Man dies trapped in Corvette

SVreX wrote: Many of you are engineers, or at least think a lot like them. You need to understand more about social and behavioral sciences to design products that will meet the needs of average consumers. It's not about complaining that someone will always design a better idiot. It's about understanding how people think, and meeting their needs.

Straight mechanical engineers did not make this decision. It was made by the designers and marketers and brand managers. Engineers just make others concepts and designs work(for this specific application). Body stuff, etc.. is all designed and then made to work to the design by an engineer. But everyone blames the engineer for the "poor design".

SVreX wrote: Now you're whining. Delivering products people can use is about understanding people, and how they will use your products. Designing better people is not an option. Designing products that work better for people is. Designing products that help make people better is also possible, but not without understanding people. You can't teach someone to read if you don't first understand that they don't know how to read.

Soapbox much?

Bobzilla wrote: It's also about the "better idiot". Why do we insist on coddling the idiots and cheating Darwin?

I guarantee Mark Zuckerberg never asked that question.

It's not about coddling anyone. It's about meeting their needs. (Not telling them what you think their needs are or should be)

Fueled by Caffeine wrote:

SVreX wrote: Many of you are engineers, or at least think a lot like them. You need to understand more about social and behavioral sciences to design products that will meet the needs of average consumers. It's not about complaining that someone will always design a better idiot. It's about understanding how people think, and meeting their needs.

Straight mechanical engineers did not make this decision. It was made by the designers and marketers and brand managers. Engineers just make others concepts and designs work(for this specific application). Body stuff, etc.. is all designed and then made to work to the design by an engineer. But everyone blames the engineer for the "poor design".

how 'bout the blame falls on the DESIGN engineer ? there you happy now ?

one last observation, then I'm gone … too many self righteous folk in this for me …

for all y'all that claim that you have always read every page of every owners manual for every car you've ever had (first off I call BS … most of y'all/us are buying used cars … few of which still have an owners manual with them)

how many of your wives/girlfriends/children have read every page of every owners manual that they might ever drive ?

Not all older folks are cut out for operating an automobile, moving or otherwise.
Hell, a good portion of young people shouldn't be behind the wheel.
Which isn't to say it's not sad, just that people immediately jumping on the 'ZOMG blame/sue GM for murdering an innocent old man' bandwagon makes me unhappy.
TBH I feel worse about the puppy.

Datsun1500 wrote: How many people made it out of their Corvette just fine this week alone? One death does not make a bad design. A bad design would be if there was no lever at all, much less one right there. Why is no one asking how they "know" he got trapped in the car, and that's the cause of death? Maybe, just maybe, an older guy died while sitting in his car, with the key on, and by the time anyone noticed the battery was dead.... When you hear hoofbeats, don't think Zebras.....

As someone that designs mechanical systems with regards to life safety, I completely disagree. One death is completely unacceptable.

Man, get busy with work for a day and miss the most energetic thread in some time.....

I've never read an owners manual cover to cover, it wouldn't occur to me to even attempt it. Cars are just there and generally intuitive, occasionally they fail at that however and that's when I wonder how a particular design ever got into mainstream production. I like to think I'm a handy guy with good intuition, back in 2009 I test drove a C6 Vette (only time I've ever driven one). The things that stand out about the experience was it's scary desire to get sideways and the door latch system that when I did figure it out pissed me off so much that I told the poor sales guy it was the dumbest berkeleying thing I'd ever seen on a car.

It sucks for the guy and his family, nobody wants to lose a loved one. In the big picture, he was already elderly and fewer consumers on the planet is always a good thing for Mother Earth.

Soo much stoopid in this thread

Trans_Maro wrote:

SVreX wrote: No one should be able to be locked in a vehicle if the door latch fails.

And a hand crank in case the engine won't start.

So you are saying that my MGA is way ahead of its time?

Now that I think of it, there is no latch handle on the outside or inside of the door. But if you can't find the hidden cable you can always climb over the door. The owner's manual is only about 20 pages.

Man, my MGA is safer than a 2007 Corvette! Unless, of course, you actually drive it...

Streetwiseguy wrote: Dumbest. System. Ever. I thought it took a German to design something that stupid.

The Germans did. In the 8 series.

