence.
well hell Pete Gossett beat me to it.
I love Subaru's, but depending on altitude I'd be warey of one in Colorado if you're talking NA. We were close to getting my wife a CrossTrek, but it was just too anemic even in Michigan at a whopping 700 feet above sea level.
I have yet to find any rational reason to buy a pickup truck unless you own a race car, horse, boat etc. and tow at least once a week. Almost any type of vehicle is a better bet 99% of the time.
I drive a 1st gen Tacoma in the winter. New England. I absolutely love the thing except 4cyl/5spd I cannot tow anything. Toyota put a new frame in it 3 or 4 years ago. What company does that? Better MPG than my old 2.5RS Suby.
In reply to slowride :
So I have a VW Golf Sportwagen with 4motion (AKA AWD) That car with snow tires on it is a beast in the snow. I live in the front range and have a cabin near leadville that I go to a lot and have never had an issue. It's actually a lot more confidence inspiring than both of the BOF 4X4 I have. (Xterra and Wrangler) Only thing that ever gives it issues is drifts over 7 inches.
Oh and with the Turbo, It's good with the altitude.
Thanks guys, lots to ponder here! Altitude may indeed be an issue, it's around 6000 feet where I would be going.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:
I have yet to find any rational reason to buy a pickup truck unless you own a race car, horse, boat etc. and tow at least once a week. Almost any type of vehicle is a better bet 99% of the time.
That has been my issue. I have a single cab Ranger and it is useful like a couple times a month but the lack of room in the cab is way more annoying. It sucks to drive like most trucks and gets E36 M3 gas mileage. I am so ready to get a new daily.
You heading to the Springs?
My house is at 7K altitude and really no issues. Not as peppy as when I go back to Omaha to see the fam. Just expect that your 9 sec 0-60 Crosstek will be now an 11 second 0-60 Crosstek. My Mom's NA legacy does just fine here.
Sort of, it's near Glenwood Springs (I assume you meant Colorado Springs?)
In reply to slowride :
Generally, 4WD is more off road oriented. The main difference is the lack of a center diff and the availability of low range. The low range transfer case provides a lot more torque and better control at low speeds. But the lack of a center diff means that on road use is only in the worst conditions at low speeds. Most 4WD systems operate similarly, but available locking diffs can make a big difference in tough situations.
AWD is generally seen as more road oriented. It’s for maximizing traction throughout a variety of vehicle speeds. It’s generally better on the road and in light off road conditions. But there is a wide variety of AWD systems out there that are so different, it’s unfair to lump them all in the same category. For example, there really isn’t such a thing as “Subaru AWD.” Their “Symmetrical AWD” was invented by their marketing department. They use a number of very different AWD systems. The mid 2000’s Legacy’s for example, used at least 5 different systems depending of the model, in the same year! Older and more performance oriented AWD systems tend to be more like 4WD with a center diff. More robust, and can take a bit more abuse. Many newer systems are on demand style that can only send a smaller percentage of the torque to the rear, for a shorter amount of time. Think more for getting un-stack rather than rally. Many new systems also rely heavily on brake system based limited slips vs. mechanical limited slips. Again, they work well for the brief periods that most drivers would need them, but are not really meant for Motorsport or more hardcore off road.
In the end, pick which type of vehicle you need first, then the 4WD/AWD system that is most suitable for your uses.
Boost_Crazy said:
4x4 vs AWD stuff
Pet peeve: The difference between AWD and 4WD is marketing. If you've got four wheels and all of them are driven, it's all wheel drive. My 4Runner is AWD, has a locking center differential and a low range.
The Subaru is AWD, doesn't have a low range (though they were available in some markets) and has a viscous center differential. Some, like the STi, have differentials you can control the bias on for the driven wheels.
Part time
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
Weird I tryed to live without a truck for 6 months and started to go nuts. A daily that gets 8mpg doesn't work for everyone but I have trouble finding a better do it all vehicle in the Midwest. I'm not about too haul dirty car parts, scrap, old bikes or gravel in a vehicles interior
In reply to Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) :
Pet peeve: The difference between AWD and 4WD is marketing. If you've got four wheels and all of them are driven, it's all wheel drive. My 4Runner is AWD, has a locking center differential and a low range.
The Subaru is AWD, doesn't have a low range (though they were available in some markets) and has a viscous center differential. Some, like the STi, have differentials you can control the bias on for the driven wheels.
Part time
AWD is a marketing term, which generally is very useful to differentiate between part time four wheel drive and full time four wheel drive. AWD = full time four wheel drive. Four wheel drive = part time four wheel drive. Four wheel drive came first, but calling it part time would have been redundant since everyone knew you couldn’t drive down the highway in four wheel drive. When AWD came along, they had to differentiate it from four wheel drive, because you could drive with it down the highway. Rather that try to redefine an old term- which you are correct that it is inaccurate- they came up with a new one, All Wheel Drive.
That said, neither are technically accurate today. You can buy a four wheel drive that switches automatically from 2 to 4 wheel drive in “auto” mode. And many AWD cars are operating as FWD most of the time. Basically a FWD that is part time AWD.
But to keep it simple- 4WD = no center diff. AWD = center diff.
Also if you want to get very technical, very few cars are 4WD or AWD, unless they have locking or limited slip diffs front and rear. They are more accurately “variable wheel drive.”
Half of my post disappeared, weird.
The difference between “awd” and “4wd” IS that awd has a center differential, 4wd does not.
Thanks for all this info guys! I don't think I necessarily need a "classic" 4WD (ie, with 4 lo) since the need is primarily for traction in winter conditions (snow tires are considered required also) and on low-intensity nonpaved roads. There is some opportunity for driving on Jeep-style roads but I always figured that if I got interested in that, I'd have a dedicated vehicle, rather than trying to use the same vehicle for everything. Towing is a consideration also.
I'd never heard of AWD before I moved here in 94. Back in the UK if it had the ability to send drive to all four wheels it was a 4x4, no matter locking, not locking, diffs, engagement etc. Hence Land Rover's legendary 'The best 4x4 by far' slogan. Nuff said, the rest is marketing BS.
