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preach
preach GRM+ Memberand Reader
7/15/20 1:55 p.m.

I am in a similar situation and will share my plan.

Mrs. preach is 12 years younger than me, I will be 50 this August. Currently we live in NH but both of us hate the winter. She crunches data for a healthcare provider and can (has been due to the covid) work from home. I plan on retirement at 62.

Our current plan is to go from zero tax NH to zero tax TN, specifically the Chattanooga area as I have a bunch of family there. More specifically the roads down there, oh man the roads down there.

No winter to speak of, I can have AC in the summer when it is muggy, housing is cheap, Mrs preach can work in town or remotely, and those roads...

All I want to do in retirement is have a small house, a big shop, a garden, and a Boxer puppy I am going to name berkeleyer. I want to grow my own food, build cars, drive said cars, and take berkeleyer with me wherever I go.

I only look at houses with 5+ acres and there seems to be a bunch down there well under $250k. Ideally I would like to buy an old airport with a runway and a hangar, then build a house. A man can dream right?!?

Duke
Duke MegaDork
7/15/20 2:16 p.m.

In reply to preach :

Thanks for the info from someone who is living it right now... some followup questions and comments:

1)  Just how bad are we talking about winters?  I know bad, but are they brutal?  We'll be retired so we won't have to go out every day.  If it totally sucks we will just stay home.  As long as we have high speed internet access we'll be good.

2)  We hate humidity / heat.  Really hate it.  What sucks about Delaware is that we rarely get much of spring or fall.  Winter isn't particularly mild here but around April we get maybe a month where it's nice off and on - and then it goes straight to muggy and we're in summer already.  Same with fall: heat lingers through September, we get maybe 3-4 nice weeks in October, and then it's cold and crappy.

To me there is no difference between 40 / raining and 20 / snowing.  I'm not going out in that crap either way.  So if colder winters mean cooler / drier summers and the chance for real spring and fall seasons, I'm all in.

3)  How bad are roads in VT / NH?  We're definitely not SUV people.  Can you drive a real car up there without beating it to death?

 

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
7/15/20 3:36 p.m.

In reply to Duke :

I used to have employees in vt.  You can drive regular cars there if you live in town or on the way in and out of town. However a food deal has trucks and or subarus.   Snow tires are encouraged.

After a bit of time up there you will realize how mild the winters in Delaware are.   I'm from bucks county pa and now live in Minnesota.  The philly area winters are easy.  Sure the summers are worse.  But my employees in vergennes vt would have temperatures closeish to minnesota in the winter.  Maybe not for as long, but she will get  cold like -10 for two weeks to a month a year.   Moving to nh close to the coast will temper that a bit. 

preach
preach GRM+ Memberand Reader
7/15/20 9:01 p.m.

In reply to Duke :

1. It gets cold and a Nor'easter is basically a hurricane in the winter. There are times that my old house cannot heat above 61*, this is mostly due to being 130 years old and still has the original windows (with alum storm windows). It can rain and freeze so you slide through stoplights or into the car in front of you. Most of the time it is just cold. You can dress for it but it still sucks. You can also stay in for a storm and have 3' of snow to deal with when you come out again. Sometimes it does the same thing three days later. Then there is the heavy snow one day and the 60* weather the next. I usually put my Cayman up for the winter no later than 11/15 and that is watching the weather daily. It comes out of storage in April, I wait for a few rain storms to wash the tons of salt off of the roads first.

2. Right now I am happy to be in San Diego for a few months. It gets hot and humid in New England in the summer. Sometimes winter ends and the heat comes with no spring. Fall though is the E36 M3, so berkeleying awesome.

3. My wife drives a lowered MK1 Audi TT. I made her get snow tires this past year so she could run real summers in the summer. Roads are generally good, but you get frost heaves that will play havoc on your car. I have actually ripped a "spat" (That's what I call them by default but it is a splitter for the front of the rear tires) off of the cayman in April because a frost heave was big enough to crack the asphalt and tag the rubber spat. Most people drive cars there. Both states are beautiful, definitely lean to the left politically in VT more than NH.