Same electric window design, which must inch down before the door can open or close. It allows a frameless window that doesn't make noise at speed.

This is just an avoidable tragedy.

In reply to yamaha:

As a heads up, seriously in case anyone has a GM, the emergency button for On Star always works, it's like how 911 will contact on an old deactivated cell phone

If you don't have anything to contribute, why post?

DrBoost wrote:

Soo much stoopid in this thread

In reply to SVreX:

God help you then if you ever want in or out of a McLaren MP12-4C........the doors are magnetic lock, and require a motion to open. There probably is a manual release somewhere, but I didn't get the time to find it. I was just babysitting it to keep people from breaking E36 M3 on it.

This is just making something needlessly complicated. Mechanical releases have worked without a backup system since cars got doors. If you have to have two door releases in case one fails you probably have one too many.

I have also never touched an owners manual.

wbjones wrote: one last observation, then I'm gone … too many self righteous folk in this for me … for all y'all that claim that you have always read every page of every owners manual for every car you've ever had (first off I call BS … most of y'all/us are buying used cars … few of which still have an owners manual with them) how many of your wives/girlfriends/children have read every page of every owners manual that they might ever drive ?

Every car I have bought has either had a manual or I have bought a manual for it. Before the internet I went to swap meets and such to find them. The only one I never found was for the 86 GMC pickup. Even the 64 Electra had it's manual. It's just something I like to do. I don't think my wife has ever read anything in an owners manual.

This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread though, I'm just the guy that has read my owners manual cover to cover. Since it was said that no one does.

In reply to wbjones:

No. A designer, an industrial designer is not an engineer. They think they are but they are not. I need to post the 6 red lines video here.

Trans_Maro wrote: If you don't have anything to contribute, why post?

DrBoost wrote: Soo much stoopid in this thread

I didn't want to call specific people out. And I was taxying (sp?) down a runway at the time. Now I'm waiting to get off the plane. I'll post something more better later, but for now I'll reiterate: your door handle should always work, regardless of the integrity of your electrical system. EMS should be able to get in your car without doing the hokey-pokey. It wasnt broke, it should not have been fixed.

captdownshift wrote: In reply to yamaha: As a heads up, seriously in case anyone has a GM, the emergency button for On Star always works, it's like how 911 will contact on an old deactivated cell phone

unless the battery is disconnected?

Is anyone else concerned that a man that lacked the capacity to find the way out of his own car was behind the wheel of a 400hp sports car? I'm willing to bet that he had a contibuting medical emergency that prevented him from getting out of the car. It's tragic, but the headline easily could have been "Man in Corvette drives into Waffle House," or "Wrong way driver plows into minivan."

It's just poor engineering if a 72 year-old can't manage a 400hp sports car.

Always blame the tool.

I didn't know the guy, and I didn't know his dog. Don't really give a E36 M3 about either of them, to be honest. I will tell you, though, that every time I'm thankful the rear seat folds down, so I can crawl into the trunk to access the electrical connector under the interior trim panel, and use my battery pack and a couple of probes to open the goddam trunk lid so I can reach the wires that are broken off in the hinge, I curse engineers, and the people that make them build stupid things.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: In reply to wbjones: No. A designer, an industrial designer is not an engineer. They think they are but they are not. I need to post the 6 red lines video here.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine: Just looked that video up. Wow.

The release graphic was not in the form of a kitten, at least!

pinchvalve wrote: 2. Per the article "the battery started recharging itself enough to be able to roll the window down" Elon Musk, the oil companies, wind farms and solar panel makers are going to be so pissed when they find out that GM has long-ago developed a self-charging battery. This is going to make the P85d the best car ever!

It's a commonly known thing. Any mechanic worth his salt knows that if you have a marginal battery, turn the headlights on for 30 seconds, turn them off, then wait about 30-60 seconds. The battery will gain .5 to .75 volts. That's often enough to start the car, or open a door I guess. Next time you shoot off your sarcasm gun make sure you actually know what you're talking about

I dowloaded the owner's manual for the '07 vette. After talking about the proper way to lock your car, the dangers of not locking your car, the dangers of heat exposure in a closed in car, they do address the secondary release for the door, and provide a picture that looks nothing like the actual lever.

Again, it wasn't broke, don't fix it.