One of the obscure car Facebook groups posted pics of the returning Ford Ranger. It's a medium/large truck.
All of the group members are enthusiasts and there were some who howled for the "good old days" of true compact pickups. I'd like to see an automaker try to fill the niche they're asking for, but it's probably very small and not worth it after an honest cost analysis. Any insiders or enthusiasts here with thoughts on if someone can introduce an S-10 sized pickup in today's market?
Personally I don't think it'd sell. A case of everyone wants one except the people who would buy it. I'd love a hot hatch version of the iM but I'm realistic enough to know it probably wouldn't sell at all.
I love the idea of a small pickup. But I'd never buy one. It seems the larger trucks get just as good mileage. I do miss the old form factor of the Ranger and Tacoma, but I don't think it's coming back.
Erich said:I love the idea of a small pickup. But I'd never buy one. It seems the larger trucks get just as good mileage. I do miss the old form factor of the Ranger and Tacoma, but I don't think it's coming back.
That pretty much sums it up right there. Lots of people would love the idea of one, but very few people would actually buy it
2.3L I-4 only as of now
What about fleets? I see a few businesses with Chinese Tiger Trucks and wonder if a big 3 or Japanese import could serve this market better. Same with side-by-sides. Once they're outfitted with crew cabs and full enclosures, they've got to be $20k new.
I seem to remember a thread on here a while back where the general conclusion was the manufacturing cost would be so close to a full-sized truck that the price difference would be inconsequential. Under that premise most people would perceive the "small" truck as a rip off and just buy the full-size.
I think the only way we would get something like that is in the form of a small ute built on a cheap car. I think the Subaru Baja was close, but they didn't make any stripped down ones and priced themselves out of the demographic that would have bought them new. On the used market they are holding their value amazingly well, proving the demand, but at a price point.
So, take the Focus chassis and make a Transit Connect with an open bed and sell it for Focus like prices and I would be one of those putting my money where my mouth is. All I want for features is ac and cruise, and maybe power locks, so don't pile it up with junk and make it too expensive to justify.
Yeah, you might get away with an Aussie style mini El Camino. It could get very good mileage, but would need to hit around 20k to avoid the obvious step up to one of the current day giant small trucks. Heck I think in many cases the "small" trucks are a hard sell since you can set up to a much larger (giant) mid-sized. I know I don't see many around.
Current owner of an 87 B2000, and that thing will do 95% of what people use their truck for. I can actually see a small child if they stand closer the 5 feet from it!
I love my S10 and my old 85 Toyota pickup was one of the most capable off-roaders I've ever driven. Clean examples of any small truck are getting harder to find and that makes me sad. The new tacomas are within a few inches in every dimension of full size tundras of 15 years ago. I really don't see the point of the midsize trucks when a full size is hardly more money and usually get close to the same mpgs and are *much* more capable when you really need to do truck stuff.
I think a good answer could be had from VW in the form of a new caddy. Keep it fwd like the old ones and base it off the jetta wagon platform and it should be pretty cheap to produce. I don't think it'll happen, but a guy can dream.
Based on Australian Ranger dimensions, the new crew cab Ranger is going to be about 7" longer and 1.5" wider than the old extended cab 4x4 Ranger. Considering the old one's first model year was 1998, the new one has less model bloat than a Civic sedan.
it might be up to the chinese and indian manufacturers then. If they can build enough small trucks for use in 3rd world nations to make it worth while to federalize and bring them over here, they might find their niche.
The min-trucks of the day where some of the cheapest cars you could buy.
Take a Kia Rio, replace with truck body / bed. Sell for $12,000. That could work.
Take a Sonic, replace with truck body/bed, sell for $14,000:
fasted58 said:2.3L I-4 only as of now
Yeah, but being turbocharged it should be comparable to the naturally aspirated v6 options from the competition. The same engine makes something like 280hp/310 ft-lbs in the Explorer, and 310hp/320ft-lbs in the mustang. That torque should come on much lower and last longer than the v6 in the Tacoma or Colorado too.
Casual Six said:Based on Australian Ranger dimensions, the new crew cab Ranger is going to be about 7" longer and 1.5" wider than the old extended cab 4x4 Ranger. Considering the old one's first model year was 1998, the new one has less model bloat than a Civic sedan.
The regular cabs are the ones that got a bit larger beginning in 98. Technically, the extended cab Rangers were the same size all the way from 93 until they stopped production in 2011. Ford got almost 20 years out of the same basic cab design.
After test driving a Nissan Frontier last fall, I'd say it still counts as a compact pickup. While not quite as small as an early S-10 or any of the mintrucks of the 80's, it's definitely not large.
All they have to do is roll back all the safety standards in the US and Canada. There are already all sorts of these, and VW's, and Fords just south of Texas.
Streetwiseguy said:
All they have to do is roll back all the safety standards in the US and Canada. There are already all sorts of these, and VW's, and Fords just south of Texas.
Hideous! But I think I might like it anyway.
I actually wonder if there might be a money making opportunity in utes. On the full size Transit the school bus prep package includes no passenger seat, door, airbag, etc., and it reduces the price of the vehicle by @$4k. If you could get the same kind of thing on a Focus, no rear doors, no trunk lid or hatch, no rear bumper cover or taillights, no interior rear of the B pillars, etc., maybe drop the price below $10k? Then if you had a half dozen big stampings for the tub and cab back that could drop in and get welded up quickly, a tailgate, and rear bumper cover you might be a trip to linex or Rhino linings away from a ute. Somewhere in China is the factory that stamps out all those cheap replacement fenders and stuff, if they can make money on a $35 Honda fender the almost fits they can make money on the metal stamped truck floor, sides, and bed front.
I wonder just how expensive it would be, and if you could push them out the door and make money for under $20k?
Streetwiseguy said:
I know these don’t meet US crash standards but I think that’s a symptom of the manufacturing and not of the form factor. If Sonics and Rios are crash safe, a pickup version could be as well.
You can buy a 70s datsun truck brand new in Iran. It has ABS too. Zamyad 24.
I really need a car 95% of the time, but love my ranger for some reason. Since it’s small I can use it easily like a car most of the time. If I need to tow something big I can rent or borrow. I drive my ranger like a focus with a bed. With the 2.3 duratec and manual trans I get high 20’s.
It would be interesting to see if a ute based on one of those cheap hatches would sell. My gut feeling is it wouldn't but I'd love to see a car maker try.
Supposedly, Hyundai is moving forward with the Santa Fe trucklet.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-hyundai-santa-cruz-pickup-almost-ready/
Yes, the article is from 2016 but I'm pretty sure they still want to put it into production.
Streetwiseguy said:
Seems the Chevy one is based on some ancient platform and does indeed crash terribly. I wonder if any of the competition is on a more modern world platform, then it'd only be a matter of federalizing it from the parts bin, building facilities to knock them down and reassemble them to work around the chicken tax(which probably makes things too uneconomical and trashes the whole idea), and marketing it.
I always though it'd be cool if Ford brought back the Econoline truck as a cut up Transit Connect, that's probably more feasible.
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