Anything else let me know.

Gary
Gary UltraDork
7/15/20 9:17 p.m.

I've had some pretty good plans for the past fifty years ... since I was twenty (and a pauper). I'm retired now and glad I did what I did financially. I'm in very good shape. Even better than my original plan. I've posted here many, many times my financial thoughts and ideas. I'm not going to say it again. Check them out.

Could I go to European Collectables in OC, CA https://www.europeancollectibles.com/ and buy something I'd love? Sure. But unfortunately my fifty-year fiscal discipline is still in effect. That's a psychological restraint, not a fiscal restraint. But I'm working on that ... with Annie's help. She's an enabler.

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
7/15/20 10:12 p.m.

I'm not sure why a state income tax is such a concern when you're retired and your income (withdrawals from retirement accounts - or just living off savings) will be considerably lower than your working income.  Real estate taxes, however, those won't change regardless of your income.

Having spent a fair amount of the last 4 years in NH, I like visiting, but there is no berking way in hell I'd move there from SE PA. For one - holy hell, home prices are insane. My little 600 square foot, 2 BR house on a 40x100 lot would be around $300K near Portsmouth.  It's gets a little better as you go north and inland, but not by a lot.  Close to the Mass border and then you're competing against Boston commuters. 

Then there's the people.  Maybe it's my strange Georgia/Philly accent, but compared to where I live in the Philly suburbs, the people in the Portsmouth area are simply not all that friendly. 

OHSCrifle
OHSCrifle GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/16/20 6:21 a.m.

In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :

Having lived many places I feel what you are saying. I like to compare the grocery store experience.
 

In the SE, lots of pleasantries and conversation in the checkout line are common. In New England, if you say "good morning - how are ya"? to the clerk you might get a blank stare. 
 

I'm okay with either one to be honest. Hard to complain about people who leave me alone. 

preach
preach GRM+ Memberand Reader
7/16/20 9:40 a.m.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

the people in the Portsmouth area are simply not all that friendly. 

This is very noticable to folk not from New England. It's not just Portsmouth. I attribute it to the harsh winters making for rugged people physically and socially. I am originally from C PA and W PA.

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
7/16/20 10:21 a.m.

Wife and I have been having this conversations a lot more lately since they decided to start building warehouses all around us. We would have been happy with our place as our retirement. Low taxes, low CoL and all the amenities we could ask for. Sadly that was shattered earlier this year (along with pretty much everything else!). 

My vote is Show Low/Globe area of Arizona. Still stuff there, can get 10-20 acres reasonably. Trees. Winters are mild. Summers are dry. I'm also voting for NOW.... but we have a few more years. Her retirement is also dependant on remaining an Indiana resident I believe so that might make things more difficult. 

mtn (Forum Supporter)
mtn (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
7/16/20 10:35 a.m.

I'll need to get my wife to buy in, and we're only 30, so still very far off... But my dream, and note that this is a stretch - the reality would end up being 2/3, if we're lucky, is this: 

  1. Summer place in Northern Wisconsin/Minnesota/Upper Peninsula. On the water wherever it is, somewhat rural. Would prefer a bunch of land with it, but minimum would be 1 car attached garage and detached building with room for 3 boats and 2 cars. 
  2. "Home base" in Chicagoland, because family is here. This would probably be an apartment.
  3. Winter place in southern state. Southern for us starts with Kentucky, so we have a lot of options here. Farthest west that we would consider is Austin TX. 

 

Obviously not well thought out, need to figure out what the tax/COL implications are for each, but that is the general outline - and again, we're only 30, so this is many years away. Who knows what happens in the time between now and when we're ready to retire?

mtn (Forum Supporter)
mtn (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
7/16/20 10:38 a.m.
bobzilla said:

My vote is Show Low/Globe area of Arizona. Still stuff there, can get 10-20 acres reasonably. Trees. Winters are mild. Summers are dry. I'm also voting for NOW.... but we have a few more years. Her retirement is also dependant on remaining an Indiana resident I believe so that might make things more difficult. 

