Man dies trapped in Corvette

captdownshift wrote: I would like to be the attorney representing his estate in the suit to be filed against GM. Why? Because the highly touted Blue On Star button and corresponding emergency button don't have a back up battery system, of say 3500MaH, for emergency communications.

Usually most owners don't renew the service after its complimentary period......7-8 years old almost certainly wouldn't have it anymore anyways.

Datsun1500 wrote: Corvettes have had that door since 2005. There have been @235,647 Corvettes sold in that time. How many people have died? Sorry, the door design is a non issue.

I'm sure you know what you're talking about … but this is the first time I've ever hear of the placing of the only mechanical door handle (in any car) on the floor beside the seat … but then I've never owned a Corvette … though I have ridden in a few (didn't get the chance to read the OM though

In reply to Basil Exposition:

I have found them in the trunk sometimes but won't say I always find them.

You never found them?

SVreX wrote: How about we lock the guy in his car with a combination lock release? I guess he should have read the berkeleying manual. Or better yet, an iPhone app that will let him out. I guess he should have read the berkeleying manual. Where is the law that says everyone is required to read in order to drive? I guess he should have read the berkeleying manual. Can anybody say age discrimination? I guess he should have read the berkeleying manual. What if he loans his car? I guess his friend should have read the berkeleying manual. What if he has a passenger, and he faints? I guess his passenger should have read the berkeleying manual. What if he is underwater? I guess he should have read the berkeleying manual. What if he is upside down? I guess he should have read the berkeleying manual. What if he's got no left arm? I guess he should have read the berkeleying manual. What if he is able bodied, but gets sick, disoriented, or hurt? I guess he should have read the berkeleying manual. What if he doesn't speak English? I guess he should have read the berkeleying manual. OPENING A berkeleyING DOOR TO GET OUT SHOULD NOT REQUIRE A berkeleyING MANUAL. THIS THREAD IS FULL OF SO MUCH STUPID IT'S PATHETIC. Did anybody notice that the Emergency Responders couldn't figure it out either, even though they are trained to get people out of emergencies? I guess they should have read the berkeleying manual.

you sir should get the award for ending this thread … sadly I'm sure it will go forward

spitfirebill wrote:

tuna55 wrote: Does anyone here disagree with this statement? "If I am inside a car, and desire to leave said car, pulling the door handle should open the door regardless of the current status of the door lock."

Tuna for President!

Not so fast! Somebody lost a kid that way and so simple doors you open... sorry charlie. No can have. It's for the children. Who really shouldn't be in the driver's seat.

FWIW, This thread would be a lot funnier if the top was down.

tuna55 wrote: Does anyone here disagree with this statement? "If I am inside a car, and desire to leave said car, pulling the door handle should open the door regardless of the current status of the door lock."

I agree with you … but like I pointed out earlier my Mom's Fit won't let you do that … my Sonic will (though you have to pull the handle twice [ oh the horrors ] LOL )

I wonder how many miles are on the car and what color it is.

In reply to wbjones:

Must be different standards south of the border.

I haven't ever been in a restaurant up here where your dog is allowed inside with you, it's against bylaws. Patio is ok but rover can't come sit at the table inside with you.

It's not common down here, but it is becoming more so. Many "service " dogs nowadays are for PTSD sufferers. Saw something a while back where one was denied access.

Some of you are just not thinking straight. You are interpreting the problem backwards.

My SIL is one of the smartest people I know- a software developer. But that's not what makes him smart. What makes him smart is that he has an in depth understanding that software developers make truly terrible software users.

You are thinking like software developers.

You are envisioning a nicely designed electronic exit latch. You are picturing it well executed, and documented. You are even considering the possible problems and designing for them. You e considered a backup system, and even imagined language barriers, so you've included little icons that don't require language, and put the backup latch where people can see it if they look a little farther, or bend a bit.

But you are running the problem backwards.

Now, imagine yourself in the actual situation. Imagine being old, a little slow, not very agile. Perhaps not quite as quick thinking as you used to be.

Imagine reaching for THE door latch (why would a door have 2?), and it doesn't work. E36 M3. Door latch is busted. Well, that's ok, I'll try the window. Oh dear, that's broken too. Now what? Maybe I can catch the attention of somebody to open the outside latch. Oh dear, it's so hot. I hope Fifi is OK. How did I get in this mess? Why can't that guy hear me yelling? Now what am I gonna do? Oh Fifi, you poor thing! Maybe I can reach the passenger door- oh no! That's broken too! Where's my medication? Oh my God- the rear hatch won't open either! Fifi, what are we gonna do? HELP! HEY MISTER! CANT YOU HEAR ME? Maybe the open..opener's manifest.. Mani..mani, I mean Owner's Manual...

There is actually never a logical moment that anyone would stop and say (in their best Dudley Doright voice), "I'm sure the problem is the automated system has failed- there must be a manual override that I must utilize"! Ta Dah!! Yipee! Horay for intuitiveness!

No one should be able to be locked in a vehicle if the door latch fails.

Advan046 wrote: In reply to Basil Exposition: I have found them in the trunk sometimes but won't say I always find them. You never found them?

Nope, but admittedly I never looked for a latch release on the front floor by the driver's seat that would open the secret compartment in the trunk that held the owner's manual.

