Learn me: CNC engravers

So somehow metal casting has evolved into wood working as well, and a full blown mill is beyond cost prohibitive.

This lead to desktop cnc machines, which are still super pricey, but worked its way down to engravers.

They cannot do metal, but seemingly can do wood and plastics, which fulfill my needs.

The issue is there seem to be 3 different main types. Laser, Dremel, and router. A lot of the "laser" ones appear to have a standard spindle for using Dremel bits too, start at under $150, but pictures of finished products are harder to come by. They do look like they could carve a pattern with just the laser, but probably better for marking more than carving. Descriptions are written in choppy English though, so it's hard to pick out what models are laser only and which have a spindle/collet for bits.

A standard spindle or rotary tool base would be preferred, but are harder to find. Rotary tool seems to be custom built every time, which considering my lack of arduino knowledge could be an issue, but there are some full kits out there.

Router bad are bigger, pretty much perfect, but over $500, making them cost prohibitive.

All that said, does anyone have experience with the laser engraver or the style that use a rotary tool?

My main use will be machining plywood or mdf into patterns to cast with, so it seems like I could get away with all 3 types, I just don't know which would be best.

Most of the ones I've seen use GRBL(?) For software. Open source, seems to make gcodes so I should be able to design in auto cad and convert to gcode, I think. Any experience with the software?

I'm sorry if this post is harder to understand, I'm on my phone, and have 3 different tabs open comparing setups.

A Dremel is basically a small router, so I think we can combine those.

I have a large bed laser engraver. The laser is more like a very accurate wood burner. It doesn't really cut wood- it burns it. If it is thin enough, it will burn through.

But I wouldn't call that "machining". It may be hard to get appropriate undercuts for casting release.

A router version will more likely meet your needs. A laser engraver could likely be modified to hold a router.

BTW, if they have enough power, a laser engraver can engrave metal. Usually needs a bluing agent or similar so the laser can "see" the surface without reflection.

Since you are reading sites that are slightly garbled, it is likely you are looking at machines made in China. Expect seriously garbled code and instructions written in Cantonese, with no tech support.

You mentioned plastics as one of the materials you would use. With a laser you have to be careful what types of plastics you put in the machine. Some will off gas nasty toxic stuff.

A cnc router would alleviate this problem. And it would allow you to cut 3D contours. Lasers to the best of my knowledge only do 2D work.

I've used a ProBotix V90 cnc router, and it is a very solid machine.

Or, you could diy it. I have a couple nice servo motors you can have.

This looks pretty cool: http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-3d-printer-kits/pp_598320.html

I have nothing to add beyond that

In reply to DaveEstey:

Yea that's pretty similar top a lot of them I've been looking at. In the same breath as "carves bamboo, wood, leather, plastic" it says "can't cut balsa wood 3-5mm" so it doesn't really make sense to me.

Once the little one takes a nap, I'll try to get some pictures and descriptions up of different options. My favorite direct from China site doesn't allow hotlinks, and is login only, so I have to take and edit a few screen shots.

It's strange, at least on my Google, when I search for DIY stuff, I'm finding a lot of stuff from 10 years ago. 10 years might as well be 100 based on technology and pricing changes.

I think the easiest option is going to be learning how to build and program an arduino stepper controller, and with my history with circuit board work.... It'll be cheaper to buy something else once.

Whatever the outcome, there well be a build thread to have some semblance of a modern experience show up on Google.

I half expected someone here to have one, between the machinists and hobbyists here, but a lot of you guys have real machines so "toys" like these could slip through the cracks pretty easily.

a friend has one of these: Zen CNC

He's been pretty happy with it, and upgraded it over time to add 3d print capability as well, then multi-filament (I think).

With images like this, it looks like the laser could work. The problem is this is basically a stock image looking across Ebay, amazon, and geek.wish.com. I haven't seen anything anywhere saying how deep that it can "carve", the stamp would be a few mm, I'm looking (hoping) that I could go through the whole work surface (claims to fit 1.5" high material, taller than I should need for most things), even if that means setting it to make a pattern and going to bed while it runs all night, which is probably a terrible idea with a laser.

All 3 sites have garbled english descriptions, and reviews in several languages though.

I've been considering the 7x7 Zen CNC. It's pricier than I'd like, but it would check all the boxes. Looking around, it doubles in price tacking on the stepper motors, drivers, and power supply .

This one Seems to hold all the functionality of the Zen, with a slightly smaller working area, but it includes all the extras I'd have to buy already. Stepper drivers, controller, crappy version of Mach3.

For as many "kits" that are out there, I'm surprised there aren't many major brands, or at least a base they're based off of like with cheap 3D printers that are all clones of 2 machines.

Maybe I'm biting off more than I can chew wanting to get into a system like this. I've just seen reputable casters make amazing patterns with some online. Nice, $1000+ engravers and backgrounds in CNC seem to help a lot with their use though.

It is also looking like I'll have some trouble communicating with them. The cheaper systems all seem to want 32bit WinXP or Linux. While I do have an old laptop I could put linux on, I haven't seen much about using a virtual machine on a more modern system, which I think would be easier to design and print from the same computer.

I do like that buying extruder heads and changing software could turn the right one into a 3d Printer as well. I've been wanting one of those for a very long time.

I've been on a bit of a tool buying binge the past month or so, but unlike the majority of tools I've bought, I have no experience or idea in this area of working at all. Never used a CNC, don't know the difference between 3 and 4 axis systems, haven't designed in CAD in years, I'm very far out of my comfort zone to say the least. And while a $200 mistake wouldn't be terribly hard to swallow, I'd rather not make it if I can help it.

With the forum being down, I was able to do more research and digging, and have finally decided on the right combination of price,and bells n whistles.

Right here

30x20x8 cm work area should cover all of my needs, 10k rpm spindle and 1/8" collet means with the right bits mdf is great. And that there should be no shortage of tooling available.

The tricky part is going to be piecing together an xp box, and then trial and error with the software. Mach 3 seems to be the standard, although there are other options out there, plus needing to figure out CAM and everything. The learning curve looks a bit steep, but I don't have a shortage of time.

That looks like a pretty well built machine. I hadn't seen one before.

I can second the idea of wonky, counterintuitive software on the (insert country here) built machines. I have used three different machines built in China, and the software is- well, odd. But once you figure out what it wants, it works pretty well.

I have some experience with Mach 3 as well. It can do a ton of stuff, I can't even pretend to know what 10% of that even is. But I can load a file in it and make it do something. That was after someone who knows it well spent a couple hours with me to teach me.

You know too, if you want to "try it before you buy it" you could do a googles search for a local to you maker space. I'd be willing to bet if there is one, they have an open build night. And if they do I'm sure they would be more than happy to walk you through a project if you showed up with a piece or two of wood and a jpg or similar file on a flash drive.