WHAT??? She's a teacher, right? This doesn't sound right... Unless you're saying that her retirement is dependent on her staying in Indiana until she retires. 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
7/16/20 11:40 a.m.
mtn (Forum Supporter) said:
bobzilla said:

My vote is Show Low/Globe area of Arizona. Still stuff there, can get 10-20 acres reasonably. Trees. Winters are mild. Summers are dry. I'm also voting for NOW.... but we have a few more years. Her retirement is also dependant on remaining an Indiana resident I believe so that might make things more difficult. 

WHAT??? She's a teacher, right? This doesn't sound right... Unless you're saying that her retirement is dependent on her staying in Indiana until she retires. 

Yeah, getting her info second hand from someone that doesn't understand and then her mothers experience with NJ teacher retirements (WR'RE NOT *** **** NEW JERSEY!) is frustrating. I've tried sorting through her rats nest of retirement accounts and have deferred to our financial planner. I've never asked him only listened to her. 

I DO know where we sit in the other accounts. 

EDIT: finally looked it up. She does not have to be an Indiana resident past retirement age. 

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
7/16/20 12:10 p.m.

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-worst-states-to-retire/18592/

looks like you are splitting hairs between NH and DE.. 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
7/16/20 12:17 p.m.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

Good to see Indiana is kicking ass. Too bad I hate our weather. lol

 

mtn (Forum Supporter)
mtn (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
7/16/20 12:27 p.m.
bobzilla said:

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

Good to see Indiana is kicking ass. Too bad I hate our weather. lol

 

And your fishing is only barely better than Illinois. 

Duke
Duke MegaDork
7/16/20 1:19 p.m.
Fueled by Caffeine said:

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-worst-states-to-retire/18592/

looks like you are splitting hairs between NH and DE.. 

Looking at that site, "affordability" is worse in New Hampshire.  Digging into that a little further it seems that the general tax rate in DE is about 6% vs 10% for NH.

The "quality of life" and "health" rankings are both much better for NH than DE, leading to NF being ranked #3 overall versus DE at #6.

From what I'm seeing on the WX, yearly average temperatures are about 5-10 dF cooler in NH, and so are dew points.  That part makes me happy.

 

KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
7/16/20 2:05 p.m.

My uncle is retired now and snowbirds.  Winters in the Pensacola Florida area and then summers in Vermont.  My stepmother does similar Pensacola to Cape Cod.  

It's hard to find a single location where the weather is nice year round (except San Diego apparently).  So why tether yourself to just one spot?

The older I get the less tolerant I am of the cold, I can see going to the gulf coast year round.

 

Edit, the record snowbirds might be my late grandparents.  Winter just south of Tampa and summer home in the Northern end of Nova Scotia.

preach
preach GRM+ Memberand Reader
7/16/20 3:18 p.m.

I think we will end up with a camp in Mid-Maine. We will either sell it or spend summers up in Maine vice Tennessee.

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
7/16/20 3:53 p.m.
mtn (Forum Supporter) said:
bobzilla said:

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

Good to see Indiana is kicking ass. Too bad I hate our weather. lol

 

And your fishing is only barely better than Illinois. 

We don't talk about the states on each side. They don't exist. At least, if we don't acknowledge them maybe they won't annoy us.

 

Duke
Duke MegaDork
7/16/20 4:21 p.m.
KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter) said:

It's hard to find a single location where the weather is nice year round (except San Diego apparently).  So why tether yourself to just one spot?

1)  Economics.

2)  We have 4 cats and will likely have pets for a long time to come.  I'd rather not relocate them multiple times a year.

3)  We want to have access to our stuff without duplication.

4)  Moving is a serious PITA and I can't imagine doing it twice a year every year.

 

yupididit
yupididit UberDork
7/16/20 4:27 p.m.

I need to find a place that doesn't tax measly military pay, low or no property tax, low or no income tax, doesn't have cold ass winters lol. 

OHSCrifle
OHSCrifle GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/17/20 5:52 a.m.

I have a friend in VT. I like cold weather. When the friend told me his six foot deep sewer line froze solid a few years ago.. I was kinda surprised it gets THAT cold. 

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