I build buildings.

It is completely illegal to design a public building that someone can be locked inside of. But most people don't even realize what that means.

For example... You know those big wide release bars that pretty much cover the width of exit doors at waist height? They are called "panic bars". They are designed so that you don't get trampled by a crowd in a panic. If 500 people were trying to exit a burning building, even if you are fully competent at opening doorknobs, you won't be able to. The crowd will push you so hard against the door that the pressure will prevent the latch from releasing, and you will die. A panic bar literally allows a crrowd in a panic to push you through a door that is locked from the outside, even if you are unconscious.

It's not the job of the stressed or panicked individual to think clearly and figure out a better way. It is the job of good designers to design quality fail-safes.

I had a friend die in a fire at the back door of her own house. She couldn't figure out how to unlock the door.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Come on guys, if an electrical cable can 'fall off' or become disconnected then so can a rod in a manual door lock. It's happened to me before and I've had to take a door apart to fix it.

I'll bet a lot of money that I don't have, that if GM uses the same POS plastic door linkage rod retainer clips on the corvettes that they did on other period GM products, a older C5 (and probably on back to the C3 or so) Corvette has door handle failure from a dropped linkage a lot more frequently than a new one does from some weird electrical fault.

SVreX wrote: No one should be able to be locked in a vehicle if the door latch fails.

Maybe we should have an emergency release for the emergency release.

And backup window cranks in case the windows don't go down.

And a hand crank in case the engine won't start.

Kenny_McCormic wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Come on guys, if an electrical cable can 'fall off' or become disconnected then so can a rod in a manual door lock. It's happened to me before and I've had to take a door apart to fix it.

I'll bet a lot of money that I don't have, that if GM uses the same POS plastic door linkage rod retainer clips on the corvettes that they did on other period GM products, a older C5 (and probably on back to the C3 or so) Corvette has door handle failure from a dropped linkage a lot more frequently than a new one does from some weird electrical fault.

And I will bet 1000X as much money that the passenger door manual linkage has never failed at the exact same moment as the driver's.

Unlike electric.

Trans_Maro wrote:

SVreX wrote: No one should be able to be locked in a vehicle if the door latch fails.

Maybe we should have an emergency release for the emergency release. And backup window cranks in case the windows don't go down. And a hand crank in case the engine won't start.

Way to completely and utterly miss the point.

In reply to SVreX:

I got the point.

This isn't mass hysteria, this is one guy getting trapped in his car.

It's sad but it's also a one-in-a-million chance and should be treated as such.

My mother had a guy come through the E.R. who survived a car accident because he wasn't wearing a seatbelt and was pushed into the passenger's side of the car when he got t-boned.

That doesn't make seatbelts unsafe, it makes the guy very lucky.

SVreX wrote: Some of you are just not thinking straight. You are interpreting the problem backwards. snip

Add to that, he is from an era when you didn't have a trunk release inside the car, you had it outside the car. I know my grandpa hasn't used a trunk release at all--he used a key.

In reply to Trans_Maro:

No, you did miss the point.

The point is that to the vast majority of people (elderly, many women, children, non-technical people, handicapped, foreign language speakers, etc) there is no reason to presume a vehicle has a 2nd release mechanism than the one you use everyday that works just fine. If it's broke, it's broke.

It is NOT a 1 in a million chance. It is a majority of users scenario.

It is highly unusual that it has not happened many times before. It will happen again.

SVreX wrote:

Kenny_McCormic wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Come on guys, if an electrical cable can 'fall off' or become disconnected then so can a rod in a manual door lock. It's happened to me before and I've had to take a door apart to fix it.

I'll bet a lot of money that I don't have, that if GM uses the same POS plastic door linkage rod retainer clips on the corvettes that they did on other period GM products, a older C5 (and probably on back to the C3 or so) Corvette has door handle failure from a dropped linkage a lot more frequently than a new one does from some weird electrical fault.

And I will bet 1000X as much money that the passenger door manual linkage has never failed at the exact same moment as the driver's. Unlike electric.

You're talking about people in a panic situation, that passenger door handle, way over on the other side of the car, is arguably even more useless than an emergency release on the driver's side right by the failed handle.

Imagine if there were some sort of advisory material that was included which would have outlined the backup system that this vehicle has built in.

I'm looking at a lathe in my shop right now. The stop button is mounted at my knee. If that button fails, there is a footbrake.

Anyone want to guess how I know about the footbrake?

Why does society have to move at the pace of it's slowest person?

No matter how simple you make something, someone always builds a better idiot.

No it's not.

People in panic look for things that are familiar, not necessarily easy.

They know how to work a door. They will climb over the center console long before they will find an auxiliary door latch.

Many of you are engineers, or at least think a lot like them.

You need to understand more about social and behavioral sciences to design products that will meet the needs of average consumers.

It's not about complaining that someone will always design a better idiot. It's about understanding how people think, and meeting their needs.

It's also about the "better idiot". Why do we insist on coddling the idiots and cheating Darwin?

Now you're whining.

Delivering products people can use is about understanding people, and how they will use your products.

Designing better people is not an option.

Designing products that work better for people is.

Designing products that help make people better is also possible, but not without understanding people.

You can't teach someone to read if you don't first understand that they don't know how